DCTs - Why do you like them?

[Pegasi]

I haven't had the opportunity to really drive a lot of cars. I have never driven a DCT. I just wanted to hear from forum members why they like them. I understand if you are trying to set lap times you want the fastest shift as possible. But just kickin around back roads, what do you like about DCTs? This is not a DCT vs manual question. I just want to hear why people like them since I have never driven one. And of course I would like to hear how you think it will go with the Emiras handling and "free revving" I4. Gavan did mention the I4 is free revving. That coupled with a fast DCT...

 

[Magma]

To be honest, besides the quicker shifts, sometimes the DCT can be a bit... Clunky. Especially noticeable when you start outnfrom a stop. And my PDK had some weird hesitations sometimes.
Not having a DCT wouldn't be a deal breaker for me for just a daily driving car.

 

[JimH]

I've had several VAG group DCT's and they're as smooth as silk, but extremely fast on both upshifts and downshifts - however I've also had a P**sch* B*x**er with DCT which was as clunky as described above.....

The reviews of the AMG DCT in the A45S seem to be OK.....

 

[Tonyshepp]

I haven't had the opportunity to really drive a lot of cars. I have never driven a DCT. I just wanted to hear from forum members why they like them. I understand if you are trying to set lap times you want the fastest shift as possible. But just kickin around back roads, what do you like about DCTs? This is not a DCT vs manual question. I just want to hear why people like them since I have never driven one. And of course I would like to hear how you think it will go with the Emiras handling and "free revving" I4. Gavan did mention the I4 is free revving. That coupled with a fast DCT...

I've got an 2013 M3 DCT, admittedly based on the 2010 DCT box BMW brought out, and I like it. DCT is as good as an auto in town (stop start traffic) and gives me greater control then an auto when using the paddles as i have complete control as to when i change gear. I was going for an I4, because as a daily I'd say this is a better option(better than the V6 with the auto gearbox - in my opinion) for a daily but as mine is a third car I've gone for manual. BUT may change my mind in a few years for the I4.

If its a daily, to avoid the grind of stop start traffic I'd go for an auto Emira of some kind (V6 or It4).

 

[fishman76092]

I’ve had a couple of DCTs - the PDK in a 2013 991.1 S and the M-DCT in a2013 E93 M3. They were both a huge step up from the SMG I had in a 2003 E46 M3. Both are 7+ year old technology as compared to today’s DCTs - so my opinions are somewhat dated. They were each very different. The M3 felt like an automated manual, where you had to push the accelerator to get it to go and you could hear/feel the clutch engaging. The PDK felt like an automatic - when you took your foot off of the brake, it would idle forward, etc. The shifts were fast, as expected, and I don’t remember them to be consistently clunky. From time to time, they were.

I thought they were the way to go for an ‘automatic’ moving forward until I bought an ‘18 Alfa Giulia QV with the ZF 8-speed. I thought it shifted as quickly (or faster than DCTs I had), but was smoother when you wanted to cruise around town.

The Emira is a third car for me, so I’m going MT V6. If I was going ‘auto’, I’d still go with the Toyota sourced motor. I care about reliability and the somewhat analog driving experience (with a nice interior) than how fast it is. If I wanted a faster car, I’d buy a C8, a 917 GT4/Spyder, or a 911.

 

[freefall_junkie]

I've driven thousand of miles in assorted VAG cars with the DSG 6 or 7 speed box: T6 Transporter, Seat Leon, VW Golf, Passat & Skoda Superb. It is ok, but no more than that. It isn't quite as smooth as a good auto in stop start traffic, and of course not as engaging as a manual, so in some ways it is the worst of all worlds. I reckon the best torque converter autos are now a better compromise than a DCT, delivering snappy shifts and greater refinement. The 8 speed ZF in my BMW F31, for example, is much nicer to drive than the DSG in my wife's Superb. Add to that DCT boxes in general are more complex and heavier and I really struggle to see the point. Interesting that BMW have ditched the DCT and gone back to a torque converter auto for the latest M3. I am going for a manual Emira anyway, but If I wanted an auto I'd be keen to try the V6 with the Aisin torque converter box next to an I4 DCT before committing.

 

[Nova]

DCT used to have a distinct advantage in faster shifts. However, modern torque converter automatic transmissions also shift very quickly and the advantages are diminishing. One downside with DCT is that because it uses clutch packs for engaging/coupling, low speed shifts in start/stop traffic can be very clunky as the transmission juggles between partial/full coasting, 1st, and 2nd gear. Driving dynamics aside, DCT is more fuel-efficient and can be made smaller/lighter. The packaging can be done much more efficiently both in terms of space and weight.

 

[DaaS]

Pretty much agree with everyone above. I've experienced many traditional autos and recent PDK from Porsche and DCT from BMW, as well as ZF in recent BMW products. I was a manual guy, who went DCT route because it provided some mechanical cluckiness which gave the car personality and quirks. It also shifted quicker than a stick and IMO was a better match for turbo charged engines as you can bang through gears without dropping boost. ZF with good programming is essentially as fast as DCT, but smoother in all situations (which takes away the personality).

I recently purchased an Evora GT with an auto. It feels closer to a DCT than a ZF because it is a bit clunky and mechanical feeling. Engine/transmission combo does not feel free-revving. It upshifts slightly slower than DCT and ZF, but I don't care at all. The overall car is raw/analog and I cannot imagine a smooth sailing transmission in this car. It would ruin the analog experience and the total package.

 

[FederGigant]

If you get the "sport automatic" in a BMW, you can switch off the load shock absorption (I have no clue what the correct English term is and translated it word by word). If you shift under full throttle, the upshift is super quick and feels very hard. I don't know a DCT which does this, the are way smoother on upshift (which I don't like at all). On the other hand, if you are cruising or doing start/stop action, the Auto does a way better job than any DCT on being smooth. All in all, from what I have driven, a good Auto is better than a DCT (in every aspect except shifting speed, which is completely irrelevant, because the difference is probably in the area of 20 to 50 milliseconds).

 

[Magma]

Ya, I wouldn't buy a car just for a DCT. The ZF is awesome.

 

[TomE]

DCT is as good as an auto in town (stop start traffic) and gives me greater control then an auto when using the paddles as i have complete control as to when i change gear.

Bear in mind the IPS/auto on the Evora and Emira in Sport mode gives you complete control. Manual paddle shift determines what gear you’re in, unless you’re about to stall.

 

[Tonyshepp]

I don’t doubt that the ZF 8 speed auto is great but how can an old 6;speed auto be compared to a modern DCT gearbox. If the V6 auto was a ZF 8 speed it would be a compelling buy. A torque converter takes power to drive it a DCT is much more efficient.. BMW went for the ZF 8 speed box as it handles greater torque. I’ve had a ZF 6 speed auto and as good as it was it wasn’t as good as the dct box. Maybe now things have changed with the 8 speed box but Lotus aren’t offering this box.

 

[FederGigant]

But you also have to keep in mind that Lotus isn't using a ZF Box, but a 6-Speed Aisin. The are really good as well and can do great feeling upshifts as well. The Mercedes DCTs I drove were really horrible and the worst that I know. To be fair, those were in 2017 cars and non AMG. I hope they are doing better now.

 

[Pegasi]

Great responses. If you watch car videos all you hear is DCT, DCT, DCT. The ZF-8 is an awesome transmission I can say that from experience. I am quite exited about any real car review for the Emira, but the I4 DCT especially since that is a new setup.

 

[Watstone]

I am amazed about the anxiety about the ( new I4 with DCT.
For goodness sake !
It's not bloody new, it's the current set up in the AMG 45.
Take a test drive and be prepared to be impressed !!!

 

[Nova]

All of the anxiety is due to lack of additional information. People want something to think about.

 

[Watstone]

All of the anxiety is due to lack of additional information. People want something to think about.

I was being polite when I wrote anxiety. For some people it seems to be a total ignorance of Lotus, performance cars and the motor industry in general. Some of the questions not only about the DCT but other technical aspects are something one would expect from over grown schoolboys.

 

[Singularity]

But you also have to keep in mind that Lotus isn't using a ZF Box, but a 6-Speed Aisin. The are really good as well and can do great feeling upshifts as well. The Mercedes DCTs I drove were really horrible and the worst that I know. To be fair, those were in 2017 cars and non AMG. I hope they are doing better now.

I'm running an AMG 45 with the 7 speed DCT at present and have owned a few VAG models with it in (R32 / TTS). I can honestly say the AMG is the equal of them in shifting speed and probably slightly better in terms of predicting the changes if left to it's own devices. I guess the latter is not surprising since the software these things run has become a lot more sophisticated. AMG have had quite a few years with this pairing of engine and 'box and the evolution shows.

The 'box also reacts to your driving style; when I'm pressing on it hangs onto the higher revs for longer expecting another throttle response. If I 'calm down' then eventually it settles back (I'm also sure I hear it grumbling that the fun is over ). Changing the drive mode settings increases the sensitivity and the 'average' rpm the the gearbox holds the engine at. In 'race' mode it pretty much keeps it spinning up near the rev limiter.

I occasionally throw it into full manual mode but more often just swap the drive modes since I'm often after a sharper throttle response from the more aggressive modes anyway.

Not quite the same as the tactile feel of a manual shift and the satisfaction of perfect upshifting/downshifting using a clutch an I sometimes have a pang of nostalgia for a more 'involved' drive, but I have to say for 95% of the time I'm perfectly happy and even happier when I'm sitting in traffic queues.

 

[Pegasi]

I was being polite when I wrote anxiety. For some people it seems to be a total ignorance of Lotus, performance cars and the motor industry in general. Some of the questions not only about the DCT but other technical aspects are something one would expect from over grown schoolboys.

I am totally ignorant to Lotus and DCTs. No personal experience with either. I have learned a lot from this forum and my own research since placing my deposit.

 

[Nova]

I was being polite when I wrote anxiety. For some people it seems to be a total ignorance of Lotus, performance cars and the motor industry in general. Some of the questions not only about the DCT but other technical aspects are something one would expect from over grown schoolboys.

I hear what you are saying, but we all have to start from somewhere. Some of us are coming into things a little later in life. My high school kids have almost no interest in cars, which makes me a little sad, but maybe they'll be more into it later? I don't know.