Does it turn differently than a 911?

[luciddaydream]

Hi there

I am used to driving 911s, and I love the Emira.

But I find mine a bit unusual when it comes to turns.

I'm no car expert or professional driver, so forgive me.

I hope this makes sense:

Imagine I am exiting a highway on a cloverleaf. I take a right and I am taking the turn at a moderate speed.

It seems like when I take the turn in a 911, the nose is right in the turn. I aim it, and it's there.

But with the Emira, the nose feels like it's pointed more out of the turn (straight ahead).

I hope I explained this ok. For some reason that was hard for me to explain

Is this normal with Lotus Emiras? Is it something I can adjust, or will I just get used to it?

Thanks a ton.

 

[GetawayDriving]

Does the 911 have 4-wheel steering?

 

[seriously]

feels like you are describing understeer. The emira should be similar, not the same, to a 911 given the weight distribution. Certainly moreso than any front engined car. However if you feel like the nose isn’t where it’s supposed to be maybe you are experiencing understeer and actually entering the corner with too much speed. Or like the poster above 4 wheel steer.

 

[GetawayDriving]

Could also be Porsche Torque Vectoring. The 911, if equipped, will apply light brake pressure to the inside rear wheel to help corner rotation. I'd guess you're feeling that, 4 wheel steering, or both.

 

[luciddaydream]

Could also be Porsche Torque Vectoring. The 911, if equipped, will apply light brake pressure to the inside rear wheel to help corner rotation. I'd guess you're feeling that, 4 wheel steering, or both.

Shoot, now that I think about it, yes, it has both of those.

Are there any ways I can make the Emira more like that?

 

[Blackthought_]

Shoot, now that I think about it, yes, it has both of those.

Are there any ways I can make the Emira more like that?

Why would you want 2 different cars to drive the exact same way? It’s like you are trying to have 2 Porsches

 

[GetawayDriving]

Hard to simulate those, but you could help the car rotate with a sharper alignment that dials out some understeer. That may need upgraded adjustable control arms. These are popular mods on Elige, but I'm not sure anyone is offering for Emira yet. Still not sure this will make the car point in a different direction, just improve turn-in.

 

[Adam Brouillard]

You said moderate speed, so I'm assuming we are talking about sublimit behavior here and you aren't actually at the understeer or oversteer limit in the cars. In that case it's possible you are noticing the different wheelbase lengths as this is the only thing that affects what you are describing. The Emira has a longer wheelbase than a 911 so its angle will be less for a given turn radius. Think about how the back end of a bus with an extremely long wheelbase tracks to the inside of a corner. The difference between a 911 and Emira would be small, but it's possible you are picking up on it.

I notice you said the porsche has 4 wheel steer as well. I'm not sure how porsche has this programmed, but this effectively allows the car to dynamically change wheelbase length. If the rear tires are steered out of the turn (typically for low speed driving) it's the same as a shorter wheelbase. If the rear tires are steered into the turn, it effectively makes the wheelbase longer.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with the car having more or less angle in the turn. There are tradeoffs to wheelbase length at the limit (stability vs response), and the angle in relation to the turn would work differently anyway once the rear tires are at a high slip angle.

 

[KCMO68_510]

Shoot, now that I think about it, yes, it has both of those.

Are there any ways I can make the Emira more like that?

Yes. Trade it in for a Porsche and it will be exactly like a Porsche.

 

[seriously]

I like these conversations. Interesting to learn from others.

IMHO I consider 4 wheel steer and torque vectoring and the like to be a bit of a cheat. It becomes its own thing like 4wd that can be cool in a way but it can also feel unnatural. You expect the car to do X and didn’t know it could do Y. I suppose you learn and adapt.

 

[Eagle7]

Hi there

I am used to driving 911s, and I love the Emira.

But I find mine a bit unusual when it comes to turns.

I'm no car expert or professional driver, so forgive me.

I hope this makes sense:

Imagine I am exiting a highway on a cloverleaf. I take a right and I am taking the turn at a moderate speed.

It seems like when I take the turn in a 911, the nose is right in the turn. I aim it, and it's there.

But with the Emira, the nose feels like it's pointed more out of the turn (straight ahead).

I hope I explained this ok. For some reason that was hard for me to explain

Is this normal with Lotus Emiras? Is it something I can adjust, or will I just get used to it?

Thanks a ton.

Which chassis (Tour or Sport) and which tires do you have? That could affect things. A little more toe-in on the front will give it a sharper turn-in, but that will also increase the tire wear. It would probably make the car more sensitive in a straight line to tram-lining and ridges/grooves in the road too.

It's a different car. My recommendation is to adjust your driving technique instead of trying to make the car handle like a Porsche. It would probably be worth going to a track on an HPDE day, and experimenting with techniques to get a feel of what the car can do without risking doing that on the street. You can use higher gearing and the throttle in a corner to mildly introduce some oversteer. The car is already rear biased so there's ways to take advantage of that in the corners (or get yourself in trouble quickly if you aren't used to it). It's a momentum car, and they're different than a horsepower car.

 

[KAR120C]

Hi there

I am used to driving 911s, and I love the Emira.

But I find mine a bit unusual when it comes to turns.

I'm no car expert or professional driver, so forgive me.

I hope this makes sense:

Imagine I am exiting a highway on a cloverleaf. I take a right and I am taking the turn at a moderate speed.

It seems like when I take the turn in a 911, the nose is right in the turn. I aim it, and it's there.

But with the Emira, the nose feels like it's pointed more out of the turn (straight ahead).

I hope I explained this ok. For some reason that was hard for me to explain

Is this normal with Lotus Emiras? Is it something I can adjust, or will I just get used to it?

Thanks a ton.

I think the important question is not how the nose looks, but how it’s actually responding. If the car is taking the corner at the same speed and you are not experiencing understeer, then it’s just a visual thing and you’ll get used to it.

 

[cyanmauve]

Maybe you just like the feel of the Porsche better?

In which case, good for you for being able to identify specifically what you like better. That’s easier said than done.

 

[trackday14]

I spend (and have spent) a lot of time on track…4-wheel steering and torque vectoring make a tremendous difference. You can have a reputable race or exotic shop dial the car in a bit (i.e., more camber). Also, tires make a difference. What do you have on the 911? If you have Goodyears on the Emira, they do not turn in as well as the Cup 2 tires. Furthermore, your driving style matters…My experience with 911 ownership (I’ve had a 997.1 and a 997.2) is that they understeer a lot sooner than comparable mid-engine cars, but I haven’t owned anything newer than a 2011.

 

[luciddaydream]

Which chassis (Tour or Sport) and which tires do you have? That could affect things. A little more toe-in on the front will give it a sharper turn-in, but that will also increase the tire wear. It would probably make the car more sensitive in a straight line to tram-lining and ridges/grooves in the road too.

It's a different car. My recommendation is to adjust your driving technique instead of trying to make the car handle like a Porsche. It would probably be worth going to a track on an HPDE day, and experimenting with techniques to get a feel of what the car can do without risking doing that on the street. You can use higher gearing and the throttle in a corner to mildly introduce some oversteer. The car is already rear biased so there's ways to take advantage of that in the corners (or get yourself in trouble quickly if you aren't used to it). It's a momentum car, and they're different than a horsepower car.

Ok thanks.

I have sport suspension but I have the Goodyears. I wish I would've gotten the other ones.

I like these conversations. Interesting to learn from others.

IMHO I consider 4 wheel steer and torque vectoring and the like to be a bit of a cheat. It becomes its own thing like 4wd that can be cool in a way but it can also feel unnatural. You expect the car to do X and didn’t know it could do Y. I suppose you learn and adapt.

Yeah, I have had a 997, 991, and 992. The 997 was great and analog, and the 991 I think had the torque vectoring. I think the 992 has torque vectoring and rear wheel steering. The car is very very capable, but felt a bit disconnected because of all the things it does for you.. so that is why I wanted to go to an Emira. I still have the 992 but to be finanically smart I probably should sell it (or the Emira).. but the Emira is just more of an interesting and emotional car .. hmm..

 

[luciddaydream]

I spend (and have spent) a lot of time on track…4-wheel steering and torque vectoring make a tremendous difference. You can have a reputable race or exotic shop dial the car in a bit (i.e., more camber). Also, tires make a difference. What do you have on the 911? If you have Goodyears on the Emira, they do not turn in as well as the Cup 2 tires. Furthermore, your driving style matters…My experience with 911 ownership (I’ve had a 997.1 and a 997.2) is that they understeer a lot sooner than comparable mid-engine cars, but I haven’t owned anything newer than a 2011.

Yes I have the Sports but with Goodyears. I wish I had the Cup 2s!

 

[luciddaydream]

I think the important question is not how the nose looks, but how it’s actually responding. If the car is taking the corner at the same speed and you are not experiencing understeer, then it’s just a visual thing and you’ll get used to it.

Yep, could simply be a visual thing.

 

[digilotus]

What you describe is definitely referencing understeer. The weight balance of the Emira is very similar to a 911 (roughly 40:60 front:rear) but it does have a significantly higher centre of mass. Depending upon model variant of the 911, as has been referenced above, some torque vectoring and 4 wheel steering can help make a rear weight biased car feel more neutral. The Emira has none of these features. It is definitely possible to reduce understeer through more agressive wheel alignment to some extent and your dealer should be able to dial out some of the understeer through more track oriented alignment settings.

The FE version of the Emira is designed as a GT car, and therefore I expect that a level of understeer has been added for safety (to make it more accessible for inexperienced drivers).

 

[luciddaydream]

The weight balance of the Emira is very similar to a 911 (roughly 40:60 front:rear) but it does have a significantly higher centre of mass

Thank you.

Do you mean the weight of the engine is higher up on the Emira?

Because the overall car is definitetly lower.

 

[seriously]

Yes I have the Sports but with Goodyears. I wish I had the Cup 2s!

Easy change