Emira v 911 (992T)

[meldog]

Thanks for letting me join the forum.

Hope the owners who have received there cars are enjoying them.

I currently have a 718 Cayman and have a 911 (992 C2 or a 992T) on order, deposit was placed December 2021, still awaiting allocation.

Just wondering if anyone was considering going from a Cayman to an Emira, and has driven on. Interested to know your thoughts and expereinces. I do fancy the 911 I have on order but I could save circa £25k (which I would use towards a new daily driver).

The car will be used for about 6-8k during the year, mixed driving. No track days.

The shape, styling and engine of the Emira is something I quite fancy but slightly worried by some views on Lotus customer service and reliability.

I know waiting times are approx 60 weeks+ (that doesn't worry me given I have waited 12 months for a 911, which I haven't got yet). The Cayman isn't a bad car to be driving around in. I also have a Mini Cooper S R56 and a Porsche Taycan.

Any decent dealers within the Northwest of England that would be worth popping into?

Thanks for reading

 

[Cachaco131]

If you want high end German customer service, trouble free service/maintenance, expanded dealer network ...look elsewhere. Lotus will be a fun, unique car that comes with compromises. I would not recommend as a only car. I don't care about those things so they are secondary to me.

 

[New to Lotus]

That's the main reason I've cancelled and gone for the 992 t.

 

[DJS]

That's the main reason I've cancelled and gone for the 992 t.

The 992 T is an excellent choice but Porsche still don't have a single build slot for 2023 so could be in for a long wait. But hey ain't that what we've all been doing for the last 2 years.

 

[New to Lotus]

Exactly what's another year.

 

[912Matt]

I’m coming from a Cayman to an Emira (and also have a 992T on order with Silverstone). My review from the test drive thread is copied below in case of interest:
‘Not a huge amount to add after my drive in Silverstone’s Magma/ice/touring car this week. The one thing I will say is that, coming from a Cayman, the overall experience felt more theatrical. Partly down to the manual gearbox, but also the noise of the supercharger, the handling feel ,the view in those lovely wing mirrors. Can’t say it felt any faster than my Cayman (although on paper it is), but it certainly doesn’t feel underpowered , and the overall experience just felt more involving, more of an ‘event’, which is exactly what I was hoping for, compared to the Porsche which is very capable, but dare I say it, maybe a bit boring in comparison.’
Current thinking is to run the Emira until the 992 is ready. As said above, potential reliability/customer service issues mean I can’t see me keeping the Lotus long-term, although I really want to run it for a while as I’m sure it will be an experience! The 992 will then be my last ICE ‘keeper’.

 

[roundincircles]

If you buy a Lotus, then be prepared to deal with the service/warranty issues by spending time via email, telephone, and at the agent. Porsche is a doddle in comparison. My 5 or so Porkers have all had warranty claims for various issues but no quibbles, from the engine out to replacement dash assembly.

The 718 is an excellent, well-sorted car with a great engine and sophisticated drivetrain and Stella brakes. The Lotus Emira I drove had linear power delivery but lacked punch compared to the 718 (boxer 6), which also lacked engine/noise drama. The brakes were grabby but very effective.....and the steering best in class without a doubt, unless you trade up to a Mclaren.

A test drive is a must.

 

[Grumpy]

992 and Emira very different cars now. 992 is a masterpiece of complex engineering, rides very well, engine muted without sports exhaust but then sounds good when stretched. Interior design and quality is very good. Certainly in most forms it is brutally quick when required and feels much quicker than the Emira. Now getting too big, albeit the Emira is wider so on B roads neither are ‘compact’.

The Emira looks great and is a fair whack cheaper, but is much simpler from an engineering point of view. Engine noise is not the best, sadly not like an Evora. Supercharger whine is ok for a bit but gets a bit wearing. Interior design is nice, but not in the same league . The infotainment screen is dull and surprisingly laggy and changing between drive modes is a slightly slow two stage process, what is that about? Emira feels smaller and more pointy and from an enthusiast point of view has the best steering bar none - incredibly well tied down, but does make it feel as if it could handle much more power. The Emira has a manual whereas almost any low mileage 992 is PDK and apart from the T I think its almost impossible to get a manual in the current 992 model as there is no capacity and Porsche have been removing options on some cars.

Both cars will have had recalls the Lotus is very new so more currently to the fore, albeit all fixable. That said the boot design with water emptying through the engine bay is design over engineering and a bit of a nonsense if not a major problem. Seatbelts failing is unforgivable. Steering servo failures etc. I hope its just teething problems and not a reflection of using cheaper low quality parts.

Looks wise the Emira is the current head turner, but the 911 shape is iconic - will still look good in 20 years time - they always do. The Emira has a manual and the steering with the most feedback. I do wonder if quality niggles and the supercharger whine may reduce its appeal after a year of ownership. The 992 is two cars in one as in normal it cruises effortlessly but in Sport + its brutal. Add a Cabriolet and it does three roles. For long road trips I’d probably rather be in the 992.

If not comparing with the 911T and comparing with the 718 in GTS form its much closer. A few of the same points apply and the GTS is manual and can be had as the boxster - It has flexibility. Interior of 718 very nice if a little more dated but switches are good! I’d probably take the Emira over any Cayman, but more difficult over the boxster GTS manual 4.0 (which is quieter than the cayman). That said highly unlikely you will now be able to get the Boxster in that form as order lists are long and very few coming through And of course gear ratios are toooooo long (Yawn).

 

[Tonyshepp]

992 and Emira very different cars now. 992 is a masterpiece of complex engineering, rides very well, engine muted without sports exhaust but then sounds good when stretched. Interior design and quality is very good. Certainly in most forms it is brutally quick when required and feels much quicker than the Emira. Now getting too big, albeit the Emira is wider so on B roads neither are ‘compact’.

The Emira looks great and is a fair whack cheaper, but is much simpler from an engineering point of view. Engine noise is not the best, sadly not like an Evora. Supercharger whine is ok for a bit but gets a bit wearing. Interior design is nice, but not in the same league . The infotainment screen is dull and surprisingly laggy and changing between drive modes is a slightly slow two stage process, what is that about? Emira feels smaller and more pointy and from an enthusiast point of view has the best steering bar none - incredibly well tied down, but does make it feel as if it could handle much more power. The Emira has a manual whereas almost any low mileage 992 is PDK and apart from the T I think its almost impossible to get a manual in the current 992 model as there is no capacity and Porsche have been removing options on some cars.

Both cars will have had recalls the Lotus is very new so more currently to the fore, albeit all fixable. That said the boot design with water emptying through the engine bay is design over engineering and a bit of a nonsense if not a major problem. Seatbelts failing is unforgivable. Steering servo failures etc. I hope its just teething problems and not a reflection of using cheaper low quality parts.

Looks wise the Emira is the current head turner, but the 911 shape is iconic - will still look good in 20 years time - they always do. The Emira has a manual and the steering with the most feedback. I do wonder if quality niggles and the supercharger whine may reduce its appeal after a year of ownership. The 992 is two cars in one as in normal it cruises effortlessly but in Sport + its brutal. Add a Cabriolet and it does three roles. For long road trips I’d probably rather be in the 992.

If not comparing with the 911T and comparing with the 718 in GTS form its much closer. A few of the same points apply and the GTS is manual and can be had as the boxster - It has flexibility. Interior of 718 very nice if a little more dated but switches are good! I’d probably take the Emira over any Cayman, but more difficult over the boxster GTS manual 4.0 (which is quieter than the cayman). That said highly unlikely you will now be able to get the Boxster in that form as order lists are long and very few coming through And of course gear ratios are toooooo long (Yawn).

Does the supercharger really whine that much? Doesn't the 911 use cardboard for soundproofing as all reviews of 911' always point to the interior road noise being high.

 

[Grumpy]

The whine builds but there during normal driving. 997’s were very noisy, but 992 is much quieter.

 

[Tonyshepp]

The whine builds but there during normal driving. 997’s were very noisy, but 992 is much quieter.

Though not as quiet inside as an Emira - according to Harrys early video where he tested a stretch of noise and the 992 was noisier than both the sport and touring Emira.

 

[digilotus]

The 992T is even noisier than your typical 911.

 

[DJS]

Potential build slots coming up for the Carrera 911 T Potentially May delivery my Emira is currently June but that could mean Christmas, a really tough decision knowing both could let me down but more likely to be Lotus.

Or take the Emira and hold out for the 992 gen 11 at the end of the year/2024 by then my Emira might be delivered and tried and tested.

You know the expression, you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

Still miss the good old days of enjoying buying a car.

 

[Grumpy]

Potential build slots coming up for the Carrera 911 T Potentially May delivery my Emira is currently June but that could mean Christmas, a really tough decision knowing both could let me down but more likely to be Lotus.

Or take the Emira and hold out for the 992 gen 11 at the end of the year/2024 by then my Emira might be delivered and tried and tested.

You know the expression, you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

Still miss the good old days of enjoying buying a car.

I’ve just cancelled my Emira and should have my T confirmation in a couple of weeks. The T will be non hybrid, but 992.2 will be hybrid and I don’t want Hybrid and all the extra weight. It’s not clear if all 992.2’s will be but the platform has been engineered to take a battery behind the rear seats and an electric motor to the front axle so suspect that might be the case. I kind of want to have a last all fuel 911 Hence taking the T in preference.

 

[Grumpy]

Though not as quiet inside as an Emira - according to Harrys early video where he tested a stretch of noise and the 992 was noisier than both the sport and touring Emira.

Noise is relative and 992’s have road noise but to my ears the Emira is definitely louder .

 

[695 to Emira]

I’ve just cancelled my Emira and should have my T confirmation in a couple of weeks. The T will be non hybrid, but 992.2 will be hybrid and I don’t want Hybrid and all the extra weight. It’s not clear if all 992.2’s will be but the platform has been engineered to take a battery behind the rear seats and an electric motor to the front axle so suspect that might be the case. I kind of want to have a last all fuel 911 Hence taking the T in preference.

When did your T deposit go in? I think I will be lucky if I get one and don’t want a hybrid.

Earlier poster should cancel the T and buy the Emira .

 

[Cachaco131]

I’ve just cancelled my Emira and should have my T confirmation in a couple of weeks. The T will be non hybrid, but 992.2 will be hybrid and I don’t want Hybrid and all the extra weight. It’s not clear if all 992.2’s will be but the platform has been engineered to take a battery behind the rear seats and an electric motor to the front axle so suspect that might be the case. I kind of want to have a last all fuel 911 Hence taking the T in preference.

You mean the 992.2 T will be hybrid? Maybe I should join a queue before that happens. Despite my ongoing frustration with what Porsche ownership represents

 

[695 to Emira]

You mean the 992.2 T will be hybrid? Maybe I should join a queue before that happens. Despite my ongoing frustration with what Porsche ownership represents

That’s the rumour. GT cars not impacted, and maybe also ‘lesser’ cars could also escape hybridisation. Let’s hope it is a trickle down upgrade so the 992.2T escapes it.

 

[Concept24]

I would thing that at cruising speed there is no supercharger whine in the Emira, so for distance driving, that would be a moot point?

 

[Lotustoronto]

You mean the 992.2 T will be hybrid? Maybe I should join a queue before that happens. Despite my ongoing frustration with what Porsche ownership represents

I’ve just cancelled my Emira and should have my T confirmation in a couple of weeks. The T will be non hybrid, but 992.2 will be hybrid and I don’t want Hybrid and all the extra weight. It’s not clear if all 992.2’s will be but the platform has been engineered to take a battery behind the rear seats and an electric motor to the front axle so suspect that might be the case. I kind of want to have a last all fuel 911 Hence taking the T in preference.

So... my take from watching/reading the latest from Porsche's director of sports cars is that they will keep the 911 ICE until min 2030. They are not confident in 992 body style being efficient enough for a hybrid. So the 992.2 I would be very surprised if they introduce a hybrid.

Every auto manufacturer needs to sell a certain amount of EV / reduce carbon footprint. This is why you are seeing everyone introduce some type of hybrid/electric models. If not they get charged and are forced to pay a penalty. EV only companies profit greatly from this i.e. Tesla.

What 'regulatory credits' are â and why they're so important to Tesla

Tesla's reliance on credits has been thrust back into the spotlight after investor Michael Burry took a $534 million short position against the carmaker.

www.cnbc.com

This is the reason you can be guaranteed the 718 will be going electric in 2025. Pretty much confirmed by Porsche. They need the EV credits to continue selling ICE 911 at all costs. Macan will be next with an EV.

My opinion on EV's going forward is that all "luxury" cars will be considered as EV. (outside of a small amount of enthusiast vehicles, built in small numbers) The reason pure EV probably won't trickle into the affordable car segment is because the infrastructure in big cities and higher density locations won't have the ability to charge all of these cars for many many years, if ever. EV's are best with home owners that have a garage or space to install home charging systems. Obviously, not everyone can afford 100K + EV's, but even today if you look at what the cheapest EV on the market is probably double or triple the price of the cheapest ICE vehicle. They are also banking on companies like UBER to go green faster and reduce the need for auto ownership in major city centres.(autonomous driving / EV's) Mobility will be a bit different come 2035, I think. How it all plays out, nobody knows. But for now, I think Porsche will continue to pump out ICE 911's for at least another 6 years. After that.... it's all up in the air.