I4 shift time difference by drive mode

[Jdmc21]

Now we’ve had some time to digest the recent batch of I4 reviews, I wonder if there’s some software nuance that’s missing from the discussion. I’m coming up on 2 years as an I4 depositor.

Generally the I4 reviews are mixed, just like those for the V6. Positive overall, but wanting more power and faster shifts, or expressing a clear preference for the manual. For me for this car, it had to be a DCT (or maybe a modern ZF auto that’s everywhere, but that’s not what Lotus used.) Respect to the manual crowd, but if you don’t want a manual transmission “I like manuals more and they’re increasingly rare” isn’t relevant criticism. We’re all upset about the de tune and the China 400hp I4 semi “verified” rumor.

While we’ve long known and griped about the engine detune, the transmission being slow is quite a surprise, given the A45 application and that fast shifts with continuous torque is the whole point of a DCT. Many speak to a software fix, which could come one of 4 ways:

1) Lotus adjusts it prior to delivery or in an update. (Unlikely, as they’re making them now and I think these latest reviews are from production cars, vs the original v6 reviews.)

2) Lotus makes an Emira S or R with faster shifting and more HP. (Will happen, just a question of when. I don’t want to wait.

3) Lotus sells an aftermarket I4 power kit. (Wishful thinking and the ideal scenario imo, but hey Volvo had a polestar tune that fundamentally changed how my xc90 drives, from dad mobile to slightly fun dad mobile.)

4) Komotec et al. Come out with an engine and transmission ecu flash for those of us bold enough to void the warranty of a brand new LOTUS.

Maybe we’re missing some included software.

In all of this, I’m wondering if the reviews compared the shift speed in different drive modes. We know the default tour is neutered for emissions/mileage requirements and that the sport and track have faster throttle, louder exhaust etc. Many sports cars with DCTs/autos have more aggressive transmission settings on sportier drive modes. I presume the Emira does also.

Some of the reviews said auto mode shifts were fast, but manual shifts were slow for a DCT. Would sport/track change the speed of “manual” DCT shifts?

I could see myself driving around in track 90% of the time if addresses this fundamental complaint.

I’ll be in the komotec crowd by the time by the time my warranty expires. Not sure if I have the balls to do so beforehand, would be thrilled if there was a lotus option.

Any insight, informed conjecture, or actual information would be appreciated here.

Thanks!

 

[TomE]

In Harry’s review he did comment on the differences between Tour, Sport and Track drive modes in both auto and manual shifting for the DCT. I haven’t re-watched it but he seemed underwhelmed and confused that it didn’t sharpen up in the way he had expected.

I suspect AMG have restricted what Lotus can do to the software for both engine tuning and gearbox shifting characteristics.

They’ve been closely involved with the Emira i4 development and it wouldn’t surprise me if they’d done all the changes themselves and provided the encrypted code to Lotus.

 

[kitkat]

The shifts aren't slow, you can hear how fast the shifts are when they drive in automatic mode -- I'm guessing they're in the tens of ms shift times just like most of the other DCTs I've seen.

Upshifts: Upshifts in manual mode require timing, if you've ever run into the rev limiter before -- the car will just fall flat on it's face and you'll lunge forward -- it's pretty brutal. This is unfortunately due to the delay in between the actual and reported RPMs, seems the digital display is lagging a bit. 150+ ms or so lag would be critical unfortunately.

Downshifts: Safe downshift calculation needs to have a safety margin. Basically, if you downshift, where will the RPMs land, is this over the redline? Based on the reviews the safety margin by AMG seems to be fairly large whereas other car manufacturers will let you downshift to a rpm very close to redline. This seems to be out of Lotus' control according to multiple comments from reviewers.

The real problem here is manual dct gear selection and not the dct itself. I could see these being improved long term but I'm not hopeful with the lack of control Lotus seems to have.

 

[Jdmc21]

The shifts aren't slow, you can hear how fast the shifts are when they drive in automatic mode -- I'm guessing they're in the tens of ms shift times just like most of the other DCTs I've seen.

Upshifts: Upshifts in manual mode require timing, if you've ever run into the rev limiter before -- the car will just fall flat on it's face and you'll lunge forward -- it's pretty brutal. This is unfortunately due to the delay in between the actual and reported RPMs, seems the digital display is lagging a bit. 150+ ms or so lag would be critical unfortunately.

Downshifts: Safe downshift calculation needs to have a safety margin. Basically, if you downshift, where will the RPMs land, is this over the redline? Based on the reviews the safety margin by AMG seems to be fairly large whereas other car manufacturers will let you downshift to a rpm very close to redline. This seems to be out of Lotus' control according to multiple comments from reviewers.

The real problem here is manual dct gear selection and not the dct itself. I could see these being improved long term but I'm not hopeful with the lack of control Lotus seems to have.

Thank you TomE and KitKat.

Seems part of the issue with manual gear selection, in addition to the presumably AMG imposed conservative buffers is the display lag. I’m sure with practice you’d get a sense for when you really need to shift, but the point of a shift indicator is so that’s necessary. Perhaps Lotus fixes the display lag in time.

 

[Tokion]

Thank you TomE and KitKat.

Seems part of the issue with manual gear selection, in addition to the presumably AMG imposed conservative buffers is the display lag. I’m sure with practice you’d get a sense for when you really need to shift, but the point of a shift indicator is so that’s necessary. Perhaps Lotus fixes the display lag in time.

Extremely useful thread for us that have ordered cars with AMG M139 engines and AMG 8DCT gearboxes.

There is relevant criticism in the various reviews, and there is a genuine need for LOTUS & AMG to address the DCT gearbox software issues. However I feel that the difficulty is not only that AMG may disallow that Lotus UK themselves reprogram the DCT gearbox software, but also that they (Lotus UK) is completely micromanaged by its majority owner Geely. So even when a problem is pointed out by the press, will Lotus UK get the permission to admit it, and make changes that are associated with cost and the use of engineering manpower? I have a feeling such control will dictate what gets acted upon, and what will not be acted upon.

Only time will show; and I for one have a desire for these software gremlins to be taken care of so our cars become perfected to the degree it is technically possible.

 

[digilotus]

If I'm not mistaken, an Emira V6 reviewer mentioned some lag in the V6 drivers display as well (along the lines of the display's digital speedo couldn't keep up?). Maybe someone remembers the specifics?

Owning a V6, I haven't noticed any display lag, but I will pay specific attention to it during future drives.

 

[maggierose]

Well written post @Jdmc21 ,

My dealer has contacted me about locking in a spec but I"m not so sure I want to continue with a FE Emira.

1. The delays.
2. The price increase.
3. The numerous build quality issues.
4. NA receiving detuned power output i4s. (IMHO this shouldn't happen given time delays & price increases).
5. Lack of knowledge on base trim pricing.
5. Non-superlative reviews due to:
a. The transmission.
b. assumed higher power output models due in the future.
c. Shift paddle placement & feel.
d. Turbo lag.
e. AMG forcing a spec on Lotus?

Hampshire photo has a youtube channel featuring his tuned A45S and while he has tuned the ECU, it sounds like the TCU is still locked to the aftermarket:



I don't want to give up on Emira but I don't know if FE is right for me. At this point, I feel like I need to test drive one to find out if the FE is for me.

Has anyone priced out a Lotus NYO ECU?