Climate Change

[emiraspain]

Im reading all this crap and I still dont have my email from LOTUS!!!>..

 

[FederGigant]

As far as I know the IPCC consists of hundreds, if not thousands of scientist that all share their data and get controlled by each other and by a few hundred other authorities. It's the most legit and reputable institution that one could ever imagine and they all come to the same conclusions. Yes, the climate changed many times in the Earth's history, but normally a climate change like we have seen it in the last 100 years took hundred of thousands of years, not only a few decades. That's fact number 1 and there is nothing to discuss about that and there are no two opinions about that. Fact number two is that we humans are a 100 percent responsible for the rising Co2 numbers in the atmosphere. We also don't have to discuss that. Fact number three is that Co2 is the main driver for global warming. So if anybody of you is able to connect the dots, you will see that there is no discussion necessary.
That all doesn't mean that cars are the biggest problem, nor that EVs will save the world, but it is very clear that we have a big problem. I find it a bit odd to ignore that just because it's inconvenient.
If you are old and say you don't give a shit I can understand that. Even if you have children or grandchildren and don't care about them getting in big trouble at some point in the future. But just saying that it isn't true is ridiculous and very brainless.

 

[vision]

Completely agree with you, but within the range of outcomes are very serious consequences. They may not be perfectly accurate predictions, but they deserve our attention due to their implications.

The trouble with science is it begets arrogance, because knowledge of the material world is the highest knowledge in a radically materialist society. So they act like high priests and gatekeepers to higher truths, everyone is expected to bow down. But the reality is human beings are inherently not materialists (which is not the same as not being materialistic) so whilst most of us value the contribution of science and have respect for their work, the expectation we should surrender our intuition to them completely, otherwise be damned, is oppressive.

Morever the independent scientist today only exists in the history books. The way science is funded and scientists careers are progressed means science is never independent of commercial interests. That does not invalidate their findings, but it does limit what they can find and report.

Hi Chaps, I think what Lotus did today honouring FE deposit holders prices is sterling. Apologies for they weird analogy but I view things on Heinz soup (rest of the world bear with me).
last week a tin of soup in Portsmouth was 75P (buy four for £3), today at 8am in my local main stream store for a single Tin was £1.39!!!

Anything with metal components is out of control, I buy extrusions and sheet but when you enquire you have 24 hours window otherwise the price changes instantly.

I think what `I am saying is that if we get our cars at the deposit rates we have done very well indeed.

 

[SemiF19]

I literally have zero faith that humans will do what's needed.........we are too selfish to give up what we'd need to give up to truly make a difference.........we are going to eventually be extinct, it's just a matter of how long it takes.

 

[Green]

Hi Chaps, I think what Lotus did today honouring FE deposit holders prices is sterling. Apologies for they weird analogy but I view things on Heinz soup (rest of the world bear with me).
last week a tin of soup in Portsmouth was 75P (buy four for £3), today at 8am in my local main stream store for a single Tin was £1.39!!!

Anything with metal components is out of control, I buy extrusions and sheet but when you enquire you have 24 hours window otherwise the price changes instantly.

I think what `I am saying is that if we get our cars at the deposit rates we have done very well indeed.

Reporting for off topic

 

[MickOpalak]

Because science has compromised itself badly. It's now a business and business concerns are more important than integrity. They can now claim anything, and call it science, and count on the fact that the average person will believe it because you know, it's science.

Science is a process. It doesn't change. It is not a business in any way. If it's not followed then the results can't be called scientific. People may claim scientific findings, but false claims can quickly be disproven.

 

[mjw930]

Nova nailed it, the scientific flaws are stunning once you take the time to analyze the data. I too have a background in engineering and science, one of my degrees is actually in Earth and Atmospheric Science so I can certainly digest and interpret complex data regarding climate. Take CO2 for example, prevailing wisdom is as CO2 goes so goes the average temperatures. It ignores some credible historical evidence that shows exactly the opposite, CO2 rise could actually be a trailing indicator but these "Scientists" won't even entertain the discussion.

Don't get me wrong, climate change is real, I don't deny that, but it is not the existential crisis our leaders would like us to believe. Hell, when I was in school the headlines were "we are heading into the next ice age".... Regardless, It's a problem we can and will solve through innovation, just like we've solved every problem we have ever encountered. The problem with the "solutions" that are being proposed (Green New Deal, etc.) is they will actually cause far more harm to civilization at a much faster pace than actually doing nothing! We can do better but our leaders seem to think the only way forward is through fear and intimidation.

ENERGY is the core issue here. The activists love to trot out the claim that 27% of greenhouse gas emissions come from transportation and while true, it misses the 62% that comes from Electricity generation, Industrial, Commercial and Residential burning of fossil fuels to generate heat and/or produce electricity. "Sustainable Energy" is a noble cause but misplaced, it should read "Clean Energy". However, the technology they have hitched their wagon to is tragically flawed. Solar and wind will NEVER, let me repeat that, NEVER replace our existing sources of reliable, 24x7x365 energy, PERIOD, FULL STOP. Augment it, sure, replace it, Never. Additionally, not a single country in the world will have the underlying infrastructure in place to replace even 30% of the existing ICE vehicles with EV's, certainly not with anything that resembles "clean energy" powering them so it's a huge misdirection play. Clean energy only works when it's more financially viable than what's in place today. If we focussed on solving that problem then everything else starts to fall into place.

There is one technology available that has made tremendous strides over the last 40 years even without significant investment, Nuclear. There, I said it...... Now, before everyone breaks out in a cold sweat and starts having Chernobyl nightmares let me point out that If 10% - 20% of the investment being thrown at wind and solar were re-directed to nuclear we would crack things like cold fusion, solve the dirty fuel issue (actually Finland has made great headway here) and set us on the path to a radically abundant future. And that abundance is what will get us through. Saving the planet does not have to go hand in hand with destroying civilization. We need to focus on innovation and stop all the fear mongering.

 

[Pegasi]

Great conversation everyone. IMO this is totally relevant to discuss this in a car forum because automobiles are often an easy target and the fact that the EV train just seems to keep gaining steam.

This is a long video, but when you get some time on a rainy day I suggest watching it.

 

[Nova]

I literally have zero faith that humans will do what's needed.........we are too selfish to give up what we'd need to give up to truly make a difference.........we are going to eventually be extinct, it's just a matter of how long it takes.

Greed and selfishness is how our society advances. The way you say it is as if it's a bad thing.

 

[Nova]

Science is a process. It doesn't change. It is not a business in any way. If it's not followed then the results can't be called scientific. People may claim scientific findings, but false claims can quickly be disproven.

Not if you are called anti-science for trying to question the study. One of the biggest misconceptions people have about modern history is that we are moving away from religion. Religion is simply a system of belief for people to organize their understanding of the world around. Most people do not know enough, or need to know enough, so they prefer to follow guidance provided by others. In this regard, there really is no getting beyond the human need for religion-like social order. In our new modern society, science is the new religion, and people have absolute faith that their belief is correct.

 

[frazzer]

20% of the investment being thrown at wind and solar were re-directed to nuclear we would crack things like cold fusion

Agree with many of your points.

But I don't think fusion is that easy to crack - billions poured in and I could generate more kW with a bank of hamsters on wheels. Imagine how many hamsters you could get for those billions, the poo could be used as fertilizer solving 2 world problems at once.

yes there's the ITER project...but that is a (extremely expensive) joke and they continually misrepresent their results to the public. There are also a number of private sector 'compact' fusion projects which are actually promising.

 

[Green]

Nova nailed it, the scientific flaws are stunning once you take the time to analyze the data. I too have a background in engineering and science, one of my degrees is actually in Earth and Atmospheric Science so I can certainly digest and interpret complex data regarding climate. Take CO2 for example, prevailing wisdom is as CO2 goes so goes the average temperatures. It ignores some credible historical evidence that shows exactly the opposite, CO2 rise could actually be a trailing indicator but these "Scientists" won't even entertain the discussion.

Don't get me wrong, climate change is real, I don't deny that, but it is not the existential crisis our leaders would like us to believe. Hell, when I was in school the headlines were "we are heading into the next ice age".... Regardless, It's a problem we can and will solve through innovation, just like we've solved every problem we have ever encountered. The problem with the "solutions" that are being proposed (Green New Deal, etc.) is they will actually cause far more harm to civilization at a much faster pace than actually doing nothing! We can do better but our leaders seem to think the only way forward is through fear and intimidation.

ENERGY is the core issue here. The activists love to trot out the claim that 27% of greenhouse gas emissions come from transportation and while true, it misses the 62% that comes from Electricity generation, Industrial, Commercial and Residential burning of fossil fuels to generate heat and/or produce electricity. "Sustainable Energy" is a noble cause but misplaced, it should read "Clean Energy". However, the technology they have hitched their wagon to is tragically flawed. Solar and wind will NEVER, let me repeat that, NEVER replace our existing sources of reliable, 24x7x365 energy, PERIOD, FULL STOP. Augment it, sure, replace it, Never. Additionally, not a single country in the world will have the underlying infrastructure in place to replace even 30% of the existing ICE vehicles with EV's, certainly not with anything that resembles "clean energy" powering them so it's a huge misdirection play. Clean energy only works when it's more financially viable than what's in place today. If we focussed on solving that problem then everything else starts to fall into place.

There is one technology available that has made tremendous strides over the last 40 years even without significant investment, Nuclear. There, I said it...... Now, before everyone breaks out in a cold sweat and starts having Chernobyl nightmares let me point out that If 10% - 20% of the investment being thrown at wind and solar were re-directed to nuclear we would crack things like cold fusion, solve the dirty fuel issue (actually Finland has made great headway here) and set us on the path to a radically abundant future. And that abundance is what will get us through. Saving the planet does not have to go hand in hand with destroying civilization. We need to focus on innovation and stop all the fear mongering.

Since you seem educated on the matter what happens to all of the nuclear waste?

 

[eriegz]

I haven't stopped replying, I've been waiting for this topic to have it's own thread so we don't totally go off the rails for this thread. It's a complex and complicated subject that covers a wide range of issues. If we're going to discuss it intelligently, we need to do it in its own thread so those who aren't interested in reading it don't have to have it forced into their face in this thread. The Evija is too beautiful a car to be pushed aside by something that controversial.

No problem at all!

With that being said, I still am curious to know: which books or articles have you read on the topic of climate change? Which specific theories or conclusions do you disagree with, and why?

 

[Leonard]

At the end of the day the planet would be a LOT better off without us and will probably bite back at some point. Covid x 100 #happythoughts

 

[frazzer]

Since you seem educated on the matter what happens to all of the nuclear waste?

Stick it into one of Elon Musk's rockets and blast it to the Sun

 

[mjw930]

Since you seem educated on the matter what happens to all of the nuclear waste?

Two things, more of what Finland is doing to house waste, Advance the technology around breeder reactors which consume nuclear waste. There are also a lot of interesting technology around different ways to build and manage fission reactors such as "salt" reactors.

Some interesting reads.

Finland Will Store Nuclear Waste in an Underground Tomb for 100,000 Years

Onkalo, meaning “deep pit,” is slated to open in 2024.

www.popularmechanics.com

https://www.wired.com/story/next-gen-nuclear/ (4 year old but relevant)

Terrestrial Energy | Leading the Way to a Bright Energy Future | 4th Generation Nuclear Power

Introducing the IMSR® (Integral Molten Salt Reactor), a clean energy technology that will transform how the world’s energy is produced. 4th generation nuclear power.

www.terrestrialenergy.com

 

[Nova]

At the end of the day the planet would be a LOT better off without us and will probably bite back at some point. Covid x 100 #happythoughts

The earth has no reason to exist but for humans. #ForTheNarcissists

 

[frazzer]

The earth has no reason to exist but for humans. #ForTheNarcissists

Well historically this is a European religious perspective later compounded by evolutionary theory, the thinking from that heritage continues today of course. They acted accordingly for a good 1000 yrs or so, they were creative but also incredibly destructive and ultimately hopelessly materialistic. Remarkable mindset given the person they claim to follow lived a frugal life, possessed almost nothing and was mostly concerned with moral teaching and helping others.

Other traditions suggest variously that the Earth is mother, or that they are caretakers on the Earth or suggest other more helpful relationships with the planet than simply being there for the taking by the strongest.

#forTheTryingNotToBePolitical

 

[Nova]

Well historically this is a European religious perspective later compounded by evolutionary theory, the thinking from that heritage continues today of course. They acted accordingly for a good 1000 yrs or so, they were creative but also incredibly destructive and ultimately hopelessly materialistic. Remarkable mindset given the person they claim to follow lived a frugal life, possessed almost nothing and was mostly concerned with moral teaching and helping others.

Other traditions suggest variously that the Earth is mother, or that they are caretakers on the Earth or suggest other more helpful relationships with the planet than simply being there for the taking by the strongest.

#forTheTryingNotToBePolitical

I was actually only half joking. I am an atheist and don't believe there is any reason (the underlying purpose) for Earth's existence other than Humans since it is Humans that is wondering about this reason. Without humans, there is no intelligence to wonder and therefore no reason. Whatever framework the wonder takes place in, whether philosophical or rational logic, is beside the point IMO.

 

[R1272]

"Green" is the color of money.