Factory Tour Thread

[JohnHoward]

Honestly, I didn't see a single V6 auto while on the tour. However, that is not indicative of much as there were not many chances to go inspect all the vehicles in the shop; especially without going to open doors on each. There's no good way to spot them from the outside.

I even asked about the type approval for the auto during our time there. The tour guide said he didn't know of any issues in that regard, but sounded like he might have been unaware more than confident.

Hapkin actually did the tour twice, he may have more info on the autos.

Thanks for asking about Type Approval for the auto, I do wonder whether we are going to see the V6 auto as the Type Approval issues continue to be unresolved, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[TomE]

Thanks for asking about Type Approval for the auto, I do wonder whether we are going to see the V6 auto as the Type Approval issues continue to be unresolved, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

Apart from speculation on here, do you have evidence or confirmation from Lotus that V6 Auto type approval hasn’t been achieved and has problems?

 

[eriegz]

Gentleman and ladies. @Next Decade and I truly had a unique experience. We're going to collaborate offline and put it all together. Then post it publicly. We have to be very careful given that we saw so much that we can't disclose and I want to be respectful of the company, especially given that there is some emerging collaboration at a higher level with us.

For now, I will give my impressions on a very high level and then we'll drill down into the details together later. We have extraordinary details that I have not read on the forums yet.

First off, having now driven the car hard at Hethel in a late stage sports suspension manual V6 first edition prototype I can say without a doubt that it drives significantly differently than the Evora GT. The front end is both more planted as well as responsive and stable at the limit, it is tuned brilliantly and more smoothly driving than Evora GT. The engine feels very similarly powerful to the Evora GT, but you run out of revs a little faster and I did find myself bouncing off the red line at least two or three times on the main straight. Annoying.

Suspension in sport does not feel overly stiff, but the body itself is extremely stiff as far as torsional rigidity is concerned. There is a slight amount of body roll but for the most part it is very flat in transitional stability and steady state cornering. You do feel a slight bit of weight transfer that as people have said before is more communicative rather than destabilizing and contributes to confident driving not unconfidence.

Transitional stability in the chicane is extremely impressive. Car wants to rotate nicely and you can be very aggressive with initial turn in and then again applying throttle leaning on the LSD to rocket out. I consistently turned in too early until I adjusted to how fast the rack is and how willing the nose wants to turn. You can trail brake to get the rear to come around easily and predictably. The back end is always totally planted. Neutral to slight understeer at corner exit depending on how exuberant you are. Not really set up as oversteer type of car compared to my M2CS.

Hard threshold breaking in a straight line is a non-issue. Totally undramatic and very stable without any fade whatsoever though with a very familiar smell of hot brake pads by the end of the session. Excellent brake feel and modulation. Not soft and squishy on mine.

The shifter is very short, shifting, positive, notchy and while not by any means, perfect is better than the Evora GT in my opinion. I did mis-shift at least twice in part because I'm used to left hand drive cars and this was a right hand drive one. However, it was into third from 4th which has been a pain point for some people.

Steering is glorious. So much better than any EPAS system that I have driven yet still responsive and quick ratio. Not super sticky on center, totally predictable and not like progressive ratio systems that I don't trust and are hard to predict.

Interior is night and day better. Kef audio is at the level of a better Bose system on cursory use but not Mark Levinson, Bang and Olufsen level.

Paint quality and the production versions are excellent, fit and finish, panel gaps, the thunk of doors closing is significantly improved on production versions compared to the prototypes on the track. Very much a noticeable difference for all of the above.

I will post seperately about GT4 and Evija which we also so being flogged though I can't share pics. Inspiring.

So, how about those "extraordinary details" we were promised?

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

So, how about those "extraordinary details" we were promised?

S O O N

 

[Cachaco131]

So, how about those "extraordinary details" we were promised?

Yes, click bait!

 

[JohnHoward]

Apart from speculation on here, do you have evidence or confirmation from Lotus that V6 Auto type approval hasn’t been achieved and has problems?

@TomE here is an extract of the e.mail I sent to Lotus on Sept 11th, with their reply on the 13th.

"In anticipation of the build of my car commencing next month, I have been looking into insurance options. I have checked sites that I usually use, that include confused.com and comparethemarket and they are not listing the V6 auto Emira. The only choice is the manual option. For new models of cars, the lack of a listing is usually because Type Approval has not been granted yet by the UK Vehicle Certification Agency.
Please would you confirm the position with Type Approval for the V6 auto Emira."
ENDS
Their reply was as follows:
"Unfortunately we are unable to comment on the position with type approval at this stage.
We will have more information in the next few weeks."
ENDS
My reply to which they did not respond
"In that case, I assume that Type Approval is not granted for the Emira V6 auto.
I am sure that the team responsible will be doing everything they can to resolve this and I wish them well in their endeavours."
ENDS

From this communication, my assumption is that they do not have Type Approval, because if they did, why would they not say so. Furthermore, it is not possible to get insurance quotes for the V6 auto, the usual reason for that is a vehicle not having Type Approval.
My further assumption is that there are some issues in gaining Type Approval, otherwise it would be in place now with deliveries imminent.
So, in summary, I don't have solid confirmation, but the evidence is in my view strong that Type Approval remains outstanding for the V6 auto.

 

[DJS]

@TomE here is an extract of the e.mail I sent to Lotus on Sept 11th, with their reply on the 13th.

"In anticipation of the build of my car commencing next month, I have been looking into insurance options. I have checked sites that I usually use, that include confused.com and comparethemarket and they are not listing the V6 auto Emira. The only choice is the manual option. For new models of cars, the lack of a listing is usually because Type Approval has not been granted yet by the UK Vehicle Certification Agency.
Please would you confirm the position with Type Approval for the V6 auto Emira."
ENDS
Their reply was as follows:
"Unfortunately we are unable to comment on the position with type approval at this stage.
We will have more information in the next few weeks."
ENDS
My reply to which they did not respond
"In that case, I assume that Type Approval is not granted for the Emira V6 auto.
I am sure that the team responsible will be doing everything they can to resolve this and I wish them well in their endeavours."
ENDS

From this communication, my assumption is that they do not have Type Approval, because if they did, why would they not say so. Furthermore, it is not possible to get insurance quotes for the V6 auto, the usual reason for that is a vehicle not having Type Approval.
My further assumption is that there are some issues in gaining Type Approval, otherwise it would be in place now with deliveries imminent.
So, in summary, I don't have solid confirmation, but the evidence is in my view strong that Type Approval remains outstanding for the V6 auto.

They wouldn’t be building or confirming V6 auto deliveries in the first batch if they weren’t confident of type approval on time. As mentioned technically they still have over 2 months to get this sorted as the first proper wave of deliveries are until the end of November.

Fingers crossed we are looking good.

 

[JohnHoward]

They wouldn’t be building or confirming V6 auto deliveries in the first batch if they weren’t confident of type approval on time. As mentioned technically they still have over 2 months to get this sorted as the first proper wave of deliveries are until the end of November.

Fingers crossed we are looking good.

I certainly hope that they can get this resolved in time also.
Some red flags for me are around the fact that the autos have not appeared anywhere apart from a test drive event day at the factory for UK retailers early in the summer and that there doesn't seem to be any clear evidence of auto cars on the production line as noted by those taking the factory tour (unless I have missed this). Also, there have been no auto cars delivered overseas that I am aware of.
I don't understand why they would not get Type Approval for the auto at the same time (or similar) as the manual and as a layman, I can’t understand the benefit. But, to be fair my background is not the automotive industry, so there could be valid reasons.
I think me posting about concerns regarding V6 auto Type Approval is perhaps me managing my own personal expectations for what may or may not happen. I am sure that fellow members of this forum will be pleased to know once approval is given and they will have a break from me keep posting about it!

 

[TomE]

@TomE here is an extract of the e.mail I sent to Lotus on Sept 11th, with their reply on the 13th.

"In anticipation of the build of my car commencing next month, I have been looking into insurance options. I have checked sites that I usually use, that include confused.com and comparethemarket and they are not listing the V6 auto Emira. The only choice is the manual option. For new models of cars, the lack of a listing is usually because Type Approval has not been granted yet by the UK Vehicle Certification Agency.
Please would you confirm the position with Type Approval for the V6 auto Emira."
ENDS
Their reply was as follows:
"Unfortunately we are unable to comment on the position with type approval at this stage.
We will have more information in the next few weeks."
ENDS
My reply to which they did not respond
"In that case, I assume that Type Approval is not granted for the Emira V6 auto.
I am sure that the team responsible will be doing everything they can to resolve this and I wish them well in their endeavours."
ENDS

From this communication, my assumption is that they do not have Type Approval, because if they did, why would they not say so. Furthermore, it is not possible to get insurance quotes for the V6 auto, the usual reason for that is a vehicle not having Type Approval.
My further assumption is that there are some issues in gaining Type Approval, otherwise it would be in place now with deliveries imminent.
So, in summary, I don't have solid confirmation, but the evidence is in my view strong that Type Approval remains outstanding for the V6 auto.

Strong evidence to suggest it’s not there yet, including Lotus not directly answering the question.

Type approval includes a number of official measurements, such as emissions, so they need to do it for both Manual and Auto as they differ.

I assume it’s imminent, as Lotus have said some Auto cars are in the Oct build batch.

 

[emiraspain]

Strong evidence to suggest it’s not there yet, including Lotus not directly answering the question.

Type approval includes a number of official measurements, such as emissions, so they need to do it for both Manual and Auto as they differ.

I assume it’s imminent, as Lotus have said some Auto cars are in the Oct build batch.

So, speaking as usual about what I dont know.... but....here we go...
if they dont have type approval for Auto as of yet, would that not now mean the Auto's need the imfamous ADdiDAS features to gain the type approval as now all cars need it?
Or am I very mixed up...
ALSO what on earth happened to out Jetlagged american friends with their new information promised almost a week ago...... Im not expecting any real revelations, but something to read over my salmon today would be nice...

 

[JohnHoward]

So, speaking as usual about what I dont know.... but....here we go...
if they dont have type approval for Auto as of yet, would that not now mean the Auto's need the imfamous ADdiDAS features to gain the type approval as now all cars need it?
Or am I very mixed up...
ALSO what on earth happened to out Jetlagged american friends with their new information promised almost a week ago...... Im not expecting any real revelations, but something to read over my salmon today would be nice...

TomE posted this back in April

Speed limiter, cruise control and ADAS

There's continued to be some confusion over what type of speed limiter and cruise control is going to be fitted to the different Emira variants. I now have a clear answer. The speed limiter fitted to all Emira variants as standard is a LIM type or a “traditional speed limiter”. So you simply...

www.emiraforum.com

I did a bit of searching and this paragraph, that relates to Intelligent Speed assistance (ISA), a component of ADAS, is extracted from:

Mandatory speed limiters have arrived in the UK: what this means for you

Speed limiters and other ADAS technology is now mandated for all cars. Find out what this means for you, your driving and your insurance.

www.parkers.co.uk

Extract ............
All new cars made from that July 2022 date need to be fitted with the technology, but the new cars that have already been launched this year, without ISA, have until 2024 to have the tech fitted. That said, it is believed that Ford and Volvo have both been integrating the devices into their vehicles and just not yet activating them.
ENDS
As the V6 auto was launched at the same time as the manual in July 2021, this is prior to the cut off date, so any ADAS components would not be required.
So this should not be a Type Approval issue. My guess is that the emissions are the problem with type approval as the manual came in higher than originally expected and nudged it up a tax bracket in the UK, perhaps the auto is worse with the overall weight of the car, compared to the Evora, being a factor.

 

[roundincircles]

So, speaking as usual about what I dont know.... but....here we go...
if they dont have type approval for Auto as of yet, would that not now mean the Auto's need the imfamous ADdiDAS features to gain the type approval as now all cars need it?
Or am I very mixed up...
ALSO what on earth happened to out Jetlagged american friends with their new information promised almost a week ago...... Im not expecting any real revelations, but something to read over my salmon today would be nice...

Type approval starts at design stage and progresses through prototype and pre-production, depending on what's being certified. With large manufacturers it's done in parallel but small manufactures in sequence due to limited numbers and cash. It's generally self tested with appropriate authorities in attendance. It's well organised in Europe, and since leaving the EU, the UK co-ordinates with the Swedish to gain EU approval. US type approval is self certified as their liability laws drive compliance!

 

[Andrea]

Disappointed the gear shifter linkages won’t be exposed. I hope that doesn’t mean they’re going to cheap out with the aesthetic mechanical finish we saw on those parts for those of us who are going to try and expose it.

Same as the demos I've seen at the italian dealer

 

[Lotustoronto]

So, speaking as usual about what I dont know.... but....here we go...
if they dont have type approval for Auto as of yet, would that not now mean the Auto's need the imfamous ADdiDAS features to gain the type approval as now all cars need it?
Or am I very mixed up...
ALSO what on earth happened to out Jetlagged american friends with their new information promised almost a week ago...... Im not expecting any real revelations, but something to read over my salmon today would be nice...

The Emira Forum member waiting for the elusive exclusive Lotus factory tour revelations....

 

[emiraspain]

The Emira Forum member waiting for the elusive exclusive Lotus factory tour revelations....
View attachment 9257

Ive lost interest again..... you dont eat for long enough.. u go passed hungry... red herring on the end of that line?

 

[Lotustoronto]

Ive lost interest again..... you dont eat for long enough.. u go passed hungry... red herring on the end of that line?

well it's not salmon lol

 

[Lotustoronto]

Emira depositors once they see the new Emira pricing and car loan rates.... @Leonard

 

[eriegz]

Emira depositors once they see the new Emira pricing and car loan rates.... @Leonard
View attachment 9258

Hey now, we have a thread for this!

 

[Leonard]

Emira depositors once they see the new Emira pricing and car loan rates.... @Leonard
View attachment 9258

At this rate I may need something a little more under the radar than the Emira. A Q car Yaris maybe
At present in all good conscience I dont think I could turn up to work in something that looks like it cost £100k+ Would honestly feel like I'm rubbing people's noses in it as so many are suffering.
And yup I care too much!

 

[eriegz]

At this rate I may need something a little more under the radar than the Emira. A Q car Yaris maybe
At present in all good conscience I dont think I could turn up to work in something that looks like it cost £100k+ Would honestly feel like I'm rubbing people's noses in it as so many are suffering.
And yup I care too much!

Or, maybe you'll brighten their day from seeing a nice car!