Geely to sell all share back to Lotus!

Geely exercises its Put Option on Lotus UK, enabling reintegration of all businesses under the Lotus brand

Bear with me, as this one is a bit complicated and jargon-heavy. Lotus Technology Inc. announced that Geely, the majority...

electrek.co

Not sure if this has been posted, but I thought this looked interesting

 

[cwfg]

I was told by a dealer last week that Lotus can’t sell the Evija. As for corporate structure, it’s overly complex as a result of mergers etc and as already suggested, just a case of restructuring. There will be a material (to Geely/Lotus) degree of unseen operational overhead in that complexity that they will want to streamline. It could be a good thing in the mid/long term.

 

[Teshoo Lama]

I have feeling that a petrol-engine Evija would miss their (Lotus's) point - that the Evija was built to showcase what an EV can do and that they can out-do any petrol engine.

The Evija has 2,000 PS (1,500 kW) and 1,700 Nm of torque and weighs just 1600kg. For reference the Chiron Supersport that costs just as much and has 1,600 PS and 1600 Nm at 2000kg. The Evija is kind of on a different level.

It doesn't sound as good as a petrol engine but also glad they didn't pipe in a fake engine noise though (sorry i4 owners ).

Yeah, that was clearly their aim, and it was a reasonable strategy. Unfortunately, they didn't realise that EV demand was almost entirely inorganic, and subsidy-driven. False incentives have distorted the market and are now doing serious damage to brands and bottom lines.

There is no passion for a EV sportscars, let alone hypercars. It will be interesting to see if Porsche go through with what will be a complete humiliation with the 718 EV, unless they deeply discount it from the off.

 

[ShootingSight]

There is little profit in sports cars. If you want to make money, you sell an SUV. Geeley bought Lotus so they could put a recognized high-end badge on their ev-suv line. With the decline in demand for EVs, the US tariff on Chinese EVs, the subsequent tariff on all Chinese products, the business plan for Lotus badged Chinese EV SUVs has withered, so they want their money back. Unfortunately, that puts Lotus back into the ‘little profit’ zone.

Personally, I think Lotus should stick to what they know best, and farm everything else out to large volume people who do it best at low cost. Lotus should do chassis, suspension, and styling. They already farm out engine to Toyota. They should farm out electrics to Bosch or let Toyota do that as well. Farm out the infotainment system (the Emira is a disaster). Basically, use existing parts off other cars wherever possible.

 

[Eagle7]

I have feeling that a petrol-engine Evija would miss their (Lotus's) point - that the Evija was built to showcase what an EV can do and that they can out-do any petrol engine.

The Evija has 2,000 PS (1,500 kW) and 1,700 Nm of torque and weighs just 1600kg. For reference the Chiron Supersport that costs just as much and has 1,600 PS and 1600 Nm at 2000kg. The Evija is kind of on a different level.

It doesn't sound as good as a petrol engine but also glad they didn't pipe in a fake engine noise though (sorry i4 owners ).

They did make it to make a point, but that was back when everybody believed we were going to go all electric, which was before covid and everything that happened during and after that. Now that the hard reality of economics has forced a course correction, they could still keep the electric Evija for those what want to order one, but if they make an ICE version, that's the one I think would sell. It's too gorgeous a shape to just let it fade into history because it's electric and those just aren't selling and aren't likely to.

 

[Eagle7]

There is little profit in sports cars. If you want to make money, you sell an SUV. Geeley bought Lotus so they could put a recognized high-end badge on their ev-suv line. With the decline in demand for EVs, the US tariff on Chinese EVs, the subsequent tariff on all Chinese products, the business plan for Lotus badged Chinese EV SUVs has withered, so they want their money back. Unfortunately, that puts Lotus back into the ‘little profit’ zone.

Personally, I think Lotus should stick to what they know best, and farm everything else out to large volume people who do it best at low cost. Lotus should do chassis, suspension, and styling. They already farm out engine to Toyota. They should farm out electrics to Bosch or let Toyota do that as well. Farm out the infotainment system (the Emira is a disaster). Basically, use existing parts off other cars wherever possible.

A Lotus has always been a parts bin car, with the body and chassis being their own. With the acquisition by Geely, they wanted to minimize that and become a genuine manufacturer. I think the Emira is actually a pretty darned good effort in that sense.

What Lotus/Geely needs to do is decide who they want to be, and what segment of the market is the wisest to aim at, because right now Lotus Wuhan was a huge swing and a miss. Lotus Hethel is so far their best effort, which goes back to the core strength that was always a Lotus; a sports car.

Lotus isn't the only one struggling though. Every American car manufacturer got burned by the EV delusion, as did Stellantis, and many others, and they're all trying to figure out how to get back on course. The only company that actually saw through it correctly and kept on course was Toyota. Porsche seems to have been the quickest to course correct.

Yesterday the wife and I were out on errands, and while driving around I was noticing just how big SUV's and pickups are getting to be. We're in a 2017 Honda SUV, and yet we're looking up at the top of all the new SUV's and trucks around us. They're getting huge, and there's one person inside driving (a female more often than not) who has the steering wheel in one hand, and their phone in the other. If the auto industry wants to start making a profit, get vehicle sizes back down to something more practical, and they'll be able to bring the prices down as well. To me, it's all starting to look somewhat ridiculous. Although the Emira seems big for a Lotus, it's so small compared to most everything else.

 

[cyanmauve]

If the auto industry wants to start making a profit, get vehicle sizes back down to something more practical, and they'll be able to bring the prices down as well.

I wish I agreed with this, but I don’t. It’s like Olive Garden, or any number of chain restaurants. It makes financial sense to sell the consumer “more for less” than less car for relatively more.

An entree at most chain restaurants is beyond what’s reasonably large for one person to eat at a meal by themselves. But it seems the public has decided it would rather pay $15-20 for a ludicrous amount of food than $10-12 for a reasonable portion.

I doubt the raw material cost is all that different between a compact and full-sized SUV, for example. If a few thousand dollars more buys a significantly larger vehicle, Americans are going to buy the bigger one almost every time whether they actually need it or not.

This may not be the case in the rest of the world given cultural norms, significant taxes in larger vehicles with larger engines, etc.

 

[Eagle7]

I wish I agreed with this, but I don’t. It’s like Olive Garden, or any number of chain restaurants. It makes financial sense to sell the consumer “more for less” than less car for relatively more.

An entree at most chain restaurants is beyond what’s reasonably large for one person to eat at a meal by themselves. But it seems the public has decided it would rather pay $15-20 for a ludicrous amount of food than $10-12 for a reasonable portion.

I doubt the raw material cost is all that different between a compact and full-sized SUV, for example. If a few thousand dollars more buys a significantly larger vehicle, Americans are going to buy the bigger one almost every time whether they actually need it or not.

This may not be the case in the rest of the world given cultural norms, significant taxes in larger vehicles with larger engines, etc.

Interesting comparison to restaurants, because we have a burger chain here in the west, In-N-Out, that sells a burger, fries and drink for under $8 and the place is packed all the time. You can't get through Arby's or Taco Bell for less than $20-$30 which is ridiculous, and many times their drive-throughs have one or two cars, or are empty. Other chain restaurants have plenty of empty tables inside. Black Bear Diner near us has come up with a burger basket combo that's a burger, 1 side and a drink for $10 which is actually pretty good. Their burger is better than In-N-Out's believe it or not, and we see a lot more customers inside now than used to be. For awhile, we weren't sure they were going to survive. We lost many restaurants after covid.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I have feeling that a petrol-engine Evija would miss their (Lotus's) point - that the Evija was built to showcase what an EV can do and that they can out-do any petrol engine.

The Evija has 2,000 PS (1,500 kW) and 1,700 Nm of torque and weighs just 1600kg. For reference the Chiron Supersport that costs just as much and has 1,600 PS and 1600 Nm at 2000kg. The Evija is kind of on a different level.

It doesn't sound as good as a petrol engine but also glad they didn't pipe in a fake engine noise though (sorry i4 owners ).

Yes, the Evija is an absolutely insane machine.... In that sense Lotus nailed the brief.

 

[Bulls-Vivid-Red]

I'm linking one of my favorite car blogs which is written buy a guy who not only owns a number of supercars but is a financial expert. He always does a great job of breaking down annual/quarterly reports to get past all of the BS. His articles on Aston Martin in particular have been amazing, as he correctly predicted cash raises (investor dilution) well in advance of the markets.

As for Lotus, he breaks down and summarizes the convoluted ownership structure along with the financials in just a few pages. The most telling paragraphs:

Looking back at Lotus’ original guidance for 2024, they were calling for Unit Sales of 26,000, Revenue of $2.5-$2.7 billion & Gross Margin of 17%-19%. Given that they didn’t even hit half of any of these targets, Lotus is making Aston Martin look like a tightly run ship.

Lotus has solved the issue of underperformance vs. guidance by simply declining to provide any 2025 unit sales, revenue or gross margin targets.

Lotus 2024 | SSO Report

To start with, Lotus Technology and Lotus UK (maker of Lotus branded sportscars in the UK) are two separate companies with similar ownership structures. While Lotus Technology is now a public company, Lotus UK is still privately held with Geely owning 51% and Etika holding the remaining 49%...

ssoreport.com

Hope you enjoy!

 

[MikeR]

Some may have got a bit over-excited. Here’s how much ink the UK’s respected weekly Autocar title gave to the matter.

By contrast, the recent McLaren-Forseven merger got 6 pages.

 

[Bulls-Vivid-Red]

Some may have got a bit over-excited. Here’s how much ink the UK’s respected weekly Autocar title gave to the matter.

By contrast, the recent McLaren-Forseven merger got 6 pages.

If only Lotus could have gotten a different sugar daddy...... The Arabs backing McLaren are not only a bottomless source of cash, they more importantly are letting McLaren be themselves. Forseven is planning on leveraging McLaren's expertise to make their other car brands better instead of badge engineering McLaren . Contrast this with Geely trying to convert Lotus into an all electric SUV/sedan brand, simply the anthesis of the company. Geely basically bought a badge to slap onto sporty electrics and could give a crap about the rest. We got lucky that the Emira was too far developed for them to not release. Simply, then and add lightness is long gone.