Has there been any leak regarding the Emira V6 lap time round Hethel

[CDM1855]

Hi

I am presuming that due to the better aerodynamics, the v6 Emira will get round Hethel quicker than any of the previous Evora's

I am sure I read somewhere that Gavan Kershaw was quoted as saying it was quicker, but can't find where I read it, or maybe I just imagined it

Chris

 

[p.rob]

I'm going for the touring suspension, as I made a huge mistake buying a Ford Focus RS sight unseen, no test drive and it was by far the harshest ride of any car I've owned.
Sold it after only 8 months of ownership, as it beat the crap out of me every time I drove it.
Don't want to make the same mistake with the Emira.

I've heard that comment a lot about the Focus RS

 

[Porter]

I'm going for the touring suspension, as I made a huge mistake buying a Ford Focus RS sight unseen, no test drive and it was by far the harshest ride of any car I've owned.
Sold it after only 8 months of ownership, as it beat the crap out of me every time I drove it.
Don't want to make the same mistake with the Emira.

Honestly those cars were just set up poorly from the factory. There's no reason to have made that car as stiff as it was. It didn't help the handling. I guess they were trying to get the "drift mode" to work consistently.

 

[Gibbo205]

Will probably be circa 1:27 for a Sport chassis on cup 2 tyres and around 1:28.5 on Goodyear tyres and 1:29 plus for touring chassis setup.

Emira has more downforce and wider tracks compared to an Evora, but their is a weight penalty a very small power penalty, as such expecting it to be trailing an Exige 430 Cup is highly unlikely unless the chassis is far superior in the Emira and I simply don't think the Exige or Evora was that compromised as they are superb cars.

Also the Emira is not on trick coilovers, whereas the later Evora's and Exige's had Nitron coilovers which are superior to what the Emira has.

I think if the Emira can go sub 1:27 it is a huge success for a mass production car on fixed dampers, weighing more with less power.

 

[TomE]

This was a common phrase at that time.

Clearly this is wrong in terms of rawness and performance and drama.
If the Exige is 10/10, the Evora is 8/10 and Emira 6/10.
Fair enough.

The Emira only beats the Exige/Evora in the levels of comfort, overall robustness (we hope!) and beauty (subjective).

The Emira does not even match the Evora 400/410 in dynamic terms and probably no Exige at all.
However, for what the car is meant to be it is still amazing - just NOT a replacement for a previous Lotus.

Except we’re told by Lotus the Emira is faster round the Hethel test track than any Elise, Exige or Evora apart from the Exige Cup cars.

It seems the wider front track and another evolution of the chassis and suspension are enough to offset the weight and power compromises. Headline 0-60 is down but that’s only one measure.

 

[RafP]

Moderator edit: copied from test drives thread

Except we’re told by Lotus the Emira is faster round the Hethel test track than any Elise, Exige or Evora apart from the Exige Cup cars.

It seems the wider front track and another evolution of the chassis and suspension are enough to offset the weight and power compromises. Headline 0-60 is down but that’s only one measure.

interesting as I have been told by an LA instructor that is 100% not the case. I will withhold his name just incase Lotus read this board.

It’s a fair bit (in track terms) slower than a gt410, gt430 and Exige 380, 410. None of those cups but all on Cup 2s. Would love to see some back to back laps from Lotus to prove the claim as I call BS that, faster than an 410 Exige of cups around there not happening. Onlins are superior to current set up if any on track pack also.

Would make total sense with less power to weight and let’s face it despite marketing same chassis pretty much but with a shorter wheel base.

A properly tuned i4 430+ would% be quicker however. DCT would be a large part of that.

 

[KCMO68_510]

Except we’re told by Lotus the Emira is faster round the Hethel test track than any Elise, Exige or Evora apart from the Exige Cup cars.

It seems the wider front track and another evolution of the chassis and suspension are enough to offset the weight and power compromises. Headline 0-60 is down but that’s only one measure.

I agree with this take, because I think it lines up with my experience during test drive. This feels more like a momentum track car that can absolutely stick and carry a lot of speed through the corners, but that will require the driver to be in the right gear coming out of corner exit. I'll tend to believe Lotus until they are proven distinctly wrong. Cars can look and feel slow and put down amazing track times.

So the 0-60 time may be slower than what people want at this price point, but for those that live for the corners on track days, I think they will be the real winners for this car.

 

[Paul Lewis]

I agree with this take, because I think it lines up with my experience during test drive. This feels more like a momentum track car that can absolutely stick and carry a lot of speed through the corners, but that will require the driver to be in the right gear coming out of corner exit. I'll tend to believe Lotus until they are proven distinctly wrong. Cars can look and feel slow and put down amazing track times.

So the 0-60 time may be slower than what people want at this price point, but for those that live for the corners on track days, I think they will be the real winners for this car.

I disagree with everything you say. All lotus cars are track focused. You are saying that an Emira which weighs circa 1400kg is faster around a track than any of the V6 Exige circa weight 1150kg. As Colin Chapman stated adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere. “

 

[KCMO68_510]

I disagree with everything you say. All lotus cars are track focused. You are saying that an Emira which weighs circa 1400kg is faster around a track than any of the V6 Exige circa weight 1150kg. As Colin Chapman stated adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere. “

Disagree all you want, but you literally have no actual data. Neither do I. The only people who do are Lotus themselves.

Also, if you disagree with everything I say that also means you disagreed with the fact that fast lap times can look and feel very slow. If you disagree with that I just question how much competitive seat time you've had.

 

[KCMO68_510]

I disagree with everything you say. All lotus cars are track focused. You are saying that an Emira which weighs circa 1400kg is faster around a track than any of the V6 Exige circa weight 1150kg. As Colin Chapman stated adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere. “

So here is just a quick look online.

EVO Magazine did a lap at Anglesey Coastal Circuit with a V6 Emira. Then I looked up other Lotus best times on that circuit.

V6 Emira 1:18..50
Exige S 1:22.20
Lotus Evora: 1:24.90

The Lotus 2-Eleven is faster at 1:16.40
The Lotus Exige Cup 430 is faster at 1:14.71

Small sample size, but this seems to support Lotus saying it's faster except the Cup/Race cars.

Just to add a further reference at Le Mans (Buggatti) the Evora 400 was about 5 seconds faster over a 2 minute course than an Evora. Back of the envelope math, that would mean you'd expect it to be 3.5 seconds faster than an Evora on Anglessey. So let's approximate that an Evora 400 would be around a 1:21.40.

 

[RafP]

So here is just a quick look online.

EVO Magazine did a lap at Anglesey Coastal Circuit with a V6 Emira. Then I looked up other Lotus best times on that circuit.

V6 Emira 1:18..50
Exige S 1:22.20
Lotus Evora: 1:24.90

The Lotus 2-Eleven is faster at 1:16.40
The Lotus Exige Cup 430 is faster at 1:14.71

Small sample size, but this seems to support Lotus saying it's faster except the Cup/Race cars.

Lotus Exige was the 345 bhp S (none made 350) and 1.19.1.

380 sport would have been atleast 1 second quicker than a V6s and 410 easily 2 seconds. Evora must have been an N/A also as that’s slower than a GT86 around Anglesea if your figure for that correct.

So actually supports the opposite.

If I do get mine it would be tracked so interested to compared past track times with it tbh.

 

[Lotustoronto]

So here is just a quick look online.

EVO Magazine did a lap at Anglesey Coastal Circuit with a V6 Emira. Then I looked up other Lotus best times on that circuit.

V6 Emira 1:18..50
Exige S 1:22.20
Lotus Evora: 1:24.90

The Lotus 2-Eleven is faster at 1:16.40
The Lotus Exige Cup 430 is faster at 1:14.71

Small sample size, but this seems to support Lotus saying it's faster except the Cup/Race cars.

Just to add a further reference at Le Mans (Buggatti) the Evora 400 was about 5 seconds faster over a 2 minute course than an Evora. Back of the envelope math, that would mean you'd expect it to be 3.5 seconds faster than an Evora on Anglessey. So let's approximate that an Evora 400 would be around a 1:21.40.

Also note that lap time was on goodyear setup on sport suspension. I suspect Cup 2's will be a bit quicker.

I am no expert on Evora - but I imagine it will beat the Evora 400 on track, perhaps not the Evora GT430 edition

** Evora 430 was 2900 Lbs @ 430 BHP - that should out perform Emira.

 

[KCMO68_510]

Lotus Exige was the 345 bhp S (none made 350) and 1.19.1.

380 sport would have been atleast 1 second quicker than a V6s and 410 easily 2 seconds. Evora must have been an N/A also as that’s slower than a GT86 around Anglesea if your figure for that correct.

So actually supports the opposite.

If I do get mine it would be tracked so interested to compared past track times with it tbh.

Anglesey Coastal lap times - FastestLaps.com

List of fastest lap times for Anglesey Coastal. Updated October 2022.

fastestlaps.com

That's where I pulled it from. I also see the Lotus Exige S time you had from EVO leaderboard here: https://www.evo.co.uk/leaderboard/1...times-the-worlds-fastest-cars-tested-on-track

The other part is that the EVO test of the Emira was on Goodyears. Tires are the best upgrade you can make on a car for lap times (years of Hoosiers in SCCA has taught me this), so I bet the Emira could put up an even better time than it did if on it's best tires.

At worse case if Lotus says it's faster around their track, all data points to it at least being very close.

 

[Cachaco131]

So here is just a quick look online.

EVO Magazine did a lap at Anglesey Coastal Circuit with a V6 Emira. Then I looked up other Lotus best times on that circuit.

V6 Emira 1:18..50
Exige S 1:22.20
Lotus Evora: 1:24.90

The Lotus 2-Eleven is faster at 1:16.40
The Lotus Exige Cup 430 is faster at 1:14.71

Small sample size, but this seems to support Lotus saying it's faster except the Cup/Race cars.

Just to add a further reference at Le Mans (Buggatti) the Evora 400 was about 5 seconds faster over a 2 minute course than an Evora. Back of the envelope math, that would mean you'd expect it to be 3.5 seconds faster than an Evora on Anglessey. So let's approximate that an Evora 400 would be around a 1:21.40.

Get ready to be burned alive by a few in here.

 

[KCMO68_510]

Get ready to be burned alive by a few in here.

Unlike my detractors, I actually own a flamesuit

 

[Beady]

127.5-128 looking at the comparables

 

[Forlorn]

Get ready to be burned alive by a few in here.

There are two routes at Anglesey the short circuit and the longer extra loop. Be careful, which circuit Evo used, I guess it’s the short circuit. The other times could have been longer circuit with extra loop? Hence difference in times, by so much.

 

[Paul Lewis]

Disagree all you want, but you literally have no actual data. Neither do I. The only people who do are Lotus themselves.

Also, if you disagree with everything I say that also means you disagreed with the fact that fast lap times can look and feel very slow. If you disagree with that I just question how much competitive seat time you've had.

Why make the statement if you do not have any empirical data?

 

[KCMO68_510]

Why make the statement if you do not have any empirical data?

Thanks for the question. Happy to answer.

For those reading this thread, this started over in the test drives reaction thread and got moved over here because we started talking lap times. But it's important to know it started in the test drives thread. Their started to be a number of people who had their test drives and were underwhelmed by the cars power. So they started to claim it to be a lesser capable car than previous cars, and implying that Lotus had to be lying about it's ability. All of this b/c their butt dyno told them so.

My initial comment was to give my experience from my test drive. It feels like a momentum car. It feels like it has a great chassis, nice suspension, and good enough power that if you keep it in the right gear could be great on a track. We also know the car has better aero than previous cars. I then further went on to say that until Lotus is proven wrong, I think we have to believe them at their word. What feels more likely? That they built a slower car than the Exige/Evora and just LIED about it OR that they have great chassis engineers who probably found a way to make the Emira eek out a tenth over previous cars so they could honestly say it's faster than it's predecessors? I'm going to give Lotus the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Not just b/c of people's butt dynos.

Speaking of empirical data, you must have missed the following posts after. Large thread, can't blame you. So let me help summarize:

EVO Magazine has had two non-cup car Lotus's on the Anglesey Coastal Circuit.
Emira V6 - 1:18.50 (On Goodyears)
Exige V6 S - 1:19.10

If you then look up that race way and it's fastest laps you will find other Lotus cars for comparison:
Exige S 1:22.20
Lotus Evora: 1:24.90

Looking at Le Mans (Buggatti) the Evora 400 was about 5 seconds faster over a 2 minute course than an Evora. Back of the envelope math, that would mean you'd expect it to be 3.5 seconds faster than an Evora on Anglessey (1:21.40).

So an Evora 400 is about 2.9 seconds slower than the Emira (on Goodyears) around Anglesey Coastal Circuit.

The Evora 400 does a 1:30.8 around Hethel on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires. So the Emira on Goodyears is probably close to 127.9 on Goodyears around Hethel if you assume the same 2.9 second gap on similar length tracks.

That would place it behind the 1:27.5 Exige Sport 380 (on Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires) and the 1:26.8 Evora GT430 Sport (on Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires) around Hethel.

The question everyone should then ask, is how much time are the Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires worth on track. If it's a half second, then the Emira is ahead of the Exige Sport 380. If it's worth 1.1 seconds, then it's neck and neck with the Evora GT430 Sport. My time in racing cars would say that the tire difference could very well put it ahead.

So yeah, I'm going to believe Lotus for now and listen less to the butt dynos.

 

[Paul Lewis]

Thanks for the question. Happy to answer.

For those reading this thread, this started over in the test drives reaction thread and got moved over here because we started talking lap times. But it's important to know it started in the test drives thread. Their started to be a number of people who had their test drives and were underwhelmed by the cars power. So they started to claim it to be a lesser capable car than previous cars, and implying that Lotus had to be lying about it's ability. All of this b/c their butt dyno told them so.

My initial comment was to give my experience from my test drive. It feels like a momentum car. It feels like it has a great chassis, nice suspension, and good enough power that if you keep it in the right gear could be great on a track. We also know the car has better aero than previous cars. I then further went on to say that until Lotus is proven wrong, I think we have to believe them at their word. What feels more likely? That they built a slower car than the Exige/Evora and just LIED about it OR that they have great chassis engineers who probably found a way to make the Emira eek out a tenth over previous cars so they could honestly say it's faster than it's predecessors? I'm going to give Lotus the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Not just b/c of people's butt dynos.

Speaking of empirical data, you must have missed the following posts after. Large thread, can't blame you. So let me help summarize:

EVO Magazine has had two non-cup car Lotus's on the Anglesey Coastal Circuit.
Emira V6 - 1:18.50 (On Goodyears)
Exige V6 S - 1:19.10

If you then look up that race way and it's fastest laps you will find other Lotus cars for comparison:
Exige S 1:22.20
Lotus Evora: 1:24.90

Looking at Le Mans (Buggatti) the Evora 400 was about 5 seconds faster over a 2 minute course than an Evora. Back of the envelope math, that would mean you'd expect it to be 3.5 seconds faster than an Evora on Anglessey (1:21.40).

So an Evora 400 is about 2.9 seconds slower than the Emira (on Goodyears) around Anglesey Coastal Circuit.

The Evora 400 does a 1:30.8 around Hethel on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires. So the Emira on Goodyears is probably close to 127.9 on Goodyears around Hethel if you assume the same 2.9 second gap on similar length tracks.

That would place it behind the 1:27.5 Exige Sport 380 (on Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires) and the 1:26.8 Evora GT430 Sport (on Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires) around Hethel.

The question everyone should then ask, is how much time are the Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires worth on track. If it's a half second, then the Emira is ahead of the Exige Sport 380. If it's worth 1.1 seconds, then it's neck and neck with the Evora GT430 Sport. My time in racing cars would say that the tire difference could very well put it ahead.

So yeah, I'm going to believe Lotus for now and listen less to the butt dynos.

You have still not answered my question. That is all guess work on the Emira where is the Empirical data. As a Engineer i do not work on guess work.

 

[benjh1028]

Here is a fairly recent copy of the Hethel lap times. The Emira time is top secret until press reviews come out.

View attachment 2756

Cool info!