You forgot - folks who went to the Track experience said the car was mega - tick
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Henry Catchpole - Carfection review
- Thread starter Nick in Sydney
- Start date
roundincircles
Emira Fanatic
tick tickYou forgot - folks who went to the Track experience said the car was mega - tick
I think the film itself whilst pretty is poor on information, enthusiasm and showcasing the car but not a negative review of the car.
Reviews in general have been really positive indicating it preforms towards the top end of its segment and is (subjectively) the best looking. BUT, its these looks I think that are a big part of the problem and the expectation of Maclaren rivaling performance.
One thing I do find curious is the few comments about engine noise, every video I've seen inside and certainly outside of the car indicates its sounds way better than my gt4. Are they all starting, and mostly driving the car, with the valves closed?
Or again is it expectation from those looks, are they expecting a howling ferrari V8 (had one of those and there's little to match it bit totally different price bracket)
Reviews in general have been really positive indicating it preforms towards the top end of its segment and is (subjectively) the best looking. BUT, its these looks I think that are a big part of the problem and the expectation of Maclaren rivaling performance.
One thing I do find curious is the few comments about engine noise, every video I've seen inside and certainly outside of the car indicates its sounds way better than my gt4. Are they all starting, and mostly driving the car, with the valves closed?
Or again is it expectation from those looks, are they expecting a howling ferrari V8 (had one of those and there's little to match it bit totally different price bracket)
This is a new car. It isn't an evolution of a previous model. Most car reviews have the straight forward job of comparing a car to its previous models. Caymans, C7 to C8, Mustang S197 to Coyote, that list goes on and on. That point is critical because they are able to take the strengths and weaknesses that have been made apparent by existing drivers and contrast them with the new model. Civic Type R, Nissan Z car, on and on.
My point is that what the Emira is and what it isn't will be determined by us, the car reviewers will then validate those opinions in their own unique way. They have already reviewed the Evora GT so if you want the Lotus with over 400HP and one of the best handling cars in the world, for a "reasonable" price, you can buy that now if you can find one.
There is a very good chance the Emira offers a balance of looks, performance, and price that has not yet been seen in the automotive industry and that is a very difficult for an automotive journalist to review without having any feedback from actual users.
Lotus has given us 3 drivetrains. Until we have all three drivetrains on the road I suspect the speculation agony will continue. However once 3 drivetrains are on the road and a variant is announced I believe we will have a very successful Emira especially in DV.
For Example: @kitkat made a post about track driving and that it's not about the fastest car, it's about driver development. If numerous beginner track drivers take their car to the track, have a ton of FUN, become better drivers, it will be known that this is one of the best track cars to buy if you are a beginner. Just an example of how the car can be viewed in coming years. That user can now go buy an Evora or Exige or GT4 or whatever if they want a track weapon because they have developed into better drivers.
My point is that what the Emira is and what it isn't will be determined by us, the car reviewers will then validate those opinions in their own unique way. They have already reviewed the Evora GT so if you want the Lotus with over 400HP and one of the best handling cars in the world, for a "reasonable" price, you can buy that now if you can find one.
There is a very good chance the Emira offers a balance of looks, performance, and price that has not yet been seen in the automotive industry and that is a very difficult for an automotive journalist to review without having any feedback from actual users.
Lotus has given us 3 drivetrains. Until we have all three drivetrains on the road I suspect the speculation agony will continue. However once 3 drivetrains are on the road and a variant is announced I believe we will have a very successful Emira especially in DV.
For Example: @kitkat made a post about track driving and that it's not about the fastest car, it's about driver development. If numerous beginner track drivers take their car to the track, have a ton of FUN, become better drivers, it will be known that this is one of the best track cars to buy if you are a beginner. Just an example of how the car can be viewed in coming years. That user can now go buy an Evora or Exige or GT4 or whatever if they want a track weapon because they have developed into better drivers.
Perhaps its the expectation that the car looks so exotic and so everything else should match. I watched Henry's video of a Boxster 718 GTS and he was all over it smiling etc but he does question the looks of it.
From what I've gathered from this forum, the car will start with the valves closed (always starts in Tour mode). A software tweak (power up in Sport or Track modes) or hardware modification (force open valve or remove valve) would be necessary for an unrestricted start.
The Emira GT4 is actually running alcons 6/4 piston setup in roughly a 380mm rotor diameter setup under those 18”. I run an even bulkier set of stoptechs in a 6/4 380mm setup as well under 18” with plenty of clearance. It just comes down to finding a set of wheel barrel that works well for this. From my research mustang track specific wheel specs fit decently and clear brakes without upsetting scrub radius too much from a vendor like Apex.
Pic attached of calipers I’m running on the m4.
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OK, I finally got a chance to watch the new Catchpole video from end to end. Great little road trip film.
Honestly, his feedback about the handling seems totally tied to alignment/geometry settings to me. He's not talking about terminal understeer of the kind classically associated with nose-heavy poorly handling FWD cars of the past, he's describing an agile mid-engine car that's not maintaining full steering precision (and instant directional control of the nose) once past probably ~90deg or more of steering wheel input in tighter mid-speed and low-speed corners.
This is stuff that can be fine-tuned with a few adjustments and can have a dramatic effect on mid-corner yaw and directional changes. Increased caster, or even a bit more static camber in the front might totally solve his complaint about tighter corners while removing a bit of the margin of "safety understeer" that they build in quite appropriately for drivers of less-than-heroic skill development.
To be blunt, these sorts of complaints from Catchpole (and also from Jethro) tell us less about the car and more about their inability to meaningfully differentiate for the audience between actual problems with a vehicle's design, and minor handling preferences that can be sorted in 20 minutes with setup changes on an alignment rack. Soooo frustrating.
There are only a few automotive journalists that are genuinely worthy of the reader's trust in their perspective about how a car drives, and can also communicate that information in a way that is properly calibrated, accessible, and relevant for their audience.
This is why people love certain "amateur" YouTube channels like Savagegeese or Everyday Driver. Those folks are doing the informative and careful/calibrated journalism part way better than a lot of the "pros". Surely better than a lot of the UK-based commercial motoring press, which seems to exist in an alternate reality entirely fueled by hype and the weird class-jumping thrill of "special access".
Honestly, his feedback about the handling seems totally tied to alignment/geometry settings to me. He's not talking about terminal understeer of the kind classically associated with nose-heavy poorly handling FWD cars of the past, he's describing an agile mid-engine car that's not maintaining full steering precision (and instant directional control of the nose) once past probably ~90deg or more of steering wheel input in tighter mid-speed and low-speed corners.
This is stuff that can be fine-tuned with a few adjustments and can have a dramatic effect on mid-corner yaw and directional changes. Increased caster, or even a bit more static camber in the front might totally solve his complaint about tighter corners while removing a bit of the margin of "safety understeer" that they build in quite appropriately for drivers of less-than-heroic skill development.
To be blunt, these sorts of complaints from Catchpole (and also from Jethro) tell us less about the car and more about their inability to meaningfully differentiate for the audience between actual problems with a vehicle's design, and minor handling preferences that can be sorted in 20 minutes with setup changes on an alignment rack. Soooo frustrating.
I think a lot of this is down to the fact that most car journalists aren't particularly talented drivers. Or they are talented drivers but are terrible journalists, in terms of actually doing that work in a rigorous, consistent, ethical, and narrative-coherent way.
There are only a few automotive journalists that are genuinely worthy of the reader's trust in their perspective about how a car drives, and can also communicate that information in a way that is properly calibrated, accessible, and relevant for their audience.
This is why people love certain "amateur" YouTube channels like Savagegeese or Everyday Driver. Those folks are doing the informative and careful/calibrated journalism part way better than a lot of the "pros". Surely better than a lot of the UK-based commercial motoring press, which seems to exist in an alternate reality entirely fueled by hype and the weird class-jumping thrill of "special access".
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At the end of every review they say the same thing. "It's a Lotus." Which in my opinion is strange journalism.
Regardless if you are a talented driver or not it is very difficult to compare something to itself.
Right? It's like these folks are incapable of using words to describe what it is they are talking about.
"Journalism" that reduces discussion of the experience of driving sports cars to some schoolyard this-fundamentally-better-than-that set of value judgements delivered in a weird narrative vacuum is not useful or interesting for most readers or consumers of their work product. Ok, so it doesn't "beat" some other thing in some specific way. Weird framing, but ok... but even in that weird hierarchical view, they could give a hell of a lot more context.
Wrapping up a negative take by saying, "don't worry, it's still a Lotus and you all know how that feels!" is lazy and kind of obnoxious, and when paired with the other journalistic sins of this whole cohort at Evo and similar UK outfits it makes me want to stop consuming UK motoring media. Chris Harris is apparently the only paid journalist left over there that can genuinely enjoy driving a car and also tell someone else why he does, without the attendant need to convince us how smart and reserved he is.
Your post is spot on as usual and I don't want to discount it.
For me, all these reviews for a brand new sports car is quite interesting. Someone said it before, when is the last time we have seen a totally new sports car with a new name? We are seeing a unique and special combination of Lotus, forum member opinions, and journalists trying to define and figure out a new car. That is very cool and frustrating at the same time! I am here for it.
MickOpalak
Emira Fan
In terms of if this was a 2022 Evora GT it would have to be an improvement over the last Evora GT. Maybe evolution isn't the correct term.
Maybe you should settle down, Mick. That's a topic that has been covered ad nauseam elsewhere here, and I haven't seen you as part of those conversations. I also suspect that you wouldn't level that kind of categorical shit-take against unibody vehicle designs that are described as "all new" despite using the exact same stamped steel manufacturing process as their predecessors.
I get that an extruded aluminum box section chassis assembled with structural adhesive is a striking and very specific thing to see in pictures, but it doesn't mean that they are all identical to each other just because they are the same shade of silver and have similar core architectural shapes.
The only dimension shared between the Evora and Emira chassis is the wheelbase. Which makes sense when you are a small financially disadvantaged manufacturer that needs to build drivable testing mules on a very restricted budget and what you have available to achieve that is prior product body panels. Wheelbase is the key constraint, so you compromise and keep that bit to make your work life easier.
That's the same as pretty much everything though so surely you press once to get the ignition on, select valves open then fire up? At least that's how I've always done it.
Tbh I normally disable the valves though so not a real issue
Lotustoronto
Emira Addict
Just re-watched the Car review with Sport / goodyears ( I originally thought it was cup 2's like harry's car )... His review in my opinion was probably the best when it came to driving dynamics. Although he ultimately picks the Porsche, his review really did the best describing the drive.
The two 'famous' reviewers who I think are the most realistic in their ability to review a car, are Chris Harris and Harry Metcalf.
First is Chris. Chris has an enormous amount of driving experience under just about any condition imaginable, with just about every car on the road, including actual race cars. Sure he slides cars around on his videos, because that's a showy thing to do and video producers like drama, but he is also able to tell what's going on with a car, understands why, and is able to articulate that. His vast amount of experience gives him an instant database of reference to be able to detect what's going on and describe it. Chris is also honest enough of an enthusiast to be able to give an honest appraisal of a car not only in various details, but as an overall package, even if it might not be exactly what the manufacturer would want to hear.
Chris really liked the Emira. In the follow-up piece with him and Jack just talking, he's very honest about it. The engine/trans was "adequate" but not exciting; didn't have any "theatre" as he put it. He then says everything else is sublime. This is from someone with considerable track experience, actual racing experience, and extensive road experience in all kinds of cars from mundane to exotic.
Now compare that to Harry's review. Harry clearly wants to be charmed by the Lotus, and really likes it too, but he's honest about the experience of driving the Sport chassis on the public roads. He didn't hide the concern that gave him. In fact it concerned him to the point of calling Lotus who sends him another car with Tour setup, and that's the magic combination for him. His summary? "This is the Lotus I've always wanted". This is from the guy who founded EVO magazine, and has a great deal of experience with road cars too, including quite a stable of cars he himself owns. He is looking for a sports car to drive for fun and take trips with.
Catchpole's reviews seem to be more and more leaning towards making motion pictures; with acting, voice and cinematography being the main focus. They're beautifully done and nice to watch, but are starting to seem more like travel channel videos than vehicle reviews. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that and I'm not bashing him, it's just not as useful to me for providing the kind of information I would be looking for to help decide about a possible vehicle purchase.
The Third reviews I place value on here, are the ones from the forum members who are going on the driving experiences at Lotus, and they're all saying it's wonderful and they can't wait to get their cars delivered. Considering what kind of experience we've all had in here thus far, it's very reassuring to see these comments from regular people who've been all set up to be disappointed with gaps of all kinds, seat quality, shifting disappointment, not enough power, etc.; all the minutiae drama we've all been drug through for the past 7 months.
In summary, Chris says he'd have a hard time choosing between an Emira and a Cayman, and then says for British roads the Emira is the better car; Harry says it's the Lotus he's always wanted; forum members who've actually driven them are thrilled and can't wait to get their cars. I think that's all the reviews I need for what I'm looking for.
Now it comes down to the next frontier of customer service and dealers. To be continued....
First is Chris. Chris has an enormous amount of driving experience under just about any condition imaginable, with just about every car on the road, including actual race cars. Sure he slides cars around on his videos, because that's a showy thing to do and video producers like drama, but he is also able to tell what's going on with a car, understands why, and is able to articulate that. His vast amount of experience gives him an instant database of reference to be able to detect what's going on and describe it. Chris is also honest enough of an enthusiast to be able to give an honest appraisal of a car not only in various details, but as an overall package, even if it might not be exactly what the manufacturer would want to hear.
Chris really liked the Emira. In the follow-up piece with him and Jack just talking, he's very honest about it. The engine/trans was "adequate" but not exciting; didn't have any "theatre" as he put it. He then says everything else is sublime. This is from someone with considerable track experience, actual racing experience, and extensive road experience in all kinds of cars from mundane to exotic.
Now compare that to Harry's review. Harry clearly wants to be charmed by the Lotus, and really likes it too, but he's honest about the experience of driving the Sport chassis on the public roads. He didn't hide the concern that gave him. In fact it concerned him to the point of calling Lotus who sends him another car with Tour setup, and that's the magic combination for him. His summary? "This is the Lotus I've always wanted". This is from the guy who founded EVO magazine, and has a great deal of experience with road cars too, including quite a stable of cars he himself owns. He is looking for a sports car to drive for fun and take trips with.
Catchpole's reviews seem to be more and more leaning towards making motion pictures; with acting, voice and cinematography being the main focus. They're beautifully done and nice to watch, but are starting to seem more like travel channel videos than vehicle reviews. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that and I'm not bashing him, it's just not as useful to me for providing the kind of information I would be looking for to help decide about a possible vehicle purchase.
The Third reviews I place value on here, are the ones from the forum members who are going on the driving experiences at Lotus, and they're all saying it's wonderful and they can't wait to get their cars delivered. Considering what kind of experience we've all had in here thus far, it's very reassuring to see these comments from regular people who've been all set up to be disappointed with gaps of all kinds, seat quality, shifting disappointment, not enough power, etc.; all the minutiae drama we've all been drug through for the past 7 months.
In summary, Chris says he'd have a hard time choosing between an Emira and a Cayman, and then says for British roads the Emira is the better car; Harry says it's the Lotus he's always wanted; forum members who've actually driven them are thrilled and can't wait to get their cars. I think that's all the reviews I need for what I'm looking for.
Now it comes down to the next frontier of customer service and dealers. To be continued....
Lotustoronto
Emira Addict
One more opinion - Jenson Button, who has driven plenty of Emira's it seems (including an i4) picks a touring chassis over sports. Also says the i4 may be the better options. It's at the end of the podcast, Starts at 28:18 for Emira content.
www.topgear.com
New TG Podcast featuring Jenson Button: listen now
2009 F1 world champion joins TG magazine for a very special edition of our pod
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