If you sold your EMIRA what’s next?

[hellasf1]

Just for fun. If you sold your EMIRA and bought another vehicle what would it be? (Around the same price or less than the EMIRA)

 

[SlavaUkraini]

My biggest complaint with McLaren, Ferrari, and even Lamborgini is the total cost of ownership. What is the sports car truly costing me based on the entertainment value, as mine are never driven daily and are just for personal entertainment?

If you look at Porsche and stick with the GT cars—for example, GT3/GT3RS/GT4/GT4 RS—and if you can get it at MSRP, ownership cost is far better than that of many sports cars because of its very slow depreciation. My buddy lost 90k on his Lamborghini and 71k on his Mclaren in one year before COVID-19 hit (2019). If he had timed it better and sold it in late 2022, he would have been, even if not up.

+ any car I own I only feel comfortable that it has a warranty on it that will truly cover it. My R8 had an extended warranty at the 5-year mark with only 17k miles, the shock started leaking, and all needed to be replaced, a very common problem on R8s. To replace them all with installation cost 11k & If I did the job with new parts it was 6k (Some will change to conventional shocks much cheaper and disable the MAG Ride). Then 4 months later the AC imploded the compressor was shaft driven, and when it went out it blew shrapnel all through the system. (Very Common occurrence with a cost of 3.5k to fix) Warranty paid for it all. My buddy's 458 gearbox and F1 module went out and it cost him over 50k to get it fixed. The dealer wanted 76k and that was before COVID pricing in 2019. An extended warranty is a must for me on any pre-owned sports car because one issue can change the cost of ownership, especially on cars north of 90k.

We don’t buy the cars as investments… they are for fun. You are putting numbers instead of a percentage. Your emira has depreciated roughly the same percentage as those other cars.

Also, the number for the gearbox on the 458 is misrepresented or the dealer was really ripping him off… they are around 30k and it was an issue on 2010 and 2011
458s. The sensor could fail due to heat. I had 34k miles on my 2014 458 but I sold it in October. Never had to replace the gearbox. The issue is if you cannot afford the car, you cannot afford the car and that’s the reality. Buy new or from the dealer with an extended warranty. If you buy a bad, used example with no PPI from some shady independent you will probably pay for something. No one can say this isn’t also true for even a civic. The difference is the cost but you pay to play at this level.

Anyway, since the Emira came out here and I didn’t get one because of the delays, I had the GT4, of course the 458 mentioned above and now I’m getting a 750s for the next fun car.

Edit: here’s a couple photos of the 458 for enjoyment

 

[Fasttoys]

We don’t buy the cars as investments… they are for fun. You are putting numbers instead of a percentage. Your emira has depreciated roughly the same percentage as those other cars.

Also, the number for the gearbox on the 458 is misrepresented or the dealer was really ripping him off… they are around 30k and it was an issue on 2010 and 2011
458s. The sensor could fail due to heat. I had 34k miles on my 2014 458 but I sold it in October. Never had to replace the gearbox. The issue is if you cannot afford the car, you cannot afford the car and that’s the reality. Buy new or from the dealer with an extended warranty. If you buy a bad, used example with no PPI from some shady independent you will probably pay for something. No one can say this isn’t also true for even a civic. The difference is the cost but you pay to play at this level.

Anyway, since the Emira came out here and I didn’t get one because of the delays, I had the GT4, of course the 458 mentioned above and now I’m getting a 750s for the next fun car.

Edit: here’s a couple photos of the 458 for enjoyment

Nice 458 love black but way to hot in Texas and I am so OCD I could never keep it clean enough. Through Covid their values did get a nice bump but then again, most cars did, good luck on your next venture.

I agree with your point, but it seems my comments have veered off the original topic. Ultimately, it's all relative—some people do buy cars as investments, and I know a few who do. However, we’re mostly talking about hyper-cars and rare, high-end models. I do agree that this is a rarity, but it does happen. Let’s be honest, many Ferrari owners don't drive their cars much, and there are various reasons for that. I’m part of multiple car clubs in my area (not loyal to just one brand), and at Ferrari events, we often joke about how some owners keep their miles low to avoid depreciation. If you buy a Ferrari from a local dealer, you play the game: get on the list, buy a used car from the dealer’s fleet, and then wait for the next newest model.

Regarding my friend, he didn’t have the best relationship with our local Ferrari dealer, and the quote he received at the time seemed very high, which is why he went to my friend's local shop. This shop had worked on Richard Rawlings’ F40 from Fast N' Loud—a funny story in itself. Here’s the history of that car.
My friend had a 2011 Ferrari 458, and I still have the original quote in an email from that repair shop. When the job was finished, it came to just over $50K, that's including installation & taxes. He had the money, as his liquid cash net worth was well over $25 million at the time, but he was still pretty upset.
Here’s the breakdown:

• 263938 DCT: $40,108.95
• Straight R&R: $3,050.00

Now, back to my original comments: these were based on some discussions I’ve had on this forum and with people I’ve met through car clubs. For example, when someone joins a club, say McLaren, they’ll ask my opinion on ownership. They might be comparing an older McLaren MP4-12C to the Emira, since the entry price for both is fairly close. But I warn them to be cautious, as I've seen this happen before. The McLaren originally cost well over $200K, and parts aren’t cheap. The overall ownership cost over a 3-year period could be significantly higher, especially if a major mechanical issue occurs.
Anyway, I didn’t expect the conversation to go in so many directions, but I just wanted to make a comment based on my experiences. One of my all-time Favorite is the 458 Speciale, its one of the great NA Ferrari experiences before Turbo & now electrification. Also, at my local dealer they had this red Pista, what a beauty that was so tempting

 

[SlavaUkraini]

Nice 458 love black but way to hot in Texas and I am so OCD I could never keep it clean enough. Through Covid their values did get a nice bump but then again, most cars did, good luck on your next venture.

I agree with your point, but it seems my comments have veered off the original topic. Ultimately, it's all relative—some people do buy cars as investments, and I know a few who do. However, we’re mostly talking about hyper-cars and rare, high-end models. I do agree that this is a rarity, but it does happen. Let’s be honest, many Ferrari owners don't drive their cars much, and there are various reasons for that. I’m part of multiple car clubs in my area (not loyal to just one brand), and at Ferrari events, we often joke about how some owners keep their miles low to avoid depreciation. If you buy a Ferrari from a local dealer, you play the game: get on the list, buy a used car from the dealer’s fleet, and then wait for the next newest model.

Regarding my friend, he didn’t have the best relationship with our local Ferrari dealer, and the quote he received at the time seemed very high, which is why he went to my friend's local shop. This shop had worked on Richard Rawlings’ F40 from Fast N' Loud—a funny story in itself. Here’s the history of that car.
My friend had a 2011 Ferrari 458, and I still have the original quote in an email from that repair shop. When the job was finished, it came to just over $50K, that's including installation & taxes. He had the money, as his liquid cash net worth was well over $25 million at the time, but he was still pretty upset.
Here’s the breakdown:

• 263938 DCT: $40,108.95
• Straight R&R: $3,050.00

Now, back to my original comments: these were based on some discussions I’ve had on this forum and with people I’ve met through car clubs. For example, when someone joins a club, say McLaren, they’ll ask my opinion on ownership. They might be comparing an older McLaren MP4-12C to the Emira, since the entry price for both is fairly close. But I warn them to be cautious, as I've seen this happen before. The McLaren originally cost well over $200K, and parts aren’t cheap. The overall ownership cost over a 3-year period could be significantly higher, especially if a major mechanical issue occurs.
Anyway, I didn’t expect the conversation to go in so many directions, but I just wanted to make a comment based on my experiences. One of my all-time Favorite is the 458 Speciale, its one of the great NA Ferrari experiences before Turbo & now electrification. Also, at my local dealer they had this red Pista, what a beauty that was so tempting
View attachment 56682

Thanks. I quite like black on cars, so I tend to go that route and get them ppf’d then ceramic’d, which helps some but they still show dirt somewhat easy.

As for purchasing cars as investments, it’s a stupid idea that doesn’t pan out. Only 3 or 4 cars in history have ever beat the S&P. There are limited run models or some other special cars that may not depreciate much, or in some cases even appreciate for a time, but nothing is an investment. That doesn’t even take into consideration the ownership, storage and maintenance fees of them after purchase before selling. Guys like to say they bought a car for 250k and sold it 3 years later for 255k and “made 5k” on the car, not pointing out the money spent on the car while they had it…

I won’t go much into the Ferrari dealer game you talk about because it’s not very accurate (lists exist primarily for limited cars, they don’t do ADMs but ROFR, etc), and also dealer games apply to all exotic marques. Porsche sucks a lot with their games (15% spec price AND a Porsche watch for a GT car is not uncommon). Hell, since Covid you had to pay ADM for a ford raptor and even then it would probably be sold to the GM’s cousin at the end.

I agree with the point about the MP4-12C. I wouldn’t touch that car with a 12ft pole. That car is special with how poorly it’s built. Even so, if you buy a 10-15 year old exotic car, expect to pay to have it repaired. This is exasperated when someone doesn’t do their due diligence and buys, often times without a PPI and from some third party dealership. Best of luck to anyone going this route, just hope the car hasn’t also been tuned. This it not any different than other cars on the market. 15 year old Porsches and Lotus’s cost similar % of their msrp (rather than current value) to repair.

Agree about the Speciale and Pista. Awesome cars. Both look fantastic. The Speciale sounds amazing but I think I’d rather have the Pista. I’ve had the chance to track a Pista, and really enjoyed it, but have not driven or even been in a Speciale yet.

Good conversation, thanks.

 

[Fasttoys]

I love black cars but way too much pollen in my area, blankets it with yellow during spring & summer. Ferrari Boardwalk in Plano Texas has been playing the game for a long while. But it all depends on your geography location. Their are ways around any process but on any new Ferrari they sell you the expect it sold back to them. Break their rules and good luck. John good friend order his pista, wanted carbon everything, car was not released. Car arrived before he ever got all the pricing.. I was at his event picking up his La-Ferrari he said he would never sell it till Ferrari invited him to have the convertible. Big Ferrari nut but then again Italian blood as my family was born in Italy before moving to the USA,

 

[SlavaUkraini]

I love black cars but way too much pollen in my area, blankets it with yellow during spring & summer. Ferrari Boardwalk in Plano Texas has been playing the game for a long while. But it all depends on your geography location. Their are ways around any process but on any new Ferrari they sell you the expect it sold back to them. Break their rules and good luck. John good friend order his pista, wanted carbon everything, car was not released. Car arrived before he ever got all the pricing.. I was at his event picking up his La-Ferrari he said he would never sell it till Ferrari invited him to have the convertible. Big Ferrari nut but then again Italian blood as my family was born in Italy before moving to the USA,

The right of first refusal is only for the first year. That is a better deal than ADM, imo at least.

Anyway, I prefer the way McLaren does business.

 

[Fasttoys]

The right of first refusal is only for the first year. That is a better deal than ADM, imo at least.

Anyway, I prefer the way McLaren does business.

In my area it’s been two years, but they still expected it returned to their dealer if you ever wanted another car from them again. I played the game & been on these dopey list. Porsche has gone nuts with the GT cars, I was talking to the GM at Park Place Porsche in Grapevine & said Covid has made them crazy. A new GT4-RS at MSRP was available but need to buy a loaded SUV to make the deal close. They would not budge on the loaded new white GT4-RS but had this red used one with some low miles, it had full wrap & sold from under me. Also have a white one with 443 miles for 221k, not a white car guy and it’s available.

 

[Tomwa]

I know these dealers can claim any number of things about why a customer is not eligible for the sale. Or any number of other claims about pricing.

But what they are doing IS ILLEGAL. It is firmly decided by US federal law, that you cannot withhold selling an item by first gateing it/pricing it to include a required other purchase. Whether that's an "exclusive watch" that no one actually wants and has awful resale, or another car that you also don't want etc.

Honestly it's getting so bad with the Porsche dealers network I think there should be a class action lawsuit.

Wah rich people 1st world problems. But it's actually criminal

 

[cyanmauve]

Overall...they are a bit fatiguing to look at. There just doesn't seem to be a natural focus or a flow to the body, so your eye just gets lost and you glaze over.

McLaren styling reminds me of a sleek athletic shoe. Flashy, communicates speed, but ultimately forgettable styling and incoherent.

 

[Fasttoys]

I know these dealers can claim any number of things about why a customer is not eligible for the sale. Or any number of other claims about pricing.

But what they are doing IS ILLEGAL. It is firmly decided by US federal law, that you cannot withhold selling an item by first gateing it/pricing it to include a required other purchase. Whether that's an "exclusive watch" that no one actually wants and has awful resale, or another car that you also don't want etc.

Honestly it's getting so bad with the Porsche dealers network I think there should be a class action lawsuit.

Wah rich people 1st world problems. But it's actually criminal

That’s really interesting! I’d be shocked if this was a federal law. If it’s true, it would likely vary based on state laws. This could make for a great post: What are your thoughts on ADM (Additional Dealer Markup) situation, and why are manufacturers letting independent dealers get away with these practices?

Take the new ZR1, for example with 1067 HP and 800+ lb.-ft of torque, with many on a waitlist claiming to be at MSRP, but dealers are now denying those orders without a ADM. These dealers promised MSRP two years when they took deposit, and now some are asking for $50K to $100K ADM over MSRP. People with disposable income are feeding this frenzy & are to blame too.

 

[Tomwa]

I'll do a bit more digging but I had found a consumer protection code for this specific scenario. (But have since lost it)

But all else you could claim it is a bait and switch. Which is to say "I want that car you say costs $$$" and the response being "ok...you can have that car only if it's bundled with this other car that will cost $$ on top". The whole thing really needs to be clearly called out in consumer protection rights.

 

[SlavaUkraini]

McLaren styling reminds me of a sleek athletic shoe. Flashy, communicates speed, but ultimately forgettable styling and incoherent.

Looks are subjective of course, but I tend to agree that an F8 looks better than a 720. With that said, the 720 (don’t even mention the 765LT) is so much better than anything Ferrari or Lamborghini has put out in terms of driving quality recently. RWD Mid engine cars belong to McLaren if you want to talk about a drivers car. Steering, braking, visibility, suspension, etc is just miles ahead.

The 296 is a good drivers car that’s true, but before that for Ferrari nothing compared. The interior is awful though.

 

[308tr6]

I am looking for a McLaren 570S next. Thinking of putting my Emira up for sale one of these days if anyone is interested.

 

[SlavaUkraini]

I am looking for a McLaren 570S next. Thinking of putting my Emira up for sale one of these days if anyone is interested.

Here’s what I’ll tell you. That car is significantly more reliable than the 12C, but there are still things to watch out for. You absolutely MUST get a PPI from someone knowledgeable. Set aside a couple grand a year for service and “just in case” fund. Whatever you don’t use, keep for when you will need it. Keep it on a trickle charger at all times. Make sure the fob has battery, etc.

Now that I got that out of the way, you will like the 570 significantly more than the Emira. It’s way quicker, the seating position and visibility are also better. Completely a race feeling, especially with the hydraulic minded rack that McLaren has. Braking with a McLaren is something that most people need to get used to. It’s very hard, and the pedal seems to travel a far way. It’s just like a race car. If you spend a few hours in the Mac and then go to one of your other cars you will probably end up slamming on the brakes out of habit, hahaha. Overall, you will really enjoy the car. Its
a proper sports car and handles like one, even today. I can go on and on

 

[GlynV6]

Having recently sold the Emira, this is my replacement:

The handling and steering have a similar feel to the Emira, just that the dial is turned up to 11.
I was going to buy a 570S Spider, then saw this 600LT Spider at the dealer and my man math calculator went into overdrive resulting in significant budget drift
Interestingly the McLaren salesman had just taken in an Emira in part-exchange for a GT and commented that a lot of his customers were either former or current Lotus owners too.

 

[SlavaUkraini]

Having recently sold the Emira, this is my replacement:

View attachment 56766

The handling and steering have a similar feel to the Emira, just that the dial is turned up to 11.
I was going to buy a 570S Spider, then saw this 600LT Spider at the dealer and my man math calculator went into overdrive resulting in significant budget drift
Interestingly the McLaren salesman had just taken in an Emira in part-exchange for a GT and commented that a lot of his customers were either former or current Lotus owners too.

Congratulations! Love the 600LT. Can’t beat that exhaust! Enjoy it in good health my man

 

[308tr6]

Wow I didn't expect the McLaren crowd to respond here, but very good to hear from you guys. I have always told people my Lotus is a gateway car to the McLaren. Of course McLarens have their share of haters (rightfully and wrongfully so), but I see way more positives than negatives. Price wise it is also very interesting to see the Artura's coming in below the $200k mark, so as much as they are loved/hated as well it is hard to not consider given you can get a 5 year warranty.

So my list is either a 570S, 600LT, or Artura just depending on what example I can find that ticks all my boxes and budget.

 

[Suprluminal]

Having recently sold the Emira, this is my replacement:

View attachment 56766

The handling and steering have a similar feel to the Emira, just that the dial is turned up to 11.
I was going to buy a 570S Spider, then saw this 600LT Spider at the dealer and my man math calculator went into overdrive resulting in significant budget drift
Interestingly the McLaren salesman had just taken in an Emira in part-exchange for a GT and commented that a lot of his customers were either former or current Lotus owners too.

I would definitely see McLaren as the next step after Lotus if moving to a higher budget car. They are absolutely beautiful and amazing to drive! And in my very personal opinion, more aligned to lotus enthusiasts as they are less obvious than lambos or ferraris.

 

[Ceej]

Wow I didn't expect the McLaren crowd to respond here, but very good to hear from you guys. I have always told people my Lotus is a gateway car to the McLaren. Of course McLarens have their share of haters (rightfully and wrongfully so), but I see way more positives than negatives. Price wise it is also very interesting to see the Artura's coming in below the $200k mark, so as much as they are loved/hated as well it is hard to not consider given you can get a 5 year warranty.

So my list is either a 570S, 600LT, or Artura just depending on what example I can find that ticks all my boxes and budget.

I’m new to learning about McLarens. Any reason why the 650s isn’t on your list?

 

[308tr6]

I do like the 650S, but for me at least it does seem a little dated in style (I don't care for the rear end as much) I don't know if you watch Harry's Garage (you tuber, ex EVO magazine guy), but he went from a Lotus Emira to a 650S and loves it. Good series to watch if you don't already.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Having recently sold the Emira, this is my replacement:

View attachment 56766

The handling and steering have a similar feel to the Emira, just that the dial is turned up to 11.
I was going to buy a 570S Spider, then saw this 600LT Spider at the dealer and my man math calculator went into overdrive resulting in significant budget drift
Interestingly the McLaren salesman had just taken in an Emira in part-exchange for a GT and commented that a lot of his customers were either former or current Lotus owners too.

That is a beauty, congrats!