Only three more years of ICE Emira?

[Nick in Sydney]

The headline spec for Type 135 puts it in the Emira category rather than Elise.

Lotus couldn’t assume the EU-imposed timeframe for ICE sales ending would move. So they had to commit to a new EV sports car to join the model range after Type 134.

They’ve got some flexibility on when to ramp down and end V6 and i4 sales, depending on what happens with legislation and demand in different regions. Type 135 launch has a specific timeframe and they’ll build an extra factory at Hethel for it, so it’s not directly connected to Emira production capacity.

Agreed. But what's all this talk about "converting the Emira to BEV" in the investor presentations? It seems unlikely that they would repeatedly say this in multiple presentations if it wasn't the plan.

 

[Porter]

Agreed. But what's all this talk about "converting the Emira to BEV" in the investor presentations? It seems unlikely that they would repeatedly say this in multiple presentations if it wasn't the plan.

It may be a new plan.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Agreed. But what's all this talk about "converting the Emira to BEV" in the investor presentations? It seems unlikely that they would repeatedly say this in multiple presentations if it wasn't the plan.

maybe its converting the Emira production into EV not the vehicle itself?

 

[TomE]

It does seem odd. The Emira wasn’t designed with hybrid or electric powertrains in mind and it was always the plan to use the new LEVA architecture for Type 135.

The Evora was used for a couple of hybrid and electric prototypes, so in theory it could be done for Emira. But you’d think they’d want to use a new EV-specific platform rather than a 14 year old chassis. And why do an electric Emira and Type 135, both similar sports cars.

 

[Tokion]

The headline spec for Type 135 puts it in the Emira category rather than Elise.

Lotus couldn’t assume the EU-imposed timeframe for ICE sales ending would move. So they had to commit to a new EV sports car to join the model range after Type 134.

They’ve got some flexibility on when to ramp down and end V6 and i4 sales, depending on what happens with legislation and demand in different regions. Type 135 launch has a specific timeframe and they’ll build an extra factory at Hethel for it, so it’s not directly connected to Emira production capacity.

Thanks TomE. This is exactly as I had thought the development and plans for Lotus Hethel sports cars will be.

Years ago (ca 2011 - 2012) I had a special opportunity to borrow a brand new electric Tesla Roadster S from Tesla Japan to use it for radiation monitoring (we mounted a recording Geiger counter at a specified height) after the Fukushima nuclear reactor melt-down. We drove it through the evening (from 6PM and into the night). It was an amazing experience to drive this “basically an electric Lotus - ahead of its time”. Super-fast and agile. But it was very raw and rough with the body rattling and making noises that were more audible because of the lack of (ICE) engine noise.

 

[Tokion]

Agreed. But what's all this talk about "converting the Emira to BEV" in the investor presentations? It seems unlikely that they would repeatedly say this in multiple presentations if it wasn't the plan.

You have to be aware that the people making write-ups for investors and other commercial or PR purposes are copywriters (not engineers) that takes wild liberties in making their texts looks attractive and palatable to said investors. Usually not fact-based.

 

[Lotustoronto]

What are the chances that ICE production is scheduled to end in 2026? - As Tom pointed out, they have the liberty of changing this target due to EU regs etc., However I do wonder if the Eletre tech being so far superior will start to make Emira dated by 2026. Three years is not that far, I suppose we will have to see how the competition progress. If electric 718's from Porsche start selling well, could we see Lotus make a more aggressive move to stop ICE production?

 

[TomE]

They have bought themselves flexibility. The extra production facility they will be building at Hethel will be for Type 135. But they can build EVs on the existing line too.

If there’s still demand for ICE cars beyond 2026, they could continue building Emira. Or if demand for EV sports cars takes off they could increase EV production through the current factory. They can run multi-shift in both factories, so they can change volumes and splits between models.

The original Vision80 plan was to stop ICE when Type 135 started production, but it’s not clear if that was explicitly linked to EU legislative change timing or a strategic shift to all-EV.

I can see them continuing ICE production while there is still demand and legislation allows, provided they’re at least as profitable as the EVs. But I don’t think they’d design another ICE car after Emira. An Emira model life beyond 2026 to say 2030 could be feasible. But if EV demand ramps up a lot, they’ll likely turn the current factory over to building EVs.

 

[Nick in Sydney]

You have to be aware that the people making write-ups for investors and other commercial or PR purposes are copywriters (not engineers) that takes wild liberties in making their texts looks attractive and palatable to said investors. Usually not fact-based.

Wrong. The people writing investor presentations for SPACS are primarily investment bankers with lawyers looking very, very, closely over their shoulders to avoid investor class actions or SEC violations. This is not about font sizes or pretty colours. In multiple presentations lodged with the SEC Lotus has stated that the Emira is going to be converted to a BEV.

 

[Tokion]

Wrong. The people writing investor presentations for SPACS are primarily investment bankers with lawyers looking very, very, closely over their shoulders to avoid investor class actions or SEC violations. This is not about font sizes or pretty colours. In multiple presentations lodged with the SEC Lotus has stated that the Emira is going to be converted to a BEV.

Dear Nick

Wanna bet on whether the Emira model ever shows up as a pure BEV (with the same name, or just with a couple of added letters), or not

I personally think that some electric element, with a smaller battery (in an 48V system) and a different version of the DCT gearbox has a greater likelihood to be added to the, still ICE, Emira along the way.

Besides, a close friend of mine actually was employed as a copywriter in the automotive industry. As long as those lawyers around clear a write-up so there will be no legal complications or obligations, the copywriters are actually free to write Oracle-like “possibilities” about the future. In no way is Lotus now committed to deliver a pure Emira BEV. I am sure the lawyers took care of that before those texts were released.

Only the future will give us the answer, and I will hedge by saying that I could possibly loose the bet. It is all friendly chat herein our lovely forum.

 

[Tokion]

I have done some more follow up and looked at the SPAC investor presentations, the latest of is from July 2023. (My own background is in Economics and Business Administration, and I have run my own luxury goods company based in Japan for the last 40 years. Admittedly the scale is diminutive as compared to what Geely and friends are up to. Ha ha ha.)

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1841024/000110465923083215/tm236957d11_425.htm

I do not find any reference to turning the Emira into becoming a BEV in this latest July SPARC Investor Presentation? If anyone can show me that it is included in “the fine print”, please feel free to show me.

Here it clearly says: <<Lotus Technology does not include the traditional sports car assets of Lotus, which was founded in 1948.>>

There is also an illustration of Lotus Emira proudly described as: <<The most accomplished Lotus ever made>>

And when you carefully study the illustration/photo it says: <<1,405kg LIGHTWEIGHT BEV>>, which is a glaring error since (currently) the Emira is not at all a BEV.

I have also seen other reports that LOTUS CARS at Hethel, UK are (so far) not included as a part of the Lotus BEV business structure. But I am sure that steps are taken to integrate it sooner or later, especially when a new factory is established at Hethel for the next Type 135 BEV sportscar. The question really is how long the traditional ICE factory is allowed to continue its existence and activity?

Maybe this depends on the L Catterton organization that controls the overall worldwide huge investments into Lotus (Technology) as a luxury BEV Brand? (They are the ones that makes the fancy SPAC investment presentations.)

It also says: The SPAC is affiliated with Bernard Arnault, the world’s richest man (of LMVH luxury brand conglomerate fame.)

L Catterton Asia Acquisition Corp is “a blank check company” incorporated as a Cayman corporation for the purpose of effecting a merger, capital stock exchange, asset acquisition, stock purchase, reorganization or similar business combination with one or more businesses or entities.”

https://www.lcaac.com/

By the way; here is an explanation of what is a SPAC: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/...AC) is formed to raise,value of $10 per share.

 

[Nick in Sydney]

I do not find any reference to turning the Emira into becoming a BEV in this latest July SPARC Investor Presentation? If anyone can show me that it is included in “the fine print”, please feel free to show me.

Page 15, footnote 4

 

[eriegz]

Page 15, footnote 4

View attachment 31231

Wow, great find, and that's huge if true!

 

[Tokion]

Page 15, footnote 4

View attachment 31231

I salute you Nick for finding this “footnote”. There is still the statement that the Lotus Technology deal in January 2023 did not include the traditional sports car assets of Lotus, which was founded in 1948.

And there is also the clear error that the current Emira is described as 1405kg LIGHTWEIGHT BEV.

I have also read elsewhere (in addition to the statement that the traditional sportscar assets of Lotus were not included in the Lotus Technology deal of January 2023) that although Geely owns 51% of Lotus Cars in the UK, it was not a part of the pure January 2023 BEV only Lotus Technology deal.

Like I have said before; this is of course subject to changes to the Lotus Technology deal; and I have also noticed that a new Lotus Group company: LOTUS TECHNOLOGY INNOVATIVE LIMITED was set up in the UK this year to take over responsibility for “sales and aftersales” presumably of all Lotus models.

Lotus Technology Innovative Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 13337498 and with registered office address of Unit 6 Doyle Drive, Blackburn Road Industrial Estate, Coventry, CV6, 6NW.

Interestingly the above location seems to be over 2 hours drive away from Hethel. But I assume it is only for business registration purposes?

So maybe this is indeed a “nail in the coffin” for the traditional sportscar assets of the original Lotus, and that indeed they may be attempting to convert the Emira to BEV (unless the next Type 135 does the job better, and it makes more sense to “kill off the Emira” instead of re-engineering it into becoming a BEV). Remember it will only be the i4 left at this point, and so far it has been overwhelmed by criticism from the car press. But we can hope for improvements and a positive change of mood over the coming few years.

So, dear Nick; I hope you understand that I am not attempting to fight you, but rather strive to support and supplement your findings so we together can read the Hethel Lotus (Cars) future with more accuracy.

Cheers

 

[Tokion]

if they continue with their teething problems with emira, and have no reliability issues with the Wuhan EV products, I suspect the switch will come sooner

It is worth noting that the Wuhan Lotus products are hardly in the hands of regular customers (owners) yet, so the reliability of them will only be verified after a considerable number of them have been registered and delivered to end users and driven for some time on regular roads and streets.

 

[TomE]

Very true, and there seems to be a growing level of grumbling amongst UK Eletre deposit holders about further delays and poor comms. I was told a week ago that first UK dealer demo cars and customer deliveries would be happening around now, but a number of customers in the first batch seem to have had emails in the last few days pushing their dates back several weeks. I don't have any details but it seems to be on a few forums and Facebook groups.

 

[Lotustoronto]

To me the telling sign that Emira might be converted to BEV or redesigned in some way to accommodate battery packs.
3 BEV sports cars by 2027.

Also they want type 135 to be at 15K production annually. This would clearly see Emira production get taken over as Hethel won't be close to those production figures. All strong evidence that they "plan" to convert Emira to BEV / end ICE by 2027. I still think if there is demand they will continue to build ICE Emira's, but the evidence does show it would be going away sooner than later.

 

[virtualmacho]

I wouldn’t mind if the Bespoke Division started retrofitting blown engines with batteries and motors, and called them "Emira BEV".

 

[EspritGuy]

I wouldn’t mind if the Bespoke Division started retrofitting blown engines with batteries and motors, and called them "Emira BEV".

Emira BE launch edition.

 

[Lotustoronto]

imagine if Emira's side air intakes are turned into Venturi tunnels a la Evija? A true smaller Evija, with larger openings to the rear .... that would be pretty damn cool in the sub 100K (Gbp) BEV.

who wants to do some photoshop on what an BEV Emira would look like?