Reviews, Opinions and Emotions

[DrD]

Now that a lot of reviews have come out, there's already a fair amount of emotion forming amongst the enthusiasm in this forum. There's a lot of positive news, but it's always tempting to latch on to things you don't want to hear or that don't align with your own priorities. For people forming their opinions on these reviews, what's worth noting is the difference between the reviewer's priorities.

One example is I used in the suspension thread is Jethro and Evos track review against Harry's road review:

Jethro categorically states that he doesn't understand why anyone would spec tour suspension in his track review - whilst comparing it to a gt4. In comparison Harry back to backs both suspension, you can see how busy the ride looks in sports and how much more compliant the ride looks in tour. He even states that he's changing his own spec to go from sports to tour.

If nothing else it shows what matters to reviewers (and in Jethro's case, a professional racing driver), Vs real world experience for you and I. Whether or not we're driving down a b road with a busy ride wishing we'd compromise some outright performance for something a little more liveable.


I'm not sure I entirely agree opinions that these reviewers are being bought out by different manufacturers. Having said that - those that know Jethro, know he's both a semi professional racing driver and also someone whose fun time is driving at the limit and beyond, hard on track. Ultimate performance matters to him. Whereas the likes of Rory Reid, Harry Metcalfe and Matt Watson are more of a breed of: this is a car you'll live with, how does it make you feel? Will you like living with it?

All in all, if ultimate performance in comparison to any other road machine matters, Evo's review tells you a lot. In comparison if you like the Emira and wanted to know whether or not it'll make you giddy and happy - I'd say the other reviews do a brilliant job of affirming that.


I'd highly recommend to those considering cancelling deposits to work out what actually matters to them. Whether they want the best comparable performance machine - if so, go get a GT4, or wait for a Emira GT of some sort. Or... Do you like the car and will it make you happy?

Naturally the biggest problems for us early depositors is the fact that we can't drive the cars and we're getting delivery soon. At least in the UK, you're under no obligation to accept a contract on a car prior to driving it. With the current waiting list for the car, there will be no shed tears by either lotus or the dealer if you turn around on the day you finally drive the car, and say "no thanks, I don't want it". They will no doubt be very very happy to take your allocation back...

Unless you get yellow with tan...

 

[Tonyshepp]

Now that a lot of reviews have come out, there's already a fair amount of emotion forming amongst the enthusiasm in this forum. For people forming their opinions on these reviews, what's worth noting is the difference between the reviewer's priorities.

One example is I used in the suspension thread is Jethro and Evos track review against Harry's road review:

Jethro categorically states that he doesn't understand why anyone would spec tour suspension in his track review - whilst comparing it to a gt4. In comparison Harry back to backs both suspension, you can see how busy the ride looks in sports and how much more compliant the ride looks in tour. He even states that he's changing his own spec to go from sports to tour.


If nothing else it shows what matters to reviewers (and in Jethro's case, a professional racing driver), Vs real world experience for you and I. Whether or not we're driving down a b road with a busy ride wishing we'd compromise some outright performance for something a little more liveable.


I'm not sure I entirely agree opinions that these reviewers are being bought out by different manufacturers. Having said that - those that know Jethro, know he's both a semi professional racing driver and also someone whose fun time is driving at the limit and beyond, hard on track. Ultimate performance matters to him. Whereas the likes of Rory Reid, Harry Metcalfe and Matt Watson are more of a breed of: this is a car you'll live with, how does it make you feel? Will you like living with it?

All in all, if ultimate performance in comparison to any other road machine matters, Evo's review tells you a lot. In comparison if you like the Emira and wanted to know whether or not it'll make you giddy and happy - I'd say the other reviews do a brilliant job of affirming that.


I'd highly recommend to those considering cancelling deposits to work out what actually matters to them. Whether they want the best comparable performance machine - if so, go get a GT4, or wait for a Emira GT of some sort. Or... Do you like the car and will it make you happy?

Naturally the biggest problems for us early depositors is the fact that we can't drive the cars and we're getting delivery soon. At least in the UK, you're under no obligation to accept a contract on a car prior to driving it. With the current waiting list for the car, there will be no shed tears by either lotus or the dealer if you turn around on the day you finally drive the car, and say "no thanks, I don't want it". They will no doubt be very very happy to take your allocation back...

Unless you get yellow with tan...

Whilst i agree with you mostly, anyone even further down the ordering line will want to test drive the car before commitment. Other cars that may be available like the GT4 or GTS have such long waiting times that it literally feels like this car or nowt.
If Lotus are reading these reviews and want to make suitable changes we will know soon enough as the delays for delivery of the cars will be pushed out.
I cant drive any of my cars at 100% as i'm not that good a driver but i want to make sure the gearbox and engine feel right for me; until now that was a given - with so many iffy reviews on gearbox and engine that's now a problem for me.

 

[DrD]

Whilst i agree with you mostly, anyone even further down the ordering line will want to test drive the car before commitment. Other cars that may be available like the GT4 or GTS have such long waiting times that it literally feels like this car or nowt.
If Lotus are reading these reviews and want to make suitable changes we will know soon enough as the delays for delivery of the cars will be pushed out.
I cant drive any of my cars at 100% as i'm not that good a driver but i want to make sure the gearbox and engine feel right for me; until now that was a given - with so many iffy reviews on gearbox and engine that's now a problem for me.

I think that's fair. Your point stands about expectations! I think I kept my expectations meager for the engine and gearbox knowing its origins based on a Camry engine and diesel rav4 gearbox. For me it was going to be: as long as it's as sonorous as it can be in the modern era I'll be content. I assumed given previous Evoras the shift would be good enough, but not the highlight of the car. That seems to be true of most reviews.

I think my wider point was based on: the car is so much more than just an engine or gearbox. It seems it's not perfection, as often a Porsche dynamically is. But as an all round package it seems to do a lot right. Especially considering it does some things better - like the phenomenal design!

At the end of the day, you're entirely right, what matters to you, is what should matter to you. Don't worry about what matters to the reviewers, it's only there to give you more information. Once you get your butt in a car and hear the noise, move the gear leaver, no doubt that'll be far more important to you than what some stranger on the internet says to you!

 

[CarGuy07]

Definitely mixed reactions for me for sure. Reviews are mostly good but it’s not overwhelming. I would expect reviews to be glowingly positive and the Emira doing everything a Porsche 718 GTS can do, if not better. Think about it: a car that performs as well as the 718 GTS, more exotic, and is cheaper? That would be a Porsche killer. I will have to test drive this but as of now I’m pretty much on the fence.

 

[Tonyshepp]

Definitely mixed reactions for me for sure. Reviews are mostly good but it’s not overwhelming. I would expect reviews to be glowingly positive and the Emira doing everything a Porsche 718 GTS can do, if not better. Think about it: a car that performs as well as the 718 GTS, more exotic, and is cheaper? That would be a Porsche killer. I will have to test drive this but as of now I’m pretty much on the fence.

I think that's the killer statement we'd expect it not being a GT4 rival but slightly better than a GTS - which to most reviews it isn't.

 

[FederGigant]

I watched all reviews now and think that the EVO review was a bit too negative, however I see where the guy's coming from. What Porsche is doing is building the best performing cars for the track since forever, especially if there is a GT batch on it. Did anybody really think that the Emira would outperform a more expensive GT4 on a track? Why should it? First the guys from Porsche also made their homework and know better than anybody else what they are doing whilst having more budget than anybody else and second track performance was never a top priority for the Emira.
As for engine and gearbox: I've seen every Evora review ever made and rarely anybody said one bad thing about the engine. They rather all said that it has a very linear power delivery, great sound, and real character. However the redline could be a tiny bit higher. On the gearbox side of things, nearly everybody was pleased with it, but Porsche or Mazda in the MX-5/Miata seem to do an even better job. And no surprise, it's the same for the Emira. That doesn't mean that it's bad, it only seems as if you have to get used to it and that there are two or three better feeling transmissions out there. Where's the problem?
A big plus for my overall feeling was the sequence I chose to watch all those reviews in. I somehow managed it to go from negative to positive starting with EVO and ending with Harry's garage. Everybody except EVO was very positive, Autocar and CAR magazine both said that it's a really tough call between Cayman GTS and Emira (which is the biggest compliment that you can get) and Harry smiled like a kid the whole time and said what I wanted to hear: It's the Lotus he always wanted and it's well worth the wait.
The people who thought Lotus can build a car that beats Porsche in every category at a cheaper price point out of nowhere just have to wake up now I guess.

 

[kitkat]

I'm not sure I entirely agree opinions that these reviewers are being bought out by different manufacturers. Having said that - those that know Jethro, know he's both a semi professional racing driver and also someone whose fun time is driving at the limit and beyond, hard on track. Ultimate performance matters to him. Whereas the likes of Rory Reid, Harry Metcalfe and Matt Watson are more of a breed of: this is a car you'll live with, how does it make you feel? Will you like living with it?

Finally a well thought out take on this! it's all about perspective and figuring out which reviewer should resonate with you as a driver more.

For everyone else, if you find you didn't like a review because they didn't confirm your pre-existing biases -- it doesn't mean the reviewer is on the take, they just don't share your exact values -- and that's okay.

 

[CarGuy07]

@FederGigant - I’ll offer a different take on what you said here. And this is not meant to be argumentative as we are all enthusiasts and have our own opinions.

This is my first time seriously considering a Lotus after almost 20 years being in BMW and Porsche camp. I have watched countless videos on the Evora vs Cayman in preparation/build up to the Emira. Virtually all reviews said that the Evora was a better driver’s car. That got me very excited and I had formed the opinion that the Emira would be everything a Cayman is and more (more rare, smaller manufacturer, more driver focused, etc.).

I did not expect for it to outrun a GT4, but it should be on par with a GTS considering how close they are on price. Let’s say we give up some quality that we would get on a Porsche vs Lotus. We should then expect better performance in exchange. Neither of this is true. So then what is Lotus’s value proposition: the good looks and rarity?

 

[Speedluvver]

What also makes me laugh is that every other time the Cayman is driven, they complain about the long gearing and here it was forgotten... Carlow, Autotrader and Harry like the gearshift, and I reckon the Autocar test car probably needed new fluid after someone else had killed the brakes on track before they had it... thats normally a soft pedal

 

[BeHappy]

So you can change your suspension set-up without delaying your order ? - as states Harry is changing his. I don’t know what to do regarding this as the reviews seem to be different on this subject. I choose sports now not sure - my last car was R8 so will I find sports ok on our shitty roads ? I’ve never driven a Lotus. I will not be tracking the car

 

[jamesbxxx]

So you can change your suspension set-up without delaying your order ? - as states Harry is changing his. I don’t know what to do regarding this as the reviews seem to be different on this subject. I choose sports now not sure - my last car was R8 so will I find sports ok on our shitty roads ? I’ve never driven a Lotus. I will not be tracking the car

Expect to be bumped to some time (TBC) in 2023. I was, but think it's worth getting what you want.

 

[FederGigant]

@FederGigant - I’ll offer a different take on what you said here. And this is not meant to be argumentative as we are all enthusiasts and have our own opinions.

This is my first time seriously considering a Lotus after almost 20 years being in BMW and Porsche camp. I have watched countless videos on the Evora vs Cayman in preparation/build up to the Emira. Virtually all reviews said that the Evora was a better driver’s car. That got me very excited and I had formed the opinion that the Emira would be everything a Cayman is and more (more rare, smaller manufacturer, more driver focused, etc.).

I did not expect for it to outrun a GT4, but it should be on par with a GTS considering how close they are on price. Let’s say we give up some quality that we would get on a Porsche vs Lotus. We should then expect better performance in exchange. Neither of this is true. So then what is Lotus’s value proposition: the good looks and rarity?

Who said that it's a worse drivers car than a GTS 4.0? As you said, many reviewers liked the driving experience in the Evora more than in the Cayman, now they are criticizing Engine and Gearbox while also saying it is better than in the Evora (gearbox at least). In my head, if the Emira is better than the Evora and the Evora better than the Cayman, how did they manage it to make the Emira look worse than the Cayman now? Every time the Evora was mentioned, they stated that the Emira is doing a better job, no matter what category they were talking about.
I really don't think that the engine got worse than in the Evora, nor did the gearbox. Handling wise the car got a bit heavier and isn't as serious of a track car as the GT430 and GT410 Sport were, but a better road car. And I think in that verdict lies the truth. Maybe that one year of waiting and hoping just raised all your expectations a bit too much.

 

[NickR]

So you can change your suspension set-up without delaying your order ? - as states Harry is changing his. I don’t know what to do regarding this as the reviews seem to be different on this subject. I choose sports now not sure - my last car was R8 so will I find sports ok on our shitty roads ? I’ve never driven a Lotus. I will not be tracking the car

Did you choose Goodyear or Cup2? My understanding is that there is a geometry change for the road tyres so it may not be so harsh as the pure sport setup.
Any change is 2023 now

 

[r1lee]

I can honestly say I have very mixed emotions right now on the Emira. Just like hot models, you lust for the looks, but you fall in love with the personality. What i got out of all those reviews were, meh. When I drive my Lexus LC, It is a gorgeous looking car, but like the emira, it is not fast. But boy, does the LC have a beautiful exhaust and engine note, everything about the "driving" portion of the car is hands down a winner for me. Every reviewer of that car says exactly the same thing.

I will wait till the test car is delivered before i proceed with the i4. I'm now leaning towards a base 911 C4.

 

[cars4fun]

Definitely mixed reactions for me for sure. Reviews are mostly good but it’s not overwhelming. I would expect reviews to be glowingly positive and the Emira doing everything a Porsche 718 GTS can do, if not better. Think about it: a car that performs as well as the 718 GTS, more exotic, and is cheaper? That would be a Porsche killer. I will have to test drive this but as of now I’m pretty much on the fence.

Agree. Have a deposit thinking i would replace manual Cayman GTS 4.0 (paint to sample) with an auto as my knee is injured but based on reviews-which is all we have- I doubt I would switch.

 

[freefall_junkie]

Did you choose Goodyear or Cup2? My understanding is that there is a geometry change for the road tyres so it may not be so harsh as the pure sport setup.

So the Sport geometry is different depending on whether you spec Cup2s or Goodyears? Very interesting, I wasn't aware of that. Do you know what the differences are?

I would expect Sport + Goodyears to be less harsh and certainly less noisy than Sport + Cup2s which is why I made that switch. Cup2s have very stiff sidewalls

 

[LotusB]

Who said that it's a worse drivers car than a GTS 4.0? As you said, many reviewers liked the driving experience in the Evora more than in the Cayman, now they are criticizing Engine and Gearbox while also saying it is better than in the Evora (gearbox at least). In my head, if the Emira is better than the Evora and the Evora better than the Cayman, how did they manage it to make the Emira look worse than the Cayman now? Every time the Evora was mentioned, they stated that the Emira is doing a better job, no matter what category they were talking about.
I really don't think that the engine got worse than in the Evora, nor did the gearbox. Handling wise the car got a bit heavier and isn't as serious of a track car as the GT430 and GT410 Sport were, but a better road car. And I think in that verdict lies the truth. Maybe that one year of waiting and hoping just raised all your expectations a bit too much.

You may be referring to old comparisons, expectations have changed. This isn't a comparison to a 10-year old Porsche. The Cayman GTS 4.0 wasn't even available until 2-years ago.

 

[GetawayDriving]

So the Sport geometry is different depending on whether you spec Cup2s or Goodyears? Very interesting, I wasn't aware of that. Do you know what the differences are?

I would expect Sport + Goodyears to be less harsh and certainly less noisy than Sport + Cup2s which is why I made that switch. Cup2s have very stiff sidewalls

This is the first I’m hearing of this as well. I only chose Goodyear because I was taking delivery in winter, now my geometry will be different?

 

[kitkat]

This is the first I’m hearing of this as well. I only chose Goodyear because I was taking delivery in winter, now my geometry will be different?

I've got a feeling they maybe meant alignment?

 

[NickR]

I've got a feeling they maybe meant alignment?

Possibly. These chaps have the sports setup as it's the blue car, magma and black wheels = touring. They seem OK about the setup for road