So I got to take a test drive.... :)

[Leonard]

In fairness, I didn't play with the KEF system at all... it could have been turned down all the way, who knows? Plus this was a car that was a demo in Europe, not a fully built production model. My presumption is that the driving dynamics and power are probably well set in, the things like the speakers/stereo are probably later on the list. In either case, it's not like other cars similar to this have amazing sound systems and quiet cabins either.

From the power perspective -- I wasn't dropping the hammer from a standstill either, or revving out to get a launch. I was noticing that throughout the band, I had available power when I wanted it on a downshift. Power was plenty for my expectations. Ultimately, I am happy and not dissuaded by my choice, though other folks mileage may vary.

I doubt very much the grey demo you drove had the uprated KEF amplifier that has been spoken about recently.
You are right about it not really mattering in a car like this. From my perspective its a nice to have and as FE owners are 'forced' into having it at at whatever the price it may cost... I'd like it to actually be good. Otherwise there is an argument to wait for the Base car and not spec it.

 

[Leonard]

I remember watching the Emira vs Cayman video where the Cayman came out on top -- and it's a great car. But while on paper it does a lot of things better -- I'd never really get out of 2nd or 3rd gear based on the ratios they set.

I wanted an engaging car, the Emira is geared tighter and lets me row the gears. Can I give up some things to have some exclusivity, better steering feedback, stunning looks and a more engaging car? Sure I can. That's what my test drive told me.

Exactly. It really will come down to individual needs.
The gear ratios on the Porsche don't bother me as I would probably get the gearbox/final drive modified if I chose to get something like the 981 Spyder. Like the Emira it would also be a keeper. I can understand why an expensive modification like that wouldn't be an option for someone just looking at running a 718 4.0 GTS for a couple of years however.

 

[Eagle7]

Honestly I don’t really agree. The reviews are usually spot on, their job is to write relatable reviews. Also, they were all spot on. We’ve also had a number of reviews from driving event participants which all stated the same things.

It feels like everyone is still in denial and hoping that these things will all change last second for production cars.

Well we have quite a contrast in reviews, from Harry's and Chris Harris to Jethro and others. Depends on their expectations.

I'm not in denial at all. The reports coming in from non-professional reviewers show the car to be exactly what I expected it to be; a sports car. It's a Lotus, not a supercar. Just because it looks like a supercar doesn't automatically mean it has to perform like one.

People's expectations should have been properly set by the price point; nobody is going to make a supercar, with supercar performance for a base price of £59,999. Because it looks better than cars that actually are supercars, it's created a problem for that entire genre. How do you manage that? By pointing out how 'disappointing' the gorgeous Emira is because it doesn't rearrange your face when you push the gas pedal. The fact that it wasn't designed or intended to do that is conveniently overlooked.

The Emira is a true sports car that's been brought up to a standard of refinement and quality that a Lotus has never been at before. It's intended to be fun, livable, usable as a daily driver, with great handling and steering, enough power to have fun yet still be reliable. Harry and Chris both understood all that and reviewed it accordingly. The others who wanted a supercar for £59,999 that could equal or beat cars costing two to four times as much are disappointed. No real surprise there.

As is and has always been the case, there's aftermarket modding available for those who want to transform their sports car into something more powerful. Lotus has given us a terrific looking, capable, well-built starting point to begin with for those who want to go that route.

 

[Leonard]

Well we have quite a contrast in reviews, from Harry's and Chris Harris to Jethro and others. Depends on their expectations.

I'm not in denial at all. The reports coming in from non-professional reviewers show the car to be exactly what I expected it to be; a sports car. It's a Lotus, not a supercar. Just because it looks like a supercar doesn't automatically mean it has to perform like one.

People's expectations should have been properly set by the price point; nobody is going to make a supercar, with supercar performance for a base price of £59,999. Because it looks better than cars that actually are supercars, it's created a problem for that entire genre. How do you manage that? By pointing out how 'disappointing' the gorgeous Emira is because it doesn't rearrange your face when you push the gas pedal. The fact that it wasn't designed or intended to do that is conveniently overlooked.

The Emira is a true sports car that's been brought up to a standard of refinement and quality that a Lotus has never been at before. It's intended to be fun, livable, usable as a daily driver, with great handling and steering, enough power to have fun yet still be reliable. Harry and Chris both understood all that and reviewed it accordingly. The others who wanted a supercar for £59,999 that could equal or beat cars costing two to four times as much are disappointed. No real surprise there.

As is and has always been the case, there's aftermarket modding available for those who want to transform their sports car into something more powerful. Lotus has given us a terrific looking, capable, well-built starting point to begin with for those who want to go that route.

Agreed BUT without dragging up all the old ground again most customers were not only expecting modern day refinement but also modern day performance and dynamics. We don't yet have a benchmark on the latter which is why there is still some consternation from would be buyers (well from me anyway). I'm not interested in mod cons or looks, I want the car to outperform the car it replaces. If it does then the looks and interior comforts are a bonus. If not then I'd probably be happier in an Exige/Evora 410 or equivalent in another brand

 

[Shyatic]

Well we have quite a contrast in reviews, from Harry's and Chris Harris to Jethro and others. Depends on their expectations.

I'm not in denial at all. The reports coming in from non-professional reviewers show the car to be exactly what I expected it to be; a sports car. It's a Lotus, not a supercar. Just because it looks like a supercar doesn't automatically mean it has to perform like one.

People's expectations should have been properly set by the price point; nobody is going to make a supercar, with supercar performance for a base price of £59,999. Because it looks better than cars that actually are supercars, it's created a problem for that entire genre. How do you manage that? By pointing out how 'disappointing' the gorgeous Emira is because it doesn't rearrange your face when you push the gas pedal. The fact that it wasn't designed or intended to do that is conveniently overlooked.

The Emira is a true sports car that's been brought up to a standard of refinement and quality that a Lotus has never been at before. It's intended to be fun, livable, usable as a daily driver, with great handling and steering, enough power to have fun yet still be reliable. Harry and Chris both understood all that and reviewed it accordingly. The others who wanted a supercar for £59,999 that could equal or beat cars costing two to four times as much are disappointed. No real surprise there.

As is and has always been the case, there's aftermarket modding available for those who want to transform their sports car into something more powerful. Lotus has given us a terrific looking, capable, well-built starting point to begin with for those who want to go that route.

Exactly this. If I had a budget of another $100k then I'm sure a Ferrari of some type would be far more fun and more my speed. But I don't, and so I have to consider the price point (which is already high for me, perhaps not for others), what I get, and what my own expectations are.

Ultimately the test drive reinforced the things that reviewers had rightly pointed out, and to me -- weren't as much a concern. I think I acknowledged most of the points they made as negatives, for me -- and it didn't bother me. I've had more powerful cars (hell, my Tesla is), but that's not what I want in a fun car anyway. Heck, I was debating on a Miata at some point, but figured I'd just wind up waiting. Should give you some idea of where my initial thoughts were

 

[Shyatic]

Agreed BUT without dragging up all the old ground again most customers were not only expecting modern day refinement but also modern day performance and dynamics. We don't yet have a benchmark on the latter which is why there is still some consternation from would be buyers (well from me anyway). I'm not interested in mod cons or looks, I want the car to outperform the car it replaces. If it does then the looks and interior comforts are a bonus. If not then I'd probably be happier in an Exige/Evora 410 or equivalent in another brand

But the Emira is *cheaper* than those cars...

 

[Leonard]

But the Emira is *cheaper* than those cars...

Not sure on pricing in USA, but it's exactly the same price to the equivalently equipped Porche in UK.
I only mention the 981 Spyder as that is a car I personally lust after and although 5 years old is similar money to an Emira V6 FE with the gearbox mods included on the used market

 

[Shyatic]

Not sure on pricing in USA, but it's exactly the same price to the equivalently equipped Porche in UK.
I only mention the 981 Spyder as that is a car I personally lust after and although 5 years old is similar money to an Emira V6 FE with the gearbox mods included on the used market

I was talking about the Evora/Exige comparisons -- I'm far from a Porsche expert so not sure there.

 

[TomE]

Plus this was a car that was a demo in Europe, not a fully built production model.

Thanks for the informative write up and answering everyone's questions.

I thought this car (the LOG car) was a production car built to European spec? Did the Lotus folks say it was a pre-production car?

It would be helpful to know what spec it is and any known pre-prod/prod and Euro/US differences. In particular, if the seats aren't the production ones then that's important info.

 

[Leonard]

I was talking about the Evora/Exige comparisons -- I'm far from a Porsche expert so not sure there.

Ah OK understood.
I dont really see it as cheaper, I have always seen it as a direct comparison but with a better price point due to Geely involvement and mass production. Whether that is fair or not I'm unsure, but very low mileage Final Edition Exiges are £68-84k now and Evora GT410s £60-70k

 

[Shyatic]

Thanks for the informative write up and answering everyone's questions.

I thought this car (the LOG car) was a production car built to European spec? Did the Lotus folks say it was a pre-production car?

It would be helpful to know what spec it is and any known pre-prod/prod and Euro/US differences. In particular, if the seats aren't the production ones then that's important info.

From the dealer's comments, this is a demo car that's been through Europe -- though the Lotus reps will be on hand tonight so I can ask some questions around the car and that's the tentative plan... so I'll have some more details on things that folks here have asked.

 

[Shyatic]

Ah OK understood.
I dont really see it as cheaper, I have always seen it as a direct comparison but with a better price point due to Geely involvement and mass production. Whether that is fair or not I'm unsure, but very low mileage Final Edition Exiges are £68-84k now and Evora GT410s £60-70k

I don't think it's fair honestly, given that pricing for cars tends to *increase* over time

 

[TomE]

I remember watching the Emira vs Cayman video where the Cayman came out on top -- and it's a great car. But while on paper it does a lot of things better -- I'd never really get out of 2nd or 3rd gear based on the ratios they set.

I wanted an engaging car, the Emira is geared tighter and lets me row the gears. Can I give up some things to have some exclusivity, better steering feedback, stunning looks and a more engaging car? Sure I can. That's what my test drive told me.

This is exactly why a test drive is so important. No car is a 100% match to each person's requirements (or each reviewer's opinion on what a car in this segment should be), so understanding the possible "shortcomings" and whether those are OK for you and your intended usage is what is important.

If for example you want more power, then that might mean a different car or modifying this one. Depends how many other of your boxes it ticks. Horses for courses and all that.

 

[Eagle7]

Agreed BUT without dragging up all the old ground again most customers were not only expecting modern day refinement but also modern day performance and dynamics. We don't yet have a benchmark on the latter which is why there is still some consternation from would be buyers (well from me anyway). I'm not interested in mod cons or looks, I want the car to outperform the car it replaces. If it does then the looks and interior comforts are a bonus. If not then I'd probably be happier in an Exige/Evora 410 or equivalent in another brand

Again it depends on what your expectations are for "modern day performance and dynamics". I know what performance costs, and even though the FE costs about $95k (pre-inflation), it's not designed to perform at that price point. It's designed to perform at the price point of £59,999 which is what the FE is; the base car with all the options. And keep in mind that the price point of £59,999 is the MSRP, not the actual cost to Lotus to produce the car, which is less than that.

For a sports car, I think it does actually have modern day performance and dynamics. I didn't expect it to equal or out-perform cars costing $100k+ so it's no surprise that it doesn't, although for a usable daily driver (not competition), it looks like it's remarkably capable. Now if Lotus decides to create a high-performance model, that's going to be a horse of a different color altogether, and you can be sure it won't start at £59,999.

 

[Dabjbr]

Great dialogue. Appreciate the perspectives. Makes me wonder if I’m being overly critical. Perhaps.

I wasn’t expecting a rocket but I had hoped for somewhat equal performance to the Evora GT. So far, that’s not my impression.

I may, in fact, be in denial hoping critical reviews were exaggerated and improvements would come at the 11th hour. Reality check!

So here’s the deal… I’m still in. Test drive, seeing it in the flesh and all that may renew my desire but I must admit, I’m waffling.

Is it wrong to say (in a devout lotus forum) that one solution is to buy it, drive it a few months to see if there’s a connection and if not, flip it for equal or more money? Might be damned to hell

 

[Eagle7]

Great dialogue. Appreciate the perspectives. Makes me wonder if I’m being overly critical. Perhaps.

I wasn’t expecting a rocket but I had hoped for somewhat equal performance to the Evora GT. So far, that’s not my impression.

I may, in fact, be in denial hoping critical reviews were exaggerated and improvements would come at the 11th hour. Reality check!

So here’s the deal… I’m still in. Test drive, seeing it in the flesh and all that may renew my desire but I must admit, I’m waffling.

Is it wrong to say (in a devout lotus forum) that one solution is to buy it, drive it a few months to see if there’s a connection and if not, flip it for equal or more money? Might be damned to hell

No it's not wrong at all. It's a car, you're not marrying anybody. It's not a GT so it's not really fair to compare it to a GT. Based on it's popularity though, it's very likely we'll see a street Emira GT but it will be based on the i4 and won't have a manual trans. That's probably going to be the one you guys who want horsepower performance are going to want.

 

[Leonard]

Again it depends on what your expectations are for "modern day performance and dynamics". I know what performance costs, and even though the FE costs about $95k (pre-inflation), it's not designed to perform at that price point. It's designed to perform at the price point of £59,999 which is what the FE is; the base car with all the options. And keep in mind that the price point of £59,999 is the MSRP, not the actual cost to Lotus to produce the car, which is less than that.

For a sports car, I think it does actually have modern day performance and dynamics. I didn't expect it to equal or out-perform cars costing $100k+ so it's no surprise that it doesn't, although for a usable daily driver (not competition), it looks like it's remarkably capable. Now if Lotus decides to create a high-performance model, that's going to be a horse of a different color altogether, and you can be sure it won't start at £59,999.

I know you won't be swayed, but we can genuinely and rightly compare it with the 718 as Lotus has priced it to match that model to the £.
Plus I think it's also fair to compare it to the cars that it replaces from within the Lotus stable.
I find it ironic that Lotus have moved from being a small quirky boutique brand to one of global appeal and mass production and defenders of its modernity are using all of the arguments that one would use in defending a small boutique brand like Morgan etc lol. "It looks good, it's built to a price point, it utilises older technology"
Lotus have done an amazing job and yes it's just the start. BUT as we know it's also the end for an ICE car like this and that is why I personally find it a shame that it doesn't offer the full performance/dynamic package to back up the looks and everyday refinement.
I agree money/pricepoint is a consideration with this. Its almost as if they have shackled the Emira by trying to keep it dollar for dollar with the Porsche 718.
They would have sold more if it was 10% more and that little bit more rounded I'm sure. Or maybe they just couldn't make it any better in the timeframe and that is the end of it

 

[Leonard]

Great dialogue. Appreciate the perspectives. Makes me wonder if I’m being overly critical. Perhaps.

I wasn’t expecting a rocket but I had hoped for somewhat equal performance to the Evora GT. So far, that’s not my impression.

I may, in fact, be in denial hoping critical reviews were exaggerated and improvements would come at the 11th hour. Reality check!

So here’s the deal… I’m still in. Test drive, seeing it in the flesh and all that may renew my desire but I must admit, I’m waffling.

Is it wrong to say (in a devout lotus forum) that one solution is to buy it, drive it a few months to see if there’s a connection and if not, flip it for equal or more money? Might be damned to hell

I think folk thinking they are going to run an Emira for free for 6 to 12 months may be disappointed...

 

[Shyatic]

Great dialogue. Appreciate the perspectives. Makes me wonder if I’m being overly critical. Perhaps.

I wasn’t expecting a rocket but I had hoped for somewhat equal performance to the Evora GT. So far, that’s not my impression.

I may, in fact, be in denial hoping critical reviews were exaggerated and improvements would come at the 11th hour. Reality check!

So here’s the deal… I’m still in. Test drive, seeing it in the flesh and all that may renew my desire but I must admit, I’m waffling.

Is it wrong to say (in a devout lotus forum) that one solution is to buy it, drive it a few months to see if there’s a connection and if not, flip it for equal or more money? Might be damned to hell

Well in terms of power, they seem pretty much dead on (from the spec sheets, anyway). As I said, I wasn't dropping the hammer every time so your mileage may vary

 

[Leonard]

I don't think it's fair honestly, given that pricing for cars tends to *increase* over time

My argument is mass production and increased buying power and access to group parts should negate this