You noticed too? Too much jealousy and resentment over there. They're not fans of the Emira.
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Tariffs on Emira in US?
- Thread starter daSchtick
- Start date
You noticed too? Too much jealousy and resentment over there. They're not fans of the Emira.
weihnachts
Member
if the US had one of the lowest tariff rates, that would mean US citizens paid out the LEAST in tariffs, wouldn’t it?
of course, pertinent to the current conversation, now that tariffs on imports to the US are skyrocketing, US citizens will pay out a ton in tariffs, leading to a rapid decrease in the buying power of the US dollar, and decreasing our ability to get our dream cars.
Tariffs are imposed by governments or whatever passes for a government in some countries. The difference is if it's political that's the specific reason something is done, like accusing a political opponent of something so you can prevent them from either winning an election, or staying in office. What Trump's administration is doing right now is making trade balance corrections, as well as reducing the insane bloat and over-spending of our own government to reduce inflation and prevent the collapse of our currency. It's not about politics.
When you go from starting our government in 1776 and 200 years later we're 4 trillion in debt, that was bad enough; we should never be in debt like that. However when our own government (and it was both parties) proceeded to increase that debt by a factor of 9 in only 29 years, then we're on the fast track to bankruptcy and the collapse of our dollar not only internally, but on the world market.
Any individual or company that's spending 9 times more than they're bringing in is a disaster and going to fail and collapse, it's just a matter of when. Our government as-is has not been operating wisely or well. The politicians in power have been lying to us for decades that they've been "balancing the budget" when all they've been doing is printing money and borrowing more, calling it "raising the debt ceiling". That's double-talk for going deeper in debt. Our budget has NEVER been balanced that I've seen, certainly not in my lifetime. We've been especially heading for the economic cliff's edge for the last few decades, but it's gotten so serious now that the only way to stop the crash is to take emergency measures, which is exactly what's happening.
Once other countries and foreign operated businesses realize how serious this is (and that's already happening), they'll negotiate to get a deal of some kind which will enable them to keep doing business with us, and that's going to be better for us.
The effect this has on us in here is of course especially noticeable because we're Lotus customers and Lotus (mostly Hethel for this forum) is a foreign business, but in reality it's so small that I would expect exemptions will be made for small manufacturers like this. It just takes time to work through all the details and conversations that are going on right now. We're very small potatoes compared to other auto companies.
April 1st it applies to all imported cars and components.
Likely not true, since it was in my lifetime. Under Clinton we actually had a budget surplus and paid down debt. The debt didn't go away but it did get paid down.
Overall, there are just lots of different ways to look at the national debt, the reality is, it will never go to 0, mutually with our trade partners and allies it is beneficial to hold credit and debt to ensure mutual financial interests.
This is perhaps the best graph to try to compare the debt accounting for inflationary affects. Though, in large part the debt itself is a driving cause and even govt desire for inflation. As an economic engine I'll let the experts debate and validate inflation as a necessary thing, but overall I think it's been a "accepted evil" for too long.
I will agree though that with inflation in place, the U.S. will in the end pay less for loans than they would have otherwise. (Same principal as taking a loan at 2.3% when you know inflation is at 4% it's basically free money).
I think what the current administration is not saying/mentioning/being clear on. Is that it's an obvious side effect of the COVID spending/relief. So much money was spent to keep people employed, keep the govt solvent, to ensure that people who got sick were not bankrupted. Of course in the aftermath things will not look good. Whatever finding a pot of gold, striking oil, or other "windfall" metaphor COVID was the opposite of that.
Missing in context is how much better it seems the US is doing than the rest of the globe in this sort of economic recovery. Are we done? No. Are other governments and economic functions being more 'honest' about their situation? Perhaps.
But if you are to say 13 Trillion dollars was the total spend and affects of the federal govt (not gonna fight about the number but there are resources to look up if you want), which doesn't even include the loss of GDP during that period, where are you going to find that money? The loans were taken out as a bet against the future. It's unpopular to raise taxes but in the end, something has to be done and gutting the govt isn't going to solve the problem. I'll agree we of course want efficiency, but we want continuity of govt and services. People will not spend and businesses don't grow when there isnt stability and what's going on now, is not what stability looks like.
Sure, but it's about a larger cooling affect. Yes, there is likely some long due pressure needed to bolster American made products.
In Germany, a BMW M3 and a Mustang GT when launched in 2015 or what-have you, were similarly priced cars, with a SMALL favorability in price to the Ford.
In the US once you account for costs of shipping and whatever other fees for the BMW they are completely different classes of vehicle.
The net result will be, US cars will be 'cheaper' than imported alternatives but will be worse cars as the competition just won't exist that force feature and performance parity.
Since this is a car forum, my comment will be limited to cars.
Europe and Asia sell more cars in the US because Americans want them.
US does not sell a lot of cars in Europe or Asia because not a lot of people over there want a Ford or a Chevy.
Hence the trade imbalance.
I'm guilty of contributing to this problem because I ordered an Emira, instead of a Corvette, or a Mustang, or a Camaro.
If I fail to get a brand new Emira, I'll buy a used 911.
Tariff to me will lead to everyone driving a Trabant.
Europe and Asia sell more cars in the US because Americans want them.
US does not sell a lot of cars in Europe or Asia because not a lot of people over there want a Ford or a Chevy.
Hence the trade imbalance.
I'm guilty of contributing to this problem because I ordered an Emira, instead of a Corvette, or a Mustang, or a Camaro.
If I fail to get a brand new Emira, I'll buy a used 911.
Tariff to me will lead to everyone driving a Trabant.
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American made cars don't fit the roads of Europe, and because of that regardless of price they will not sell. Tariffs will not level the field, a desirable product will, that's needed. Buckle up, rough times are coming and not just in the auto world.
actually, it means our companies suffer the most which leads to less domestic product being exported. Less domestic jobs.
Can't have it both ways unless everyone has eliminated most tariffs. Then demand determines success not artificial inflated prices due to government involvement.
I do not like tariffs, but it has to apply to everyone.
Ford make cars IN Europe and sell a lot in the UK GM used to, until they sold out to Stellantis.
GM also used to own Lotus. Main reason US cars wouldn't sell in the UK is they don't cope well with UK roads which have rather a lot of bends, curiously something which Lotus have excelled at!
My sympathies are with all you guys in USA who have ordered and are sweating on the 25% tariff.
American cars in Asia are not popular because they break down, a lot.
Japanese cars are popular over there because they last a long time even in unforgiving conditions.
The better product wins. Tariff will not solve the problem of an inferior product.
Japanese cars are popular over there because they last a long time even in unforgiving conditions.
The better product wins. Tariff will not solve the problem of an inferior product.
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I work in the industry and often between the govt. and private enterprise in the energy/auto industry.
No one I’ve spoken to - from those in his administration to executives at domestic and foreign auto brands to the COO of Ford have any idea what the utility of these tariffs are.
They are not about “balancing a budget” - TCJA extends the deficit another $5.4 trillion over the next decade - tariff revenues is peanuts in comparison.
They have 0 to do with negotiating tariffs - South Korea and Japan don’t even tariff American cars in the first place.
They key part here is that this actually hurts domestic automakers who produce locally in the US (as they operate on a lower operating margin than foreign automakers) just as much as it does foreign automakers due to the tariffs being levied on every imported part that is used in domestic supply chains. What will happen long term with foreign cars tariffed at 25% and domestic cars facing massive supply chain cost inflation is consolidation from domestic OEMs into a handful of brands and models at substantially higher prices (with foreign assembled cars tariffed at 25% domestics can be the new marginal price setter which will be right under whatever a foreign assembled car is).
I’m working with some OEMs in Japan/SK to get some performative investment headlines out (like the referenced $43T which are all pre-fid investments, only a tiny sliver of this capital will be raised and secured). The biggest winner here by far is the Chinese EV industry. Domestic OEMs are already hurting before this with rapid post-COVID supply chain cost pressures, a tightened labor pool that has still not recovered and declining margins. Foreign automakers can simply not sell to the US and continue selling in RoW. Domestic automakers are going to have a hell of a time producing anything. If you thought the US consumer auto loan was a bubble pre-tariff you ain’t seen nothing yet.
No one I’ve spoken to - from those in his administration to executives at domestic and foreign auto brands to the COO of Ford have any idea what the utility of these tariffs are.
They are not about “balancing a budget” - TCJA extends the deficit another $5.4 trillion over the next decade - tariff revenues is peanuts in comparison.
They have 0 to do with negotiating tariffs - South Korea and Japan don’t even tariff American cars in the first place.
They key part here is that this actually hurts domestic automakers who produce locally in the US (as they operate on a lower operating margin than foreign automakers) just as much as it does foreign automakers due to the tariffs being levied on every imported part that is used in domestic supply chains. What will happen long term with foreign cars tariffed at 25% and domestic cars facing massive supply chain cost inflation is consolidation from domestic OEMs into a handful of brands and models at substantially higher prices (with foreign assembled cars tariffed at 25% domestics can be the new marginal price setter which will be right under whatever a foreign assembled car is).
I’m working with some OEMs in Japan/SK to get some performative investment headlines out (like the referenced $43T which are all pre-fid investments, only a tiny sliver of this capital will be raised and secured). The biggest winner here by far is the Chinese EV industry. Domestic OEMs are already hurting before this with rapid post-COVID supply chain cost pressures, a tightened labor pool that has still not recovered and declining margins. Foreign automakers can simply not sell to the US and continue selling in RoW. Domestic automakers are going to have a hell of a time producing anything. If you thought the US consumer auto loan was a bubble pre-tariff you ain’t seen nothing yet.
Thus you never see me post on Lotus Talk and rarely on FB as both of these sites moderators lean away from free speech and way to far into unwarranted censorship.We cant say the same for Lotus Talk. They shut the thread down with the quickness. Unfortunate. Free speech doesnt exist over there. Its as if they cull anything related to the Emira.
Lotus halt all delivery to the US
www.lotustalk.com
The point to this threat is that these tariffs have hurt LOTUS, they have impacted CONSUMERS, and they have certainly hurt North American DEALERS who've invested millions in dealership retail space.
Its been widely reported (although TMK not 100% confirmed) by Lotus Cars that they've suspended importing the Emira...The ONLY Lotus vehicle, Lotus dealers have to sell.
Whether or not someone supports or opposes the current administration, I think its fair to say the wrecking ball approach to address trade imbalances has been in-artfully executed to say the least.
This is why trade impediments are poor substitutes for domestic business support or revenue raising. Trump’s backward policies will see China take over as the world’s locomotive economy, and his burnt bridges with traditional partners will be hard to mend.
Yeah, I logged off there in early 2024 and never went back. Its really really bad now, which is a shame as I met some really cool people there.You noticed too? Too much jealousy and resentment over there. They're not fans of the Emira.
Car & Driver did an article on which manufacturer and which of their model will be impacted.
I hate to turn this into a political battle but for everyone that said that tariff doesn't work and hurts our own economy. Wake up and go see the world. Almost every country does it to us. Go look at how much a Vette cost in the rest of the world or for that matter how much an Emira cost compared to what we are paying. sure sometime those tariff are hidden behind a displacement tax but basically it still result in their consumer paying more. For example. Germany charges 18.6% on the V6 vs 3.1% on the i4. Even in China, the Emira cost $140K to $190K. Australia (whom you would assume have a "Special relationship" with the UK. The Emira cost $150K.
Also. Free trade is a 2 way street. I can live with a 80-90 cents return per dollar but some of this country don't even buy 50 cents of American goods for every dollar we buy from them. Realize that this is all your money going over to subsidize their economy.
Also. Free trade is a 2 way street. I can live with a 80-90 cents return per dollar but some of this country don't even buy 50 cents of American goods for every dollar we buy from them. Realize that this is all your money going over to subsidize their economy.
Certainly informative, sad to see so many 'American' car companies build cars outside the US. Japanese manufactures have already started moving down the desired policy path years ago with a good amount of cars already produced in the US.
Surprised to see Mercedes is producing there New line up in the US... smart. Several manufactures are going to be just fine..... Not Lotus, on the positive side -- all of us who already have cars, our car's resell value will go up (not selling mine)
Lotustoronto
Emira Addict
I am going to hesitantly weigh in from the Canadian perspective because It has an overwhelming affect on US Auto's that I don't think everyone fully appreciates. I have noticed that perhaps Americans don't realize the gravitas of CUSMA (old NAFTA) and the fact that the US Government ripped up a treaty that Trump himself created and signed.
1. 53% of all Aluminum used in the US is imported from Canada
2. The NHTSA which is in charge of labelling the amount of American Content in USA sold Vehicles can NOT distinguish the difference between American and Canadian. In fact it is lumped together - https://www.nhtsa.gov/part-583-american-automobile-labeling-act-reports
3. The reason for this is the a majority of the raw material used in parts (screws, pistons, truck frame etc.) is mined and refined in Canada
4. Most of these parts cross the border several times irregardless if they are assembled at a plant in America
5. The tariffs are based on cars with US content and auto parts - which the NHTSA has already said is impossible to distinguish between America and Canada made i.e. a piston that uses aluminum from Canada, machined in Detroit, put in an engine back in Windsor Canada and then sent to Michigan for Final Assembly at the truck plant. Is that a Canadian part or American? (FYI - this is a real example for the Silverado Pickup)
So the point here is - when the President ripped up a decades old agreement between the two most integrated economies on the planet the resulting problems are as follows;
1. Trust in American agreements between countries is very very low - Since apparently the President can just rip them up whenever he wants
2. American auto companies have no idea how to distinguish between a Canadian part and an American one.
3. Even if they could, there is an additional 25% steel and aluminum tariff in place - So either the US DOUBLES it's aluminum mining and refining output (not possible) or everyone's cars are about to go up. Doesn't matter if it's built in the US or not.
I'm pretty sure the Trump administration knows this. The question is why is he doing this? What is the real reason? Sure you can get some tariff money from the Germans and Brits. The Japanese and Koreans have zero tariffs on American cars already. Everyone needs to ask themselves what is the reason for using the sledgehammer and causing all the chaos. I have my reasons why I think - but none of them is about opening new auto plants in 5-10 years from now.
1. 53% of all Aluminum used in the US is imported from Canada
2. The NHTSA which is in charge of labelling the amount of American Content in USA sold Vehicles can NOT distinguish the difference between American and Canadian. In fact it is lumped together - https://www.nhtsa.gov/part-583-american-automobile-labeling-act-reports
3. The reason for this is the a majority of the raw material used in parts (screws, pistons, truck frame etc.) is mined and refined in Canada
4. Most of these parts cross the border several times irregardless if they are assembled at a plant in America
5. The tariffs are based on cars with US content and auto parts - which the NHTSA has already said is impossible to distinguish between America and Canada made i.e. a piston that uses aluminum from Canada, machined in Detroit, put in an engine back in Windsor Canada and then sent to Michigan for Final Assembly at the truck plant. Is that a Canadian part or American? (FYI - this is a real example for the Silverado Pickup)
So the point here is - when the President ripped up a decades old agreement between the two most integrated economies on the planet the resulting problems are as follows;
1. Trust in American agreements between countries is very very low - Since apparently the President can just rip them up whenever he wants
2. American auto companies have no idea how to distinguish between a Canadian part and an American one.
3. Even if they could, there is an additional 25% steel and aluminum tariff in place - So either the US DOUBLES it's aluminum mining and refining output (not possible) or everyone's cars are about to go up. Doesn't matter if it's built in the US or not.
I'm pretty sure the Trump administration knows this. The question is why is he doing this? What is the real reason? Sure you can get some tariff money from the Germans and Brits. The Japanese and Koreans have zero tariffs on American cars already. Everyone needs to ask themselves what is the reason for using the sledgehammer and causing all the chaos. I have my reasons why I think - but none of them is about opening new auto plants in 5-10 years from now.
Kinda smart. Except the QC out of the North American facilities has been abysmal. Basically any 3 Letter G-model that wasn't built in Germany as an AMG model is suspect to having the body harness replaced.
I personally know 3 People who had to after months of back and forth to the dealer for electrical gremlins. It kept me from buying a GLA AMG as an Mitsubishi Evo alternative.
I'll be coming back to this post in 6 months and seeing if you are correct. This is an interesting (and very risky) experiment the current administration is playing with the world economy. In my limited amount of research on the history of tariffs in the US, I've yet to see an example where they resulted in a net benefit.
Obviously both sides agree government spending is out of control, it's just the methods on fixing it that are pissing people off. Folks love to say these are "emergency measures" to bring down the national debt, but never mention the $4.5 trillion in tax cuts this administration is planning, which dwarfs any amount of reduced government spending DOGE is attempting with their slash and burn total chaos approach. The deficit will go UP under the current plan as of today, just like it did in his first term.
The current administration has added and removed enough tariffs in his first 2 months that I doubt any foreign auto manufacturer is going to be interested in investing billions into domestic factories over the next 3.5 years due to these inconsistent threats. If they don't already have a significant footprint of expandable US factories already, they will most likely do what it's rumored that Lotus is doing, which is pausing imports and waiting it out, which helps no one.
I'm very glad I got my car last year, and very frustrated for the millions who will be negatively affected by these policies.
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