Toyota 2GR-FE engine vs. BMW B58 (Supra) engine

[SlavaUkraini]

@Rasputin im guessing you havent tracked much. Just because a car does 1 halo lap at that time doesn't mean it will stay consistent. And at 4000 lbs it obviously won't. You're consumables are used at a much higher rate. No one wants to be replacing pads, tires on a pig like that. So yeah like a dyno queen it can pull some cool numbers. But in repeated use the car will be much slower than a Cayman because a cayman is 1000 lbs lighter.

So now you are moving the goal posts from “its not a good track car” to “well no one wants to replace brake pads that much”. Btw, the GTS 4.0 is about 800lbs lighter

 

[4GIV8M3]

@Rasputin If you think it's a good track car then buy one. I'm not sure what your argument is here. I am a bmw fan I have owned multiple m3s and always will. They aren't good track cars though. You can disagree with that if you'd like 

 

[4GIV8M3]

@Rasputin OK so you took it personally. Cheers mate

 

[SlavaUkraini]

@Rasputin OK so you took it personally. Cheers mate

This is childish. The numbers say you are wrong. That does not mean I took it personally. It sounds like you have, however. This is the last post I’m making about this because this is not productive.

 

[4GIV8M3]

@Rasputin Nothing personal trust me. If you're happy then that's great!! I prefer to be honest in my assessments. Enjoy the M!

 

[supersix]

It's all good to disagree, but let's keep the discussion friendly. We are all here for the same reason.. The Emira

 

[GreenDeal]

...And the best thing is, tomorrow, February 3rd, 2022, I will be able to see and touch the first Emira at a preview in Rhineland-Palatinate (Germany near Frankfurt). I can not wait...

 

[Tonyshepp]

...And the best thing is, tomorrow, February 3rd, 2022, I will be able to see and touch the first Emira at a preview in Rhineland-Palatinate (Germany near Frankfurt). I can not wait...

Enjoy the viewing … we all have

 

[InvasiveSpecies]

The 2GR may be a more long term reliable motor, but the B58 is an absolute beast. Big power but smooth, and easy to tune to big numbers. Long term reliability and maintenance costs may be at question (along with the "interesting" design choice of putting the timing chain in the back of the motor), but it is absolutely one hell of a motor and I would take it over the 2GR. To note, I nearly purchased a Supra, but stopped short because I wanted a manual transmission. I now have an order in on an Emira. But if I need to scratch the Supra itch, I'll just ride in my buddies Supra.

 

[forest]

The 2GR may be a more long term reliable motor, but the B58 is an absolute beast. Big power but smooth, and easy to tune to big numbers. Long term reliability and maintenance costs may be at question (along with the "interesting" design choice of putting the timing chain in the back of the motor), but it is absolutely one hell of a motor and I would take it over the 2GR. To note, I nearly purchased a Supra, but stopped short because I wanted a manual transmission. I now have an order in on an Emira. But if I need to scratch the Supra itch, I'll just ride in my buddies Supra.

MT model of Supra will be released soon!

 

[GreenDeal]

The B58 engine is really great! I have a Supra with 400 HP and 600 Nm. But the 2 GR is certainly not bad either and has proven itself in many cars. So I shouldn't have done anything wrong with my order for the Emira FE. Then I have both engines and can tell you... But to be honest, I don't understand the hype surrounding manual transmissions. My Supra has an 8-speed automatic that shifts fast up and down super reliably!

 

[Johnson]

The B58 engine is really great! I have a Supra with 400 HP and 600 Nm. But the 2 GR is certainly not bad either and has proven itself in many cars. So I shouldn't have done anything wrong with my order for the Emira FE. Then I have both engines and can tell you... But to be honest, I don't understand the hype surrounding manual transmissions. My Supra has an 8-speed automatic that shifts fast up and down super reliably!

Manual is largely us old guys enjoying the traditional feel of left handed throws. I learnt in a manual and have always owned manuals… in automatics I just don’t feel as “in touch” with the vehicle. I feel like a passenger who’s steering, rather than an active participant.

 

[VL3X]

left handed throws.

right handed throws.*

I have a dual clutch auto in my daily driver and it's very quick and enjoyable to drive. I'm opting for manual for my dedicated sportscar for maximum driver engagement. I just enjoy it.

Anyway, back on topic... Does the B58 have a dry sump oil system? My friend had an issue with his M4 that he rarely drove and it eventually developed an oil leak due to the seals drying out while sitting in his garage.

 

[~el~jefe~]

right handed throws.*

I have a dual clutch auto in my daily driver and it's very quick and enjoyable to drive. I'm opting for manual for my dedicated sportscar for maximum driver engagement. I just enjoy it.

Anyway, back on topic... Does the B58 have a dry sump oil system? My friend had an issue with his M4 that he rarely drove and it eventually developed an oil leak due to the seals drying out while sitting in his garage.

no it doesnt. it should have one.

porsche 718's have them even in 4 cylinders.

 

[GreenDeal]

Sorry folks, no other gear shifts as precisely and quickly as an automatic transmission! In addition, the gearshift pedals are on the steering wheel, with which you can shift gears just like with a manual transmission. Your hands are always on the steering wheel and you can concentrate much better on the drive! By the way, the F1 racing cars don't have a shifter either - has one of the drivers ever complained that he doesn't have a shifter and isn't driving in a sporty way??

 

[Eagle7]

The enjoyment of a manual isn't about shifting speed, it's about the process of not only moving the shift lever, but coordinating that with your left leg as you work the clutch. It's simply more engaging than twitching your fingers against a steering wheel paddle.

There's a difference between enjoyment driving on the street, and the business of competition driving in professional or even semi-professional racing. Racing is about winning, period, and that's why you see automatic transmissions in F1, because speed and quickness of transitions and changes are everything. When winning can come down to hundredths of a second, shifting speed matters. On the street? It's about the process, the sound, and the engagement with the machine. I don't care about hundredths of a second. Unless you've done it, when you get in the rhythm of it all, it's a lot of fun, and you have no problem concentrating on the drive, because all of it together IS the drive.

 

[roundincircles]

The enjoyment of a manual isn't about shifting speed, it's about the process of not only moving the shift lever, but coordinating that with your left leg as you work the clutch. It's simply more engaging than twitching your fingers against a steering wheel paddle.

There's a difference between enjoyment driving on the street, and the business of competition driving in professional or even semi-professional racing. Racing is about winning, period, and that's why you see automatic transmissions in F1, because speed and quickness of transitions and changes are everything. When winning can come down to hundredths of a second, shifting speed matters. On the street? It's about the process, the sound, and the engagement with the machine. I don't care about hundredths of a second. Unless you've done it, when you get in the rhythm of it all, it's a lot of fun, and you have no problem concentrating on the drive, because all of it together IS the drive.

I currently drive a manual 718 GT4. Engaging is the word I use when I'm asked 'wot's it like". Add the naturally aspirated flat 6, torque laden flux capacitor, that has to be managed within the rev range with direct steering and it's a recipe for fun.......the PDK box is a faster car, zzzzzzzzzzz

 

[switchlanez]

I drove the GR Supra and it felt a bit insulated, more BMW comfort than communicative feedback like its little sibling the 86. Maybe it was the lack of manual that made it less exciting coupled with slight but noticeable turbo lag vs NA or supercharged.

But the new Supra will officially be getting a manual.

 

[switchlanez]

I have no qualms about the 2GR-FE. Reliably Toyota engineered with lightweight slipper pistons and forged connecting rods and crankshaft. A workhorse of an engine with 2GR-Fxx variants still used in current Toyota/Lexus models. Lotus further enhanced it with higher flow fuel injectors, uprated fuel pump, revised spark plugs, recalibrated tuning map, revised airbox, larger throttle body, and larger diameter exhaust. Topped off by its crown jewel positive displacement Edelbrock supercharger running Eaton's current TVS R1740 technology optimized for 3.5L applications.

 

[EM33RA]

I have no qualms about the 2GR-FE. Reliably Toyota engineered with lightweight slipper pistons and forged connecting rods and crankshaft. A workhorse of an engine with 2GR-Fxx variants still used in current Toyota/Lexus models. Lotus further enhanced it with higher flow fuel injectors, uprated fuel pump, revised spark plugs, recalibrated tuning map, revised airbox, larger throttle body, and larger diameter exhaust. Topped off by its crown jewel positive displacement Edelbrock supercharger running Eaton's current TVS R1740 technology optimized for 3.5L applications.

View attachment 4588

How do we know it’s the latest engine in the Lotus vs the old one not updated with all the above.