What's the appeal? (Emira and Porsche)

[Lolub]

I'd like to share a quick thought. And reading multiple posts, I feel Like I'm at a Marvel convention with DC fans stopping in. Clearly, there are Porsche lovers here, comparing the Emira sometimes negatively in many aspects.

What's the appeal in considering a niche vehicle like the Emira when your heart belongs with Porsche? Clearly, we are fans on both sides, but not sure why make the crossover if you find the new Emira disappointing?

 

[LotusFan]

I saw some videos comparing the Cayman 718 to the Emira, and people deciding that the 718 was the better car, just every so slightly.

Personally, a sports car needs to be beautiful first (emotional appeal), fun to drive 2nd. The Emira seems to fill both requirements nicely (beautiful, fun to drive w/ manual & supercharged v6).

I've never been into Porsches even though I am sure they are amazing cars. They physically just didn't look as beautiful to me, and thus the desire to own one has never been strong. I would say the same about the c8, even the Z06 c8. Probably some of the best performing vehicles for the money, but aesthetically they just don't appeal to me as much as the Emira or other cars.

Every time I step into my garage, my eyes have to be fixated on the beautiful work of art that sits there. If it doesn't capture my eyes then I find it difficult to enjoy the rest of the car, as a fun sports car.

 

[Mctaff]

surely no one will crossover if they find it disappointing!?

 

[Leonard]

I'd like to share a quick thought. And reading multiple posts, I feel Like I'm at a Marvel convention with DC fans stopping in. Clearly, there are Porsche lovers here, comparing the Emira sometimes negatively in many aspects.

What's the appeal in considering a niche vehicle like the Emira when your heart belongs with Porsche? Clearly, we are fans on both sides, but not sure why make the crossover if you find the new Emira disappointing?

I was here because I thought I'd be treated better as a 'New Lotus' customer than as a Porsche one.

I was also hoping to experience a true last hoorah ICE Lotus. Finally getting to experience all of that Lotus magic, with none of the old school Lotus drama

I was also hoping that the ownership experience would be more rewarding and I could get involved in being part of a more driver focussed enthusiast owners club.

Still feeling the latter and hence why now looking at older models

You???

 

[fatjase]

For me it is all about how the car makes you feel during the various elements of the ownership experience and that can be effected by lots of things and in no particular order;
Noise (engine / exhaust)
Acceleration
Dynamics
Looks
Comfort
Badge kudos (as a family of James Bond fans Lotus and Aston score highly here).

Then it boils down to what you can afford that gives you the greatest collection of all those elements (considering some will be more important than others).

Noise for me is quite high on my list of priorities so I could never truly live with a 4 cylinder Cayman or Boxster and I also couldn't get on with the 718 GT4 for that same reason as the noise for me isn't good enough for large portions of what would be my ownership experience. That said the 4 litre GTS and GT4 do a lot of those other jobs on my list very well but overall I think the Emira will do the ones that matter to me most better.

Plus my friend has a 991.1 GT3 and as we car share I can enjoy that for now too.

 

[Lolub]

Thanks to you all for replying so quickly! I found your perspectives very insightful And I actually agree very strongly with @LotusFan about emotion and art, took all the words right out of my mouth!

Personally, I've never been a Porsche fan at all, only a JDM fan. Not into their design. Anecdotally, I think of Porsche as a 9 or 10 engineering benchmark, whereas Lotus a solid 10 on excitement and passion for design and driving. It's an experience, not a trip! And that's just from my Emira test drive!

 

[Lotustoronto]

Well, I am a Porsche owner and fan of the brand. Let's be honest they are making (and usually do) some of the best attainable sports cars money can buy. Iconic and take heritage very seriously. They proudly display vintage 911's in their new car showroom's. Lotus has many traits that would draw in a P-Car or F-Car owner. F1 heritage, amazing sports cars with iconic status. These are things that will pull in buyers of other brands. I am sure Geely realized this and hence why they made investment.

So they made this beauty sports car called the Emira and attracted those exact buyers for the exact reasons why we were at Porsche etc. Now we are here, deposits placed eagerly awaiting our cars. However the wait has allowed some to over think why they are here. The excitement begins to wane. Disappointment after disappointment occurs. First it's a couple delays'. Ok we will wait. Then the reviews come out on pre-prod cars over a 6 month period. Most say it's good, but not as good as the GTS 4.0. OK. We wait some more. More disappointing delays. "Legacy" customers and early depositors are not even given access to test drives before other. I personally test drove an Emira before anyone in the UK. OK, we keep waiting... No reviews for completely finished cars (except from Harry, but again it's his own personal car.... so perhaps a bit biased?). The delays have caused us to pay double in the amount of interest if financing. OK. We wait some more.... Some customer cars are showing up in the wrong spec. OK. Flippers have shown that the demand in the pre-owned market at the moment isn't exactly very high. OK. Early builds are showing signs of a few niggles. (nothing catastrophic mind you, but when your dealer network is tiny, it matters)

The most frustrating part of the journey has been the disappointments along the way. Some are a big deal, others not that meaningful. Added together and you have 2 years of speculation, eagerness, excitement and the constant comparing to it's competition.

Now that deliveries have begun, and the signs of happy owners (for the most part) are here, we can get some renewed joy. Emira is a great car and I can't wait for mine.

 

[Cachaco131]

I'd say 80pct of Porsche owners are looking for recognition / image (ie., I made it!). The remaining 20pct are probably enthusiasts and I'd assume they are somewhat represented by the ones this forum. But of the 20pct, I think a very small number would be open to buying into a brand with quirks such as Lotus. The very true enthusiasts may give it a chance, but that's a minimal number.

Personally, my struggle with buying a Porsche is that (1) I don't want to be associated with the 80pct bucket, and (2) after driving a few, I think Porsches are actually missing quirks, they are good to the point of becoming boring. I've driven a GT4 in anger in the LA Crest Highway and did not come at all positively impressed. Yes, fast and fun but nothing special, nothing that would sway me to buy one and again, become part of the incredibly annoying Rennlist crowd. A GT3...totally overkill and generally not used by owners in a track setting.

 

[Tonyshepp]

For me it is all about how the car makes you feel during the various elements of the ownership experience and that can be effected by lots of things and in no particular order;
Noise (engine / exhaust)
Acceleration
Dynamics
Looks
Comfort
Badge kudos (as a family of James Bond fans Lotus and Aston score highly here).

Then it boils down to what you can afford that gives you the greatest collection of all those elements (considering some will be more important than others).

Noise for me is quite high on my list of priorities so I could never truly live with a 4 cylinder Cayman or Boxster and I also couldn't get on with the 718 GT4 for that same reason as the noise for me isn't good enough for large portions of what would be my ownership experience. That said the 4 litre GTS and GT4 do a lot of those other jobs on my list very well but overall I think the Emira will do the ones that matter to me most better.

Plus my friend has a 991.1 GT3 and as we car share I can enjoy that for now too.

Listen to a new Vantage…. Amazing doesn’t come close.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I'd say 80pct of Porsche owners are looking for recognition / image (ie., I made it!). The remaining 20pct are probably enthusiasts and I'd assume they are somewhat represented by the ones this forum. But of the 20pct, I think a very small number would be open to buying into a brand with quirks such as Lotus. The very true enthusiasts may give it a chance, but that's a minimal number.

Personally, my struggle with buying a Porsche is that (1) I don't want to be associated with the 80pct bucket, and (2) after driving a few, I think Porsches are actually missing quirks, they are good to the point of becoming boring. I've driven a GT4 in anger in the LA Crest Highway and did not come at all positively impressed. Yes, fast and fun but nothing special, nothing that would sway me to buy one and again, become part of the incredibly annoying Rennlist crowd. A GT3...totally overkill and generally not used by owners in a track setting.

I agree, the new Porsche products are almost too good. Clinical to the point it looses the plot a little. The older stuff was just great (997.2 4S manual?), but the 718 Spyder has been a personal favourite car for me and I have driven many different cars, maybe it's the open top experience of a GT4. ( I agree I would not buy a GT4 tho...) The Lotus was an amazing drive IMO and in it's price range a worthy competitor and superior IMO to the GTS 4.0.

My only issue is if someone asked you " only car in the garage as a daily driver Porsche 718 GTS 4.0 or the Lotus Emira, and my Lotus dealer is 2-3 hours away, Porsche is local." I would have a hard time telling him go for the Lotus, even if it's the more exciting car.

 

[Nova]

For me, I never considered owning a Porsche aside from a Macan for my wife. I like the Emira for the way it looks and it's exclusivity, two things no Porsche can provide in my area of the country.

 

[Pops68]

I'd say 80pct of Porsche owners are looking for recognition / image (ie., I made it!). The remaining 20pct are probably enthusiasts and I'd assume they are somewhat represented by the ones this forum. But of the 20pct, I think a very small number would be open to buying into a brand with quirks such as Lotus. The very true enthusiasts may give it a chance, but that's a minimal number.

Personally, my struggle with buying a Porsche is that (1) I don't want to be associated with the 80pct bucket, and (2) after driving a few, I think Porsches are actually missing quirks, they are good to the point of becoming boring. I've driven a GT4 in anger in the LA Crest Highway and did not come at all positively impressed. Yes, fast and fun but nothing special, nothing that would sway me to buy one and again, become part of the incredibly annoying Rennlist crowd. A GT3...totally overkill and generally not used by owners in a track setting.

Yep Porsches are a dime a dozen here in so Calif. Same with Tesla. I wanted something that stands out from the crowd and the Emira fit that bill perfectly. Too bad the wait was so long.

 

[Pegasi]

Great thread and something I have wondered about in a different way. A lot of times people comment on not wanting a car that everyone else has. Then someone says, "why do you care what other people think about what you are driving?" and the debate begins.

I think it's just something about the human brain that seeks out the new and unique. Even as kids when we all brought our toy cars together you were always excited to show a new car, especially if no one else has it.

I am not entirely sure why but I love the fact the Emira will be a rare car. If a GT4 was the same price as the Emira I would still get the Emira. Porsche suffers the same fate as Vette's did before the C8. They evolve but the look is consistent. So even though the Emira performance may be "disappointing" or not the best you can get, the allure of a Lotus checks other boxes for the innovative beings that we are. Regardless of what you think about the Emira, it is unique.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Great thread and something I have wondered about in a different way. A lot of times people comment on not wanting a car that everyone else has. Then someone says, "why do you care what other people think about what you are driving?" and the debate begins.

I think it's just something about the human brain that seeks out the new and unique. Even as kids when we all brought our toy cars together you were always excited to show a new car, especially if no one else has it.

I am not entirely sure why but I love the fact the Emira will be a rare car. If a GT4 was the same price as the Emira I would still get the Emira. Porsche suffers the same fate as Vette's did before the C8. They evolve but the look is consistent. So even though the Emira performance may be "disappointing" or not the best you can get, the allure of a Lotus checks other boxes for the innovative beings that we are. Regardless of what you think about the Emira, it is unique.

Unique, rare, heritage, soul are all words that describe an Emira - That's why I am still here... Well said @Pegasi

Oh and did I mention extremely good looking

 

[lion shf]

I never understood buying a car cause where it positions me socially. I only buy a car based on cost and driving dynamics. Whats wrong with you people?

 

[Eagle7]

For me it's a long story, but then most things are when you're 71 lol. "Back in the day" when America was very much into its love affair with cars, the American cars were loud, brash, tended to be over-styled, but they had lots of horsepower and were cheap. Foreign cars were either exotic and expensive, or small and economy which didn't have that much appeal when gas was 18 cents a gallon. The classy/elegant exotic cars were British; Jaguar, Aston Martin, Austin Healey, Bentley, and of course Rolls Royce. The passionate exotic cars were Italian; Ferrari, Maserati and Alfa Romeo. The well-oiled machines were German; Porsche and Mercedes.

I was never drawn to any German car; they just never punched my button. They always looked and felt like a machine to me, very clinical. The common view was 'precision' more than anything else. As far as passion, I loved the Italian cars, but they were simply out of range price-wise. My first car was British, and I've had a soft spot for British cars ever since. My best friend in high school had an Austin Healey 3000. I was big into following Formula 1 racing, and Lotus was my favorite F1 team.

So for me, after a lifetime of growing up in and through the ICE era, the Emira represents the best of that history. It looks as good as any car designed by anybody anywhere. It's as exotic looking as any Italian car. Lotus was always known for its legendary handling and chassis performance, and the Emira has it in spades. It has a lovely sounding V6 and a manual transmission which is very reminiscent of the sound and driving experience I learned how to drive in, and grew up with. It's uncommon; something that's always appealed to me, which is partially why my daily is an Alfa Romeo.

The upgrades in fit, finish, quality and interior have brought it up to the level where it's pretty much perfect for where I'm at in age and at this stage of my life.

It's beautiful, it's exotic, and it's a Lotus. I can't wait to have it in my garage.

 

[Magma]

I think you can love Porsche's AND Lotus. Why not? Porsche embodies so many things. Heritage, engineering, handling, beauty, solidly built, reliability. As does Lotus (maybe minus some reliability and build quality). It doesn't have to be an either/or.
I have no experience with Lotus. It was an Elise I saw on the highway several years ago that piqued my interest. But I always considered them more of a "kit car." Almost a toy. Not until the Emira did I even imagine owning one!
Porsche, on the other hand, is well....Porsche. And I was lucky enough to buy my first one back in 2018. After that one test drive in a Carrera I didn't buy, I was hooked and totally understood what the big deal was. Even just the smell is special to me. They are not a dime a dozen where I live. There is not a dealer for a couple hundred miles. My TTS is one of just a handful in my town.
But the Emira is just as special, in its' own way. Oh heck! I just love cars and want to experience as many as I can, while I can! I'm excited for my first test drive in an Emira this spring. It will be interesting to see how it compares to what I imagine in my mind based on other's experiences and to see if I want to continue this journey I've been on for the last year and a half.

 

[EspritGuy]

I never understood buying a car cause where it positions me socially. I only buy a car based on cost and driving dynamics. Whats wrong with you people?

The answer to your question would lie in yet another Forum poll
(as entertaining as that would be).

 

[First Lotus]

I'd say 80pct of Porsche owners are looking for recognition / image (ie., I made it!). The remaining 20pct are probably enthusiasts and I'd assume they are somewhat represented by the ones this forum. But of the 20pct, I think a very small number would be open to buying into a brand with quirks such as Lotus. The very true enthusiasts may give it a chance, but that's a minimal number.

Personally, my struggle with buying a Porsche is that (1) I don't want to be associated with the 80pct bucket, and (2) after driving a few, I think Porsches are actually missing quirks, they are good to the point of becoming boring. I've driven a GT4 in anger in the LA Crest Highway and did not come at all positively impressed. Yes, fast and fun but nothing special, nothing that would sway me to buy one and again, become part of the incredibly annoying Rennlist crowd. A GT3...totally overkill and generally not used by owners in a track setting.

I agree on the P car character.
About 18 months ago, a friend took me for a porsche experience for my birthday. Great day (lovely lunch... Wayyyy better than what Lotus consider acceptable when you spend £1k on their LDA).
We thrashed the latest 911's around a track for quite a while. Abused Launch control without worry. Stamped on the brakes like crushing grapes. None of them missed a beat. Absolutely fantastic cars. And the seats, oh the seats... Lovely.
Ibreally worried that I would have to go and buy one!
And then I got back into my 2006 f430 and had fallen in love with it all over again before we'd even left the Silverstone compound!
There's something about a car that fits you that you can't count/quantify/explain.
We're all different and (@fatjase put it well above) different things are important in different amounts to different people.

I enjoyed my test drive in the emira. It wasn't enough to spend £80k yet. I need a bit more time in it first. When I bought the f430 I was wet behind the ears and I was in a ferrari. If it didn't burst in to flames I was going to buy it regardless of rattles, sticky buttons, connectivity (none), the leather stitching, the panel/wheel gaps and any other detail we have all picked apart on the emira.

 

[Mctaff]

I'd say 80pct of Porsche owners are looking for recognition / image (ie., I made it!). The remaining 20pct are probably enthusiasts and I'd assume they are somewhat represented by the ones this forum. But of the 20pct, I think a very small number would be open to buying into a brand with quirks such as Lotus. The very true enthusiasts may give it a chance, but that's a minimal number.

Personally, my struggle with buying a Porsche is that (1) I don't want to be associated with the 80pct bucket, and (2) after driving a few, I think Porsches are actually missing quirks, they are good to the point of becoming boring. I've driven a GT4 in anger in the LA Crest Highway and did not come at all positively impressed. Yes, fast and fun but nothing special, nothing that would sway me to buy one and again, become part of the incredibly annoying Rennlist crowd. A GT3...totally overkill and generally not used by owners in a track setting.

For someone who I think manages investments your random use of statistics plucked out of the air really worries me

But… agree with your points though… I’ve got a Macan gts, it’s solid and has convincing performance for a tank, but it’s a bit dull

I drove a 911 gts and found it too polished and anodyne… no way it was getting me out of my vantage

Crazy on a track but too tame most of the time for me.

That said I’m considering a 991 again, cause I’m fickle