Canadian Allocations

[Emira2222]

Duped is one way of looking at it but that word to me implies they deliberately set out to mislead me/customers (it wasn't just me that was told about March). I lean towards cock up rather than conspiracy on these things.

Something has happened to prompt this major change of approach. We don't know what that is and given the impact Lotus should really explain themselves. It could be supply factors, production sequencing between V6 FE and i4, decisions by Geely etc - we don't know.

I want to start off by praising @TomE for your infinite wisdom and input on these forums. The information you share is always well thought out, positive, courteous, and factual! (I swear he's part Canadian!! )

To me, it is clear that Lotus have decided to divide their strategy between the UK and North America (maybe Global?) markets. I have no problem with that! Considering they are a UK company and the global issues (pandemic, supply chain, etc.), they likely have decided to roll out early editions to their native customers. It looks like they may be approaching the two markets differently. It would not be the first time a company has done that.

One of the issues I see in this forum is that I feel that many believe that what is said to the UK customers automatically applies to the North America costumers. I don't believe that should be assumed. They clearly have a different strategy for both markets.

In reading all of the posts on communications (and reading between the lines), I do not believe that Lotus has done anything to deceive or ignore us. My annoyance falls on the lack of consistency between North American dealers. Many dealers have different strategies... I can appreciate that. I wish I was a Gator (Indiana?) customer!! Completely transparent, care about their customers, and appreciate the brand they sell. On the flip side, there are far too many that choose to lie and cheat and looking to make an easy buck. Those are the ones I would prefer to avoid. Unfortunately, in North America, we are limited to the number of dealerships within a small market (if you want a Lotus).

So, long story short, I do not have any qualms with how Lotus has conducted themselves. However, I have a growing frustration with how the Dealers conduct their business. If I had a choice, I'd look for a dealer that has a customer first mentality.

 

[TomE]

I want to start off by praising @TomE for your infinite wisdom and input on these forums. The information you share is always well thought out, positive, courteous, and factual! (I swear he's part Canadian!! )

Thanks for the feedback. I try to provide some insight to the Lotus culture, mindset and ways of working as well as info on processes and the cars themselves. I don't have all the answers and sometimes pick up wrong info, although I do try to cross-reference. I have less ongoing access to info about North America and more about UK, but did have a decent discussion about the overall NA situation at Hethel last month.

My great grandmother was a direct descendant of General James Wolfe so I can claim some Canadian connection - although possibly not viewed favourably by many.

 

[Emira2222]

Thanks for the feedback. I try to provide some insight to the Lotus culture, mindset and ways of working as well as info on processes and the cars themselves. I don't have all the answers and sometimes pick up wrong info, although I do try to cross-reference. I have less ongoing access to info about North America and more about UK, but did have a decent discussion about the overall NA situation at Hethel last month.

My great grandmother was a direct descendant of General James Wolfe so I can claim some Canadian connection - although possibly not viewed favourably by many.

With all of the various sources share in these forums, it is very difficult to track facts versus interpreted information.

Kudos to you for your infinite wisdom and dedication to this forum. (I knew he had some Canadian in him! lol)

 

[DPB]

A wise person once said "don't ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence". What we have is a new car model from a small company that has created an absolute sensation and a stunning demand. We're all here because we frankly can't get our hands on this car soon enough. While "incompetence" is a strong word, it's clear there are some growing pains and we should cut Lotus a bit of slack. I do also think there is some merit to @LotusB's point about people being litigious and Lotus may be calculating that in the absence of certainty it's better to say nothing than to make inaccurate statements.

I also agree that most global companies apply different strategies in different markets, due to varying regulations and market conditions, so its no surprise there is variability between UK, US, Canada and other countries. The US car dealer situation is nothing new. Most people when asked do not put auto dealerships at the pinnacle of ethical conduct. "Used car dealer" is a stereotype for a reason. That said, we're dealing with a niche brand focused on enthusiasts and many of the dealerships are staffed by enthusiasts too, so hopefully the majority will treat their customers properly and fairly. In the end, it is a business though - both manufacturing and retailing. It's capitalism not altruism.

I hope @TomE is correct that we're going to see much more open flow of information once press reviews, Base pricing, etc. start appearing in the coming few months. That is consistent with what I hear from my dealer. Hopefully this will thaw the metaphorical information freeze and bring us into a Spring of excitement, seeing real cars, real colors, real evaluations and more. I can't wait to see our UK friends start taking delivery this summer. That's when this forum is going to explode in a frenzy of posts and photos and we'll all be celebrating the arrival of the last great ICE sports car and counting the days until our own Emira sits in our garage or driveway. Patience grasshopper.

 

[p.rob]

I want to start off by praising @TomE for your infinite wisdom and input on these forums. The information you share is always well thought out, positive, courteous, and factual! (I swear he's part Canadian!! )

To me, it is clear that Lotus have decided to divide their strategy between the UK and North America (maybe Global?) markets. I have no problem with that! Considering they are a UK company and the global issues (pandemic, supply chain, etc.), they likely have decided to roll out early editions to their native customers. It looks like they may be approaching the two markets differently. It would not be the first time a company has done that.

One of the issues I see in this forum is that I feel that many believe that what is said to the UK customers automatically applies to the North America costumers. I don't believe that should be assumed. They clearly have a different strategy for both markets.

In reading all of the posts on communications (and reading between the lines), I do not believe that Lotus has done anything to deceive or ignore us. My annoyance falls on the lack of consistency between North American dealers. Many dealers have different strategies... I can appreciate that. I wish I was a Gator (Indiana?) customer!! Completely transparent, care about their customers, and appreciate the brand they sell. On the flip side, there are far too many that choose to lie and cheat and looking to make an easy buck. Those are the ones I would prefer to avoid. Unfortunately, in North America, we are limited to the number of dealerships within a small market (if you want a Lotus).

So, long story short, I do not have any qualms with how Lotus has conducted themselves. However, I have a growing frustration with how the Dealers conduct their business. If I had a choice, I'd look for a dealer that has a customer first mentality.

I mostly don't agree with all the frustration that is being thrown on this forum since allocations were announced. but I 100% agree with that post. Some dealers had a questionable approach in the past few months and that I consider deplorable. Lotus has not been 100% perfect, but I can appreciate that they don't make official statements intill they are 100% sure of the information they will distribute.

 

[Mike-engel]

Duped is one way of looking at it but that word to me implies they deliberately set out to mislead me/customers (it wasn't just me that was told about March). I lean towards cock up rather than conspiracy on these things.

Something has happened to prompt this major change of approach. We don't know what that is and given the impact Lotus should really explain themselves. It could be supply factors, production sequencing between V6 FE and i4, decisions by Geely etc - we don't know.

You’re right. It was a poor choice of words. Sorry. It was late at night and the best I could come up with. I don’t think it was intentional to mislead but the result was the same and it feels like a self inflicted wound. If they didn’t want to reveal information, yet avoid the downstream perception of the lie of omission, then why not communicate deliberately to all deposit holders that things are in flux and they don’t want to say things they will have to take back. When I see posts where those in the know are being given information I wonder why we can’t all know…or not. In any event, I hope all end up happy.

 

[TomE]

You’re right. It was a poor choice of words. Sorry. It was late at night and the best I could come up with. I don’t think it was intentional to mislead but the result was the same and it feels like a self inflicted wound. If they didn’t want to reveal information, yet avoid the downstream perception of the lie of omission, then why not communicate deliberately to all deposit holders that things are in flux and they don’t want to say things they will have to take back. When I see posts where those in the know are being given information I wonder why we can’t all know…or not. In any event, I hope all end up happy.

This is exactly what I said to them late last year and in my meetings at Hethel: people will be much happier if you tell them some piece of info isn't available yet but will be published on X date. And if X date looks like it's going to slip then come back and update people to say it's Y date rather than let X date pass with radio silence.

The specific examples I gave were UK depositors being told during Oct/Nov decisions that (a) V6 FE people would be able to change config up until 3rd deposit in Jan, and (b) i4 FE and Base people would be re-contacted in Jan about next step of the process. On (a) they changed the approach and didn't tell people until it was too late for some people to make changes without incurring a delay and on (b) Jan came and went without the i4 process starting or updates being given.

I'm waiting to see evidence that the positive Lotus acknowledgement of my feedback and their undertaking to do better is being translated into improvements. It's only been two weeks since that meeting, so I'm OK to wait a little longer. Other things have been done since then, like briefing the US and UK dealers.

 

[Carbuilder]

Nothing against TomE, he is really doing a fantastic job of communicating what he knows to try and help everyone here. A pity Lotus is not doing the same.

As for cutting Lotus some slack, I totally disagree with that. Yes, there is a lot going on with the number of orders, a new car, a new factory, global shortages, etc. But all it takes is letting the customer know what is going on to calm the situation. Having talked to my dealer this week and been told the number of cars he is getting is "approximately 10 but it is preliminary as we have not met or spoken with our reps as of yet", compared with TomE saying the dealers all know their allocations. What am I to think? It seems that no Canadian dealer (or certainly most) have contacted a customer to let them know what is going on, without the customer contacting them first. The same story from 2 dealerships I have communicated with...they don't have any info from Lotus to pass along.

Cutting Lotus some slack? No! The customers have paid money and expect at least a little respect. I tend to believe the dealers and can hear the frustration in not having anything concrete to tell their customers.

 

[EspritGuy]

Nothing against TomE, he is really doing a fantastic job of communicating what he knows to try and help everyone here. A pity Lotus is not doing the same.

As for cutting Lotus some slack, I totally disagree with that. Yes, there is a lot going on with the number of orders, a new car, a new factory, global shortages, etc. But all it takes is letting the customer know what is going on to calm the situation. Having talked to my dealer this week and been told the number of cars he is getting is "approximately 10 but it is preliminary as we have not met or spoken with our reps as of yet", compared with TomE saying the dealers all know their allocations. What am I to think? It seems that no Canadian dealer (or certainly most) have contacted a customer to let them know what is going on, without the customer contacting them first. The same story from 2 dealerships I have communicated with...they don't have any info from Lotus to pass along.

Cutting Lotus some slack? No! The customers have paid money and expect at least a little respect. I tend to believe the dealers and can hear the frustration in not having anything concrete to tell their customers.

I am sympathetic to many of the views expressed. Much of the frustration in North America comes from two things: Watching from afar progress in UK including depositors in October being assured they will get FE cars (while we are under an allocation cap), and asking Dealers for updates and being told `We've heard nothing from Lotus,"
Maybe that's a lazy response. But that has also been the reply from dealers held in the most esteem. Information voids are often filled with wild speculation. Saying " we won't communicate until we are 100 percent sure" is also a deficient stance. There's always a here's what we know for sure middle ground.
Candor is called for. Patience is granted when understanding is fostered.
The 700 NA allocation is exceptionally disappointing in view of a purported 3000 deposits, data Lotus would have had as gatekeeper for authentication. Freezing that number does connote exclusivity but saying that after the fact instills distrust.
I would be delighted to hear something will be done to soothe the disappointed.
I am and remain a Lotus enthusiast. But they surely can and must do better.

 

[TomE]

You're right, particularly as many people were asking as early as Day 1 of Goodwood "is there a quota of V6 engines to use up" and "is there a limited run of First Editions". Matt Windle himself (and other senior Lotus staff) said no to both questions to several people at Goodwood, in interviews and at UK roadshows.

I think Lotus need to take ownership of the fact they made a clear statement last July and are now back-tracking on that without an explanation. We can more easily accept something may have changed, if it is explained.

 

[Emira2222]

I reached out to Gentry today and got some useful information. So I thought I would share.

They were reluctant to tell me, but it sounds like they may get around 10-15 V6FEs. It also looks like they are going to get a sample chest in the new few months. When it comes in, they will likely notify depositors in groups to avoid everyone coming in at once. I feel much better about my choice to go with Gentry now that I actually spoke to someone that was willing to share some information.

Looking at the U.S. Update: Allocation & Order Date thread, many of the US dealers have communicated with their depositors and confirmed allocation numbers for V6FE. With only 5 dealers in Canada it is a bit easier to keep track. Here is what I gathered from the discussions of this thread:

Canada is getting approximately 10% of the 700 North American cars = 70 total
Calgary - @Haffway confirmed they are getting 10
Montreal - @p.rob and @Buzz confirmed they are getting 20
Oakville (Toronto) - @Carbuilder confirmed they are getting 10
Gentry (Toronto) - Via my phone call today, they are getting ~10-15.
Vancouver - unconfirmed. However, doing the math... 70 less the known allocation above (~55), that leaves Vancouver with ~15

 

[p.rob]

I think 70 allocations for canada is pure speculation though

 

[Type131]

I reached out to Gentry today and got some useful information. So I thought I would share.

They were reluctant to tell me, but it sounds like they may get around 10-15 V6FEs. It also looks like they are going to get a sample chest in the new few months. When it comes in, they will likely notify depositors in groups to avoid everyone coming in at once. I feel much better about my choice to go with Gentry now that I actually spoke to someone that was willing to share some information.

Looking at the U.S. Update: Allocation & Order Date thread, many of the US dealers have communicated with their depositors and confirmed allocation numbers for V6FE. With only 5 dealers in Canada it is a bit easier to keep track. Here is what I gathered from the discussions of this thread:

Canada is getting approximately 10% of the 700 North American cars = 70 total
Calgary - @Haffway confirmed they are getting 10
Montreal - @p.rob and @Buzz confirmed they are getting 20
Oakville (Toronto) - @Carbuilder confirmed they are getting 10
Gentry (Toronto) - Via my phone call today, they are getting ~10-15.
Vancouver - unconfirmed. However, doing the math... 70 less the known allocation above (~55), that leaves Vancouver with ~15

I am in the top 5 in Calgary. Spoke with Eric yesterday. He indicates that orders will be finalized by late Feb/early March, further $7500 deposit at that time, and then expected delivery of a 1st Ed in Nov/Dec, as a 2023 model year.

 

[DF_Toronto]

I am in the top 5 in Calgary. Spoke with Eric yesterday. He indicates that orders will be finalized by late Feb/early March, further $7500 deposit at that time, and then expected delivery of a 1st Ed in Nov/Dec, as a 2023 model year.

Congrats! Does anyone find it odd, nothing confirmed yet but based on the US allocations thread it sounds like most who got order in by mid August are on track for end of year FE delivery. I got my deposit in mid July and it sounds like that won’t even make the cutoff for Canadian dealerships. More demand from Canadians relative to allocations being given?

 

[LotusVancouver]

Hi! Sorry for the silence, I didn't see that we were tagged.

We have started calling deposit holders for allotments and are planning on sending an email out to all shortly.

For clarification: no Emira has been in Canada yet. We were told that a show car (hopefully a driver) would arrive in the spring to show deposit holders/prospective buyers but don't know exactly when that will happen. Other than that car will begin production in September and FE V6 cars will be delivered from November through February, with production then switching to i4 FE then normal edition V6. All dealers are getting a demo + whatever their allotments.

 

[YYCEmira]

Has anyone heard when we will be able to see the car in person? I beat around the bush on my deposit so I'm around #40 in Calgary but still hoping to take a look soon!

 

[CanadianEmira]

Hi! Sorry for the silence, I didn't see that we were tagged.

We have started calling deposit holders for allotments and are planning on sending an email out to all shortly.

For clarification: no Emira has been in Canada yet. We were told that a show car (hopefully a driver) would arrive in the spring to show deposit holders/prospective buyers but don't know exactly when that will happen. Other than that car will begin production in September and FE V6 cars will be delivered from November through February, with production then switching to i4 FE then normal edition V6. All dealers are getting a demo + whatever their allotments.

Any update as to when we can expect to be contacted?

 

[p.rob]

Still waiting as well, last time I spoke to the dealer they said somewhere in march, so I'm not too worried at this point.

 

[LotusVancouver]

Any update as to when we can expect to be contacted?

We've been starting to firm up First Edition allotments for customers! Unfortunately, since there aren't many allotments and we have a pretty big list of deposits at this stage not everyone will be contacted for the First Editions. We are also working on a newsletter/update to all clients. Please give us a ring if you'd like news on where your order stands.

As well, Lotus has let us know that they will be doubling production for 2023! Meaning that dealers will receive twice as many next cars next year as they are this year.

 

[themeatbaron]

We've been starting to firm up First Edition allotments for customers! Unfortunately, since there aren't many allotments and we have a pretty big list of deposits at this stage not everyone will be contacted for the First Editions. We are also working on a newsletter/update to all clients. Please give us a ring if you'd like news on where your order stands.

As well, Lotus has let us know that they will be doubling production for 2023! Meaning that dealers will receive twice as many next cars next year as they are this year.

So what are the odds of getting an order filled in Canada for delivery next year if you didn't make the cut and had your deposit down for an FE V6?