Canadian Allocations

[DF_Toronto]

If I only lived closer to Montreal... I've heard nothing but good things about them.

Gentry (Toronto) is not responsive to emails, but will answer phone calls. However, they are reluctant to provide any useful information. I guess I will need to sit back and be patient.

Anyone have any luck getting any information out of Oakville (Toronto)?

Curious did they invite you or inform you about a viewing event for the Emira in November?

 

[Emira2222]

Curious did they invite you or inform you about a viewing event for the Emira in November?

What?? Never mentioned it!!

 

[DF_Toronto]

What?? Never mentioned it!!

Yup, I understand if there was a limited capacity but at least be transparent and call to say sorry only ____ could be invited. I put in my interest on July 8th and my deposit immediately when they said they could take it and was told late summer “not sure when we’ll be getting the car tour but we’ll let you know”.

I hadn’t heard about any dealerships in Canada getting an event so I assumed maybe this spring/summer. Last night I spotted the Gentry Instagram account and low and behold, they had an event on November 6th. I’m not sure if this was press only or past customer event, or capacity limit. But this is a bad look if those who put actual money down for a car they haven’t seen in person weren’t invited over those who hadn’t, or are farther down the list. At least if you’re going to post it online then e-mail or call any deposit holders who you explicitly talked to about an event that this is happening but you will be invited to the next one etc.

 

[p.rob]

Yup, I understand if there was a limited capacity but at least be transparent and call to say sorry only ____ could be invited. I put in my interest on July 8th and my deposit immediately when they said they could take it and was told late summer “not sure when we’ll be getting the car tour but we’ll let you know”.

I hadn’t heard about any dealerships in Canada getting an event so I assumed maybe this spring/summer. Last night I spotted the Gentry Instagram account and low and behold, they had an event on November 6th. I’m not sure if this was press only or past customer event, or capacity limit. But this is a bad look if those who put actual money down for a car they haven’t seen in person weren’t invited over those who hadn’t, or are farther down the list. At least if you’re going to post it online then e-mail or call any deposit holders who you explicitly talked to about an event that this is happening but you will be invited to the next one etc.

I assumed we did not get a chance for a viewing in Canada.

 

[Emira2222]

Yup, I understand if there was a limited capacity but at least be transparent and call to say sorry only ____ could be invited. I put in my interest on July 8th and my deposit immediately when they said they could take it and was told late summer “not sure when we’ll be getting the car tour but we’ll let you know”.

I hadn’t heard about any dealerships in Canada getting an event so I assumed maybe this spring/summer. Last night I spotted the Gentry Instagram account and low and behold, they had an event on November 6th. I’m not sure if this was press only or past customer event, or capacity limit. But this is a bad look if those who put actual money down for a car they haven’t seen in person weren’t invited over those who hadn’t, or are farther down the list. At least if you’re going to post it online then e-mail or call any deposit holders who you explicitly talked to about an event that this is happening but you will be invited to the next one etc.

Wow... That's disappointing! You'd think with only ~90 depositors, they would give us some kind of notice? (At the time, it was likely around 60) Since I put my deposit in September... its been radio silence from them!

I've only called them a handful of times through the deposit process, but every time I call them, I get the sense that I am bothering them.

Unfortunately, anyone who lives in Ontario only had the choice of Gentry and Oakville. Based on reviews and comments within forums, Gentry appeared to be the only real choice we had.

The worst part of it all... I live within an hour of the Detroit (USA) Dealership!

 

[Emira2222]

I assumed we did not get a chance for a viewing in Canada.

Neither did I! I assumed it was only the main dealerships in the US.

 

[Carbuilder]

Anyone have any luck getting any information out of Oakville (Toronto)?

Yes. They said preliminary number is 10 cars this year, but apparently that is not confirmed from their reps (whatever that means). I've asked how many orders they have and what number I am, but they don't seem to want to tell me.

I emailed Lotus inquires to let them know how disappointed I am in their pretty much non-existent communication as far as Canada is concerned. I suppose they are proving me right by not getting back to me.

 

[TomE]

Not that it matters.... but, I'm curious to know why some Canadian dealers have received allocations and other have not??

Could it be that all dealers know, but the ones that "claim" that they have "not" received their allocations are just not telling the public? If so, not cool!

All the North American dealers have been given their allocations. Some are being speedier than others in communicating to customers.

 

[DF_Toronto]

All the North American dealers have been given their allocations. Some are being speedier than others in communicating to customers.

Hi Tom, thanks for the input and thank you for everything you’ve provided in the forum. I don’t know if my fellow Canadians are too fussed about not getting the call to configure yet. More so I would say (and this is just me personally) having placed my interest in buying an Emira on July 8 (2 days after Goodwood) and the only communication whatsoever was an e-mail from Lotus in October saying you’re in the fast lane here is the FE pricing reveal for Canada. And then you come on this forum and hear everyone else is getting calls from lotus to come to an in person event, configure their car etc…but then the kicker is what’s being said here about if you didn’t get a call by now you’re probably not getting an FE. I would be fine if there was no communication until July 2023 as long as it was universal. And I don’t even mind getting my car whenever it’s ready. What I’m worried about is that (and it legitimately seems like this is what’s happening) is that I won’t get an FE and they will charge me more just to get what’s included in the same car other folks are getting who should have been behind us. To be honest it’s not even about the money, I love Lotus and I don’t think I’ve ever wanted anything more than an Emira…but this would leave such a sour taste in my mouth that I’ll never want anything to do with the company if it plays out this way. Hope that makes sense. @TomE

 

[TXEMIRA]

Hi Tom, thanks for the input and thank you for everything you’ve provided in the forum. I don’t know if my fellow Canadians are too fussed about not getting the call to configure yet. More so I would say (and this is just me personally) having placed my interest in buying an Emira on July 8 (2 days after Goodwood) and the only communication whatsoever was an e-mail from Lotus in October saying you’re in the fast lane here is the FE pricing reveal for Canada. And then you come on this forum and hear everyone else is getting calls from lotus to come to an in person event, configure their car etc…but then the kicker is what’s being said here about if you didn’t get a call by now you’re probably not getting an FE. I would be fine if there was no communication until July 2023 as long as it was universal. And I don’t even mind getting my car whenever it’s ready. What I’m worried about is that (and it legitimately seems like this is what’s happening) is that I won’t get an FE and they will charge me more just to get what’s included in the same car other folks are getting who should have been behind us. To be honest it’s not even about the money, I love Lotus and I don’t think I’ve ever wanted anything more than an Emira…but this would leave such a sour taste in my mouth that I’ll never want anything to do with the company if it plays out this way. Hope that makes sense. @TomE

Few tricks to follow along.

1. Check where posters are from 100%. The “7 July” vs “July 7th” is a dead giveaway.

2. Always look for “FE” “V6” “i4”.

3. Most “calls” are referring to the UK and calls from Lotus directly while some are “US Dealer Calls” to deposit holders. A few from Canada too.

4. Same boat. July 7th deposit. 1 email.

5. Ask clarifying questions whenever you feel the need. Most reply fast.

 

[CanadianEmira]

4. Same boat. July 7th deposit. 1 email.

Same for me, and I'm in Canada.

 

[TomE]

Hi Tom, thanks for the input and thank you for everything you’ve provided in the forum. I don’t know if my fellow Canadians are too fussed about not getting the call to configure yet. More so I would say (and this is just me personally) having placed my interest in buying an Emira on July 8 (2 days after Goodwood) and the only communication whatsoever was an e-mail from Lotus in October saying you’re in the fast lane here is the FE pricing reveal for Canada. And then you come on this forum and hear everyone else is getting calls from lotus to come to an in person event, configure their car etc…but then the kicker is what’s being said here about if you didn’t get a call by now you’re probably not getting an FE. I would be fine if there was no communication until July 2023 as long as it was universal. And I don’t even mind getting my car whenever it’s ready. What I’m worried about is that (and it legitimately seems like this is what’s happening) is that I won’t get an FE and they will charge me more just to get what’s included in the same car other folks are getting who should have been behind us. To be honest it’s not even about the money, I love Lotus and I don’t think I’ve ever wanted anything more than an Emira…but this would leave such a sour taste in my mouth that I’ll never want anything to do with the company if it plays out this way. Hope that makes sense. @TomE

The poor comms has been one of my main recurring points of feedback to Lotus and discussed at length when I went to the factory two weeks ago. Some (but not all) of my points were acknowledged as valid and Lotus accepted they needed to do better. Action points from that discussion are starting to filter through, so there have been briefings in the last 2-3 weeks for all UK and US dealers, the new configurator and so on.

It still has a long way to go. I hope we start seeing more in the next 4-6 weeks. My expectation is it will ramp up a lot in March, as first press drive reviews start coming out and Lotus announce more info about the i4 FE and base/options.

Lotus have chosen to communicate infrequently since July reveal up to now. Most of us don't like that. There have also been careless or thoughtless actions, such as contact one sub-group of customers but not appreciating it would raise questions with everyone else. For example they started calling early UK deposit holders in mid Dec to say they were getting June delivery dates. So everyone else with an early UK deposit (and later ones!) started thinking "when's my delivery, why haven't they called me, what's wrong" .

This felling amongst many depositors of "fear of missing out" should be obvious to Lotus and could be solved with some simple, regular updates. But it's not happening.

In North America the dealers do now have information that lets them start providing updates to customers, and Lotus is letting dealers do it rather than Lotus Cars USA or HQ. From what I can tell there appears to have been a major change of approach on non-UK V6 FEs, which has at least now been explained to the dealers. Ideally there would be a clear statement from Lotus saying there are a limited number of V6 FEs and who is in or out - this seems to be being left to dealers to tell people.

I think we have to assume Lotus won't wave a magic wand and improve comms overnight. So we have to make best use of the channels we do have. For you that should be your dealer. I think it's reasonable to ask them a bunch of questions and if they can't answer some of them then ask them to find out from LCUSA or HQ.

 

[LotusB]

Lotus have chosen to communicate infrequently since July reveal up to now. Most of us don't like that.

Given some of the posts I've read here and the fact that people are so litigious, I almost wonder if Lotus is dodging bullets? It's one thing to deal with people's assumptions and wishful thinking. It's a whole lot to put something in writing and deal with legal threats.

What most people don't realize is that it takes a lot of effort and expense to bring online a communications department and deal with any number of diverse questions. You can have someone answer an email or the phone, but what if they say the wrong thing? Or what they say is misinterpreted?

Lotus is still a small company, despite the major investment from Geely, and they're still learning their way. The ironic unintended consequences of initial success are also biting them. But this shall pass once deliveries start. We're only a few months away from UK deliveries and probably much sooner for magazine reviews (given a few leaked pics). Patience, lads!

 

[DF_Toronto]

The poor comms has been one of my main recurring points of feedback to Lotus and discussed at length when I went to the factory two weeks ago. Some (but not all) of my points were acknowledged as valid and Lotus accepted they needed to do better. Action points from that discussion are starting to filter through, so there have been briefings in the last 2-3 weeks for all UK and US dealers, the new configurator and so on.

It still has a long way to go. I hope we start seeing more in the next 4-6 weeks. My expectation is it will ramp up a lot in March, as first press drive reviews start coming out and Lotus announce more info about the i4 FE and base/options.

Lotus have chosen to communicate infrequently since July reveal up to now. Most of us don't like that. There have also been careless or thoughtless actions, such as contact one sub-group of customers but not appreciating it would raise questions with everyone else. For example they started calling early UK deposit holders in mid Dec to say they were getting June delivery dates. So everyone else with an early UK deposit (and later ones!) started thinking "when's my delivery, why haven't they called me, what's wrong" .

This felling amongst many depositors of "fear of missing out" should be obvious to Lotus and could be solved with some simple, regular updates. But it's not happening.

In North America the dealers do now have information that lets them start providing updates to customers, and Lotus is letting dealers do it rather than Lotus Cars USA or HQ. From what I can tell there appears to have been a major change of approach on non-UK V6 FEs, which has at least now been explained to the dealers. Ideally there would be a clear statement from Lotus saying there are a limited number of V6 FEs and who is in or out - this seems to be being left to dealers to tell people.

I think we have to assume Lotus won't wave a magic wand and improve comms overnight. So we have to make best use of the channels we do have. For you that should be your dealer. I think it's reasonable to ask them a bunch of questions and if they can't answer some of them then ask them to find out from LCUSA or HQ.

Lack of comms isn’t the end of the world as long as you can rely on the last comm being truthful. Not sure if that makes any sense? I never had any angst about not hearing anything for months until I’ve started learning that the comms I was given and have relied on all this time were likely false. Ie. my dealer told me in the summer that they had talked to Lotus and I would 100% get an FE it’s just a question of 2022 or 2023 (and 2023 is my expectation). I called Lotus HQ USA to confirm this as well and was told absolutely based on my deposit date. If delays happened and they don’t even deliver first cars until 2023 it’s personally no biggie. But after they said my deposit date will get an FE and e-mailed me the FE spec and price and then 7-8+ months later they tell me nope, no more FEs…”HOWEVER, good news - you can config a car that won’t be an FE but you can get the same options as the FE and it’s only going to cost you 10K more and you’ll only get it a year later than another customer that placed a deposit request later yet already got their FE order in”. If the comms had ANY credibility then I would prefer that every 6-12 months vs not being able to trust a word they said. I value honesty and integrity and if I got that they could have charged 20K more for an FE and I’d gladly pay it vs. a penny more for a “bait and switch”.

I love Lotus cars, and I LOVE the Emira. But I just don’t see how you can shake hands and buy a product from someone who’s knowingly screwing you and seemingly ok with it, personally I can’t.

 

[Carbuilder]

All the North American dealers have been given their allocations. Some are being speedier than others in communicating to customers.

It is difficult/impossible to believe this includes Canada since 2 dealers this week have said they don’t officially know how many cars they are getting this year. Dealers are lying to customers?

 

[Mike-engel]

Lack of comms isn’t the end of the world as long as you can rely on the last comm being truthful. Not sure if that makes any sense? I never had any angst about not hearing anything for months until I’ve started learning that the comms I was given and have relied on all this time were likely false. Ie. my dealer told me in the summer that they had talked to Lotus and I would 100% get an FE it’s just a question of 2022 or 2023 (and 2023 is my expectation). I called Lotus HQ USA to confirm this as well and was told absolutely based on my deposit date. If delays happened and they don’t even deliver first cars until 2023 it’s personally no biggie. But after they said my deposit date will get an FE and e-mailed me the FE spec and price and then 7-8+ months later they tell me nope, no more FEs…”HOWEVER, good news - you can config a car that won’t be an FE but you can get the same options as the FE and it’s only going to cost you 10K more and you’ll only get it a year later than another customer that placed a deposit request later yet already got their FE order in”. If the comms had ANY credibility then I would prefer that every 6-12 months vs not being able to trust a word they said. I value honesty and integrity and if I got that they could have charged 20K more for an FE and I’d gladly pay it vs. a penny more for a “bait and switch”.

I love Lotus cars, and I LOVE the Emira. But I just don’t see how you can shake hands and buy a product from someone who’s knowingly screwing you and seemingly ok with it, personally I can’t.

Well said @DF_Toronto. Some buyers, those who operate from a set of consistently applied core values, may experience a genuine conflict as to whether to move forward with their purchase despite having the means to do so. Even @TomE, whose information on this forum has been our lifeline, was duped to believe that your car, when you eventually receive it, will be a first edition if you wish, as long as you place a deposit by March (see his statement in post #21 in the thread “Dealer asked for ADM to move up the list”. No matter who’s at fault for communicating this expectation, it ultimately affects lotus negatively, not just because of a lost sale, but also because of a mark against their credibility. Wanting them to be successful, it’s this effect about which I worry. Sure, are there others to step into the abandoned slot? Of course. But on the back end there will be one less buyer, or maybe more. I truly believe lotus may need to have a remedy for this situation. Either honor a first edition price for a car configured as a first edition, even if it’s not badged that way, and with the flexibility of choosing non FE colors. Or extend the FE builds to enable delivery of FE cars to those who put in a timely deposit (date TBD). It’s great they increased their FE allotment from 500 to 700 for North America, but they never told people that the limit would be 500 yet continued to take deposits under that apparent misperception. Once again, almost all problems are communication problems.

 

[TomE]

Given some of the posts I've read here and the fact that people are so litigious, I almost wonder if Lotus is dodging bullets? It's one thing to deal with people's assumptions and wishful thinking. It's a whole lot to put something in writing and deal with legal threats.

What most people don't realize is that it takes a lot of effort and expense to bring online a communications department and deal with any number of diverse questions. You can have someone answer an email or the phone, but what if they say the wrong thing? Or what they say is misinterpreted?

Lotus is still a small company, despite the major investment from Geely, and they're still learning their way. The ironic unintended consequences of initial success are also biting them. But this shall pass once deliveries start. We're only a few months away from UK deliveries and probably much sooner for magazine reviews (given a few leaked pics). Patience, lads!

For whatever reasons, Lotus took an active decision to follow the comms strategy they have been following. What we're seeing is not them being wrong-footed but what they have planned to do.

This was based on the simple principle that they didn't want to publish information unless they could be confident in it. And as this car is not yet approved or in production that meant there was quite a lot of uncertainty about volumes, timings, final specifications, design details etc. So they chose not to say stuff. That's clearly been contributing to the problems and I think they know that.

With approvals and production getting closer, info is naturally becoming clearer and hence I expect we'll see more comms over the next 1-2 months.

 

[TomE]

Lack of comms isn’t the end of the world as long as you can rely on the last comm being truthful. Not sure if that makes any sense? I never had any angst about not hearing anything for months until I’ve started learning that the comms I was given and have relied on all this time were likely false. Ie. my dealer told me in the summer that they had talked to Lotus and I would 100% get an FE it’s just a question of 2022 or 2023 (and 2023 is my expectation). I called Lotus HQ USA to confirm this as well and was told absolutely based on my deposit date. If delays happened and they don’t even deliver first cars until 2023 it’s personally no biggie. But after they said my deposit date will get an FE and e-mailed me the FE spec and price and then 7-8+ months later they tell me nope, no more FEs…”HOWEVER, good news - you can config a car that won’t be an FE but you can get the same options as the FE and it’s only going to cost you 10K more and you’ll only get it a year later than another customer that placed a deposit request later yet already got their FE order in”. If the comms had ANY credibility then I would prefer that every 6-12 months vs not being able to trust a word they said. I value honesty and integrity and if I got that they could have charged 20K more for an FE and I’d gladly pay it vs. a penny more for a “bait and switch”.

I love Lotus cars, and I LOVE the Emira. But I just don’t see how you can shake hands and buy a product from someone who’s knowingly screwing you and seemingly ok with it, personally I can’t.

Maybe I'm being over-generous but I don't think Lotus have deliberately mis-communicated or lied. I know the unprecedented level of demand meant they had to re-think production startup and revise the country allocations they'd been assuming at the reveal. Supply chain issues meant bringing some decisions earlier and type approval delays meant holding back on some comms. We've seen "spring" dates slide to June and I've seen dates for promised updates approach and fade with no comms or reset of expectations.

We have no idea why they initially said there were no limits on V6 engine supply (for FE + Base) and a time-based deadline for FE orders then changed to apparently a capped numbers basis. They haven't explained, and that's the part that's most frustrating. There's bound to be a reason, so why don't Lotus tell us given it's a major change and now disappoints a load of customers.

 

[TomE]

It is difficult/impossible to believe this includes Canada since 2 dealers this week have said they don’t officially know how many cars they are getting this year. Dealers are lying to customers?

I passing on what I've been told, which is that they have all been told their allocations.

 

[TomE]

Well said @DF_Toronto. Some buyers, those who operate from a set of consistently applied core values, may experience a genuine conflict as to whether to move forward with their purchase despite having the means to do so. Even @TomE, whose information on this forum has been our lifeline, was duped to believe that your car, when you eventually receive it, will be a first edition if you wish, as long as you place a deposit by March (see his statement in post #21 in the thread “Dealer asked for ADM to move up the list”. No matter who’s at fault for communicating this expectation, it ultimately affects lotus negatively, not just because of a lost sale, but also because of a mark against their credibility. Wanting them to be successful, it’s this effect about which I worry. Sure, are there others to step into the abandoned slot? Of course. But on the back end there will be one less buyer, or maybe more. I truly believe lotus may need to have a remedy for this situation. Either honor a first edition price for a car configured as a first edition, even if it’s not badged that way, and with the flexibility of choosing non FE colors. Or extend the FE builds to enable delivery of FE cars to those who put in a timely deposit (date TBD). It’s great they increased their FE allotment from 500 to 700 for North America, but they never told people that the limit would be 500 yet continued to take deposits under that apparent misperception. Once again, almost all problems are communication problems.

Duped is one way of looking at it but that word to me implies they deliberately set out to mislead me/customers (it wasn't just me that was told about March). I lean towards cock up rather than conspiracy on these things.

Something has happened to prompt this major change of approach. We don't know what that is and given the impact Lotus should really explain themselves. It could be supply factors, production sequencing between V6 FE and i4, decisions by Geely etc - we don't know.