Cold start stalling

[scc.131.fe]

Mine did this for the first time today. Got half a tank of fuel in and haven't filled up since I last brimmed it a week ago.

Started perfectly on the second attempt. Interesting it also threw an error code and a check engine light. Plugged the code reader in, see attached.

Car had sat for a week since last start (not on charge and last use was a 55 mile drive) Cleared the codes and now all fine again.

Having built and mapped more than a few cars in my time the syptom seems to fall inline with the fuel pump not priming before start, and therefore not having fuel rail pressure to fire the initial injector priming pulse which is typically much longer than the pulse fired during running. You'd expect the pump to prime either when the drivers door is opened or closed (my old RS4, M140 and others have done this and you can hear it) or when the start button is pressed just before it cranks. This would also explain why it starts ok on the second button press as the fuel rails then have pressure and normally in a stall situation the pump would re-prime along with the priming pulse being delivered - and this kind of falls inline with the 'work around' where they are suggesting turn on the ignition and wait a few seconds before a second press to start.

Either way, if my thoughts are correct (which they may well not be as I don't know the exact set up in the Emira, yet) it would be software and not fuel related.

View attachment 51443

Good details! Anyone have a guess as to how rail pressure could be low on start without setting a P0087, P008A or similar code?

 

[Tobiasz17azs]

93 cold start , sometimes stall. 91 gas no problem .

 

[SSJAR]

I have had the cold start issue happen twice to me. The first time I have no idea what the conditions were and everything was fine after I turned the car off and then restarted. Yesterday, I jumped in the car, put the car into neutral (not using the clutch) placed my foot on the brake, and started the car. This was prior to the screens finishing their boot process. The car stuttered a bit and I immediately turned it off and it then restarted with no issue.

Also, I typically don't lock my doors, I say this because sometimes if they are locked and I unlock I can here some "things" going on in the car...

Based on some of the comments in this thread I got to thinking about the fuel pressure and I am by no means an expert so just trying a couple different options to determine what is happening. I use OBD Fusion to monitor the car when I drive. The fuel rail pressure at idle is about 50psi. On start up the readings go up to 90-100psi before coming right back down. Also, not sure how fast the bluetooth OBD reader is, so I could be missing some values as it is not updating quick enough.

The bluetooth adapter I use remains powered on constantly, I typically unplug it to not drain the battery, but I left it in to do some testing. This morning I went out and before opening the doors I connected my app to the OBD reader and the fuel rail pressure was at 32.6psi. I waited for the screens to start up and I did not see it jump up until I started the car and everything was normal. I shut the car off and even several hours later the fuel rail pressure was at 52.2psi.

I have attached some screenshots and I am going to keep testing different scenarios which might take a few days. What I am curious to see is if the car sits for a longer period of time, will that fuel rail pressure drop below 32.6 psi and if it does, when I get in the car does it jump up prior to hitting the start button on its own? For example, does pressing the clutch in or applying your foot on the brake send a signal to the fuel pump? Does waiting for the screens to fully boot give the fuel rail pressure time to rise? If I don't see any of those variables I will see if I can recreate a stuttering start and then look to see what the fuel rail pressure is.

Anyway, sorry for the long post and if you have any ideas or values you think might shed a light on this open to suggestions.

 

[NicolasB]

It's been probably over a year since I mentioned it is likely a low fuel pressure issue at startup. I had a car with this problem 25 years ago. Lotus had things pretty well dialed in with the Evora, then they went and tried to make it better and really failed.

 

[nimbus]

Whatever the underlying mechanical reason, it is definitely ECU related.

There was a group which purchased JUBU ECUs a while ago, and while that caused its own problems, one thing that stopped was stalling when cold.

It's probably related to some emissions tuning which aftermarket ECUs won't be obsessed with.

 

[EmiraHK]

Whatever the underlying mechanical reason, it is definitely ECU related.

There was a group which purchased JUBU ECUs a while ago, and while that caused its own problems, one thing that stopped was stalling when cold.

It's probably related to some emissions tuning which aftermarket ECUs won't be obsessed with.

While I agree that it is likely an ECU issue, more specifically an emissions tuning by Lotus resulting in different fuel tolerances, I think that many (including myself) have found changing the fuel used has helped in resolving the issue.

I have raised this issue to Lotus multiple times over the past year, but they have not once come back with a definitive answer, only to say "please update your software to the latest". Since I have not had the issues since switching fuels, I have not bothered to follow up since.

 

[SSJAR]

Just a quick update, as I have been monitoring the fuel rail pressure prior to unlocking or opening the car after it has been sitting. The short of it is that there is no rhyme or reason. I just went out of town for a week and upon returning, the fuel rail pressure was in the high 40's and the car started no problem.

Other times I had been monitoring, within a 16-20 hour period, prior to starting up, it read in the mid teens. Seems that when it gets below 30psi or so is when I typically see it have a hard time starting until i turn it off and then it starts up just fine. When this happens and I am reading the fuel pressure, on the the second start it jumps up immediately like it should.

Here is the part that is not good, when I do see a low fuel pressure reading, no matter what I do, unlock, put foot on break, push clutch pedal in, wait for all screens to start, and even press the start button to go into accessory mode has no effect on the fuel pressure. Seems like their is no way to get the car to kick on the high pressure fuel pump without actually starting it.

Never tried this with any of my previous cars, so I am by no means an expert in high pressure fuel pumps and the way they should normally act.

Just thought I would share some of my most recent readings.

 

[Nova]

Just a quick update, as I have been monitoring the fuel rail pressure prior to unlocking or opening the car after it has been sitting. The short of it is that there is no rhyme or reason. I just went out of town for a week and upon returning, the fuel rail pressure was in the high 40's and the car started no problem.

Other times I had been monitoring, within a 16-20 hour period, prior to starting up, it read in the mid teens. Seems that when it gets below 30psi or so is when I typically see it have a hard time starting until i turn it off and then it starts up just fine. When this happens and I am reading the fuel pressure, on the the second start it jumps up immediately like it should.

Here is the part that is not good, when I do see a low fuel pressure reading, no matter what I do, unlock, put foot on break, push clutch pedal in, wait for all screens to start, and even press the start button to go into accessory mode has no effect on the fuel pressure. Seems like their is no way to get the car to kick on the high pressure fuel pump without actually starting it.

Never tried this with any of my previous cars, so I am by no means an expert in high pressure fuel pumps and the way they should normally act.

Just thought I would share some of my most recent readings.

You are a gentleman and a scholar. Thanks for sharing this info.

 

[Steve24]

Excellent update above, thanks.
In another update which helps only to further confuse the issue, since I read in another thread about waiting for the picture of the Emira to disappear from the main screen before trying to start, every start has been fine!
This is after I have consistently been doing the “workaround” suggested by my dealer months ago (which did also work).
Yet if I ignore both of the above it’s a lottery as to whether I get a decent start on the first attempt or not.
Nothing has changed re the type of fuel so I’m more convinced than ever that that is not the issue (at least for those of us in Oz).

No wonder Lotus seem to have NFI what is going on…

 

[Rupes]

Question for those mechanically inclined, is there any actual harm to the engine/components because of the sputtering start? It can sometimes feel violent as the engine is choked of fuel before it can actually start.

 

[m30rpg]

my car is in for annual service, this cold start spluttering is known problem. Lotus and Bosch who make ecu working on a perm fix likely be out early 2025 the lotus team said when I was in other day.

Car got 3 software updates to take place so will report back on how it’s performing once I get her back

 

[m30rpg]

my car is in for annual service, this cold start spluttering is known problem. Lotus and Bosch who make ecu working on a perm fix likely be out early 2025 the lotus team said when I was in other day.

Car got 3 software updates to take place so will report back on how it’s performing once I get her back

I can report back, it’s made the starting issues worse! Driven car 4 times today and each time had to do the whole get out open close boot locked open car and then it turns over

So that’s worked well….. not

Oh and engine management light is permanently on now but no warning messages and car driving fine

OBd reader arrives in next couple of days so do a check and see if can clear it or at least work out what is going on if anything.

But turning over thing to go from happening once every few months to 4/5 times now in one day doesn’t fill me with much joy regarding software and ECU

 

[Blackthought_]

Not sure if this has any correlation or not but as the temperature becomes cooler, my car has started stronger and stronger every time. I have not had any software updates in months

 

[EmiraHK]

Out of curiosity, has anyone with an i4 had this issue? Or is this unique to V6 models?

 

[danmessy]

Not sure if this has any correlation or not but as the temperature becomes cooler, my car has started stronger and stronger every time. I have not had any software updates in months

Interesting, my problem resolved a few months ago entirely which were going into cooler months - in haven't seen the problem in ages (I thought as I changed fuel brands), but now the cold start for each day is coming back with avengence (same fuel no software updates)as we go into spring and heating up for summer. I live in a fairly hot climate (West Australia). I think my local dealer mentioned something like atmospheric conditions but I didn't think much of it further, given there really is not confirmed answer...

 

[Man.v.Cars]

My car has been at the dealers for 4 weeks (they state they have no idea how much longer it will take) trying to solve this same problem They are coordinating with Lotus Engineers and to date nothing is working, sensors checked and changed, various settings changed but all to no avail. Luckily, the ECU keeps a record of all the events so they could see when it happened and it happens while at the dealers.

I was told they've currently spent 40 hours on the problem , thank god its under warranty, and lotus keep asking for various data from different ECUs. It seems a fault with the air bag system was spotted by Lotus which entailed some cabin interior removal to sort out.

Not a single warning light or fault code has been recorded or shown up, just when its happened. It started when the temperature dropped mid October, I'm in West Yorkshire. Once its sorted it will be a fix for everyone else having the issue. My doors have just been ordered and expected Feb/March.

I hate this car with a vengeance.

 

[Andrew P]

While ECU / software is the underlying problem I am now pretty sure that the type of fuel used does make a difference. I have generally used Good quality E5 Fuel (Shell / similar) and had cold starting issues but having switched to lower octane E10 is has started fine every time (once the higher octane stuff was fully cleared through).

 

[Man.v.Cars]

While ECU / software is the underlying problem I am now pretty sure that the type of fuel used does make a difference. I have generally used Good quality E5 Fuel (Shell / similar) and had cold starting issues but having switched to lower octane E10 is has started fine every time (once the higher octane stuff was fully cleared through).

And yet the one of the 1st questions asked was 'you are using premium fuel'. The Ecu, engine wiring loom, various sensors, solenoids and coil packs have been replaced in the quest for a solution. Hopefully, I can pick the car up on Friday as it is being tested tomorrow after all work was finished today.

 

[Nick Sticks]

While ECU / software is the underlying problem I am now pretty sure that the type of fuel used does make a difference. I have generally used Good quality E5 Fuel (Shell / similar) and had cold starting issues but having switched to lower octane E10 is has started fine every time (once the higher octane stuff was fully cleared through).

As per my post at the start of August I've been using BP Ultimate (97 RON, E5) and since then I've had no issues, if you want to use a premium fuel.

 

[Rupes]

No issues for mine anymore. Now sits on a battery tender when not in use, and a long hold of the start button to "boot up" the car before the clutch is depressed. Not sure if one/both of these things actually matter, but I'm not going to stop doing it because it seems to be an easy solution that works for me.