Colour advice please!

[EmiraMike]

Hi all,

I’m a long time forum reader, first time writer. Firstly a huge thanks to everybody for all your posts, which have been massively helpful throughout. It goes without saying, but special mention to @TomE & @Eagle7 for feeding my Emira addiction with expert level support & beautiful renders!

I placed my first deposit on July 14th & I’m getting excited about my 3rd phone call hence my first post.

I live in Kent, England where we have a good mix of scenic coastal drives & twisty country lanes.

I’m currently driving a Porsche Cayman 718 T which is an absolute pleasure but, like so many of us on here, I fell head over heels for the Emira’s curves so will be parting company with the Cayman. I suppose in this regard I am Lotus’s target audience.

My initial order was…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Hethel yellow
• Black alcantara yellow stitch
• Full black pack
• Black wheels
• Red brakes

However, since the new & much improved configurator, I have since called Lotus (who were very helpful) & changed my order to…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Magma red
• Tan leather
• Lower black pack
• Black wheels
• Yellow brakes

The magma has certainly grown on me since the online configurator was updated, but I’m still a bit worried about changing to red after holding the magma paint sample in my hand during my roadshow visit to B&C. It seemed a bit too burgundy back then for my liking? Hopefully we’ll get to see actual photos/videos of all six paint colours soon!

The more I’ve thought about the car (there has been a lot of thinking!!!) the more I’ve decided that the tan interior is the most important thing for me. So my question is, would the tan leather interior go with the Hethel yellow exterior with full black pack?

I keep coming back to this as my ideal configuration but it is, perhaps, a bit ‘out there 70s retro vibe’ so I might need to stick on some flares & play the Bee Gees loud through the KEF speakers (which have been made here in Kent)!

I recently chatted with the helpful folks at B&C to ask their opinion. They said that the Hethel yellow, full black pack & tan interior is definitely something which has grown on them & they think it will work, but is obviously a personal choice.

I’ve been looking at photos online for reference & have found a very funky image of a yellow 70s Lamborghini Countach with a tan leather interior. It looks amazing, which has not helped with my indecision dilemma!

I’ve tried to attach the photo of the yellow & tan Countach, but I’m afraid I’m a bit of a technophobe so haven’t been able to work out how to do it so any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks again to you all. Here’s to feeding our collective Emira addictions!

 

[Cwolf]

Hi all,

I’m a long time forum reader, first time writer. Firstly a huge thanks to everybody for all your posts, which have been massively helpful throughout. It goes without saying, but special mention to @TomE & @Eagle7 for feeding my Emira addiction with expert level support & beautiful renders!

I placed my first deposit on July 14th & I’m getting excited about my 3rd phone call hence my first post.

I live in Kent, England where we have a good mix of scenic coastal drives & twisty country lanes.

I’m currently driving a Porsche Cayman 718 T which is an absolute pleasure but, like so many of us on here, I fell head over heels for the Emira’s curves so will be parting company with the Cayman. I suppose in this regard I am Lotus’s target audience.

My initial order was…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Hethel yellow
• Black alcantara yellow stitch
• Full black pack
• Black wheels
• Red brakes

However, since the new & much improved configurator, I have since called Lotus (who were very helpful) & changed my order to…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Magma red
• Tan leather
• Lower black pack
• Black wheels
• Yellow brakes

The magma has certainly grown on me since the online configurator was updated, but I’m still a bit worried about changing to red after holding the magma paint sample in my hand during my roadshow visit to B&C. It seemed a bit too burgundy back then for my liking? Hopefully we’ll get to see actual photos/videos of all six paint colours soon!

The more I’ve thought about the car (there has been a lot of thinking!!!) the more I’ve decided that the tan interior is the most important thing for me. So my question is, would the tan leather interior go with the Hethel yellow exterior with full black pack?

I keep coming back to this as my ideal configuration but it is, perhaps, a bit ‘out there 70s retro vibe’ so I might need to stick on some flares & play the Bee Gees loud through the KEF speakers (which have been made here in Kent)!

I recently chatted with the helpful folks at B&C to ask their opinion. They said that the Hethel yellow, full black pack & tan interior is definitely something which has grown on them & they think it will work, but is obviously a personal choice.

I’ve been looking at photos online for reference & have found a very funky image of a yellow 70s Lamborghini Countach with a tan leather interior. It looks amazing, which has not helped with my indecision dilemma!

I’ve tried to attach the photo of the yellow & tan Countach, but I’m afraid I’m a bit of a technophobe so haven’t been able to work out how to do it so any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks again to you all. Here’s to feeding our collective Emira addictions!

I am getting Green and originally was going with black Alcantera with yellow stitching. Then saw the new configurator and the green is pretty dark so switched to Tan. It is hard to do colors in and out without actually seeing a car. But I think the Tan interior has enough black to work with most colors like red. I would pick red over yellow but that is just personal preference.

 

[EmiraMike]

Hi all,

I’m a long time forum reader, first time writer. Firstly a huge thanks to everybody for all your posts, which have been massively helpful throughout. It goes without saying, but special mention to @TomE & @Eagle7 for feeding my Emira addiction with expert level support & beautiful renders!

I placed my first deposit on July 14th & I’m getting excited about my 3rd phone call hence my first post.

I live in Kent, England where we have a good mix of scenic coastal drives & twisty country lanes.

I’m currently driving a Porsche Cayman 718 T which is an absolute pleasure but, like so many of us on here, I fell head over heels for the Emira’s curves so will be parting company with the Cayman. I suppose in this regard I am Lotus’s target audience.

My initial order was…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Hethel yellow
• Black alcantara yellow stitch
• Full black pack
• Black wheels
• Red brakes

However, since the new & much improved configurator, I have since called Lotus (who were very helpful) & changed my order to…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Magma red
• Tan leather
• Lower black pack
• Black wheels
• Yellow brakes

The magma has certainly grown on me since the online configurator was updated, but I’m still a bit worried about changing to red after holding the magma paint sample in my hand during my roadshow visit to B&C. It seemed a bit too burgundy back then for my liking? Hopefully we’ll get to see actual photos/videos of all six paint colours soon!

The more I’ve thought about the car (there has been a lot of thinking!!!) the more I’ve decided that the tan interior is the most important thing for me. So my question is, would the tan leather interior go with the Hethel yellow exterior with full black pack?

I keep coming back to this as my ideal configuration but it is, perhaps, a bit ‘out there 70s retro vibe’ so I might need to stick on some flares & play the Bee Gees loud through the KEF speakers (which have been made here in Kent)!

I recently chatted with the helpful folks at B&C to ask their opinion. They said that the Hethel yellow, full black pack & tan interior is definitely something which has grown on them & they think it will work, but is obviously a personal choice.

I’ve been looking at photos online for reference & have found a very funky image of a yellow 70s Lamborghini Countach with a tan leather interior. It looks amazing, which has not helped with my indecision dilemma!

I’ve tried to attach the photo of the yellow & tan Countach, but I’m afraid I’m a bit of a technophobe so haven’t been able to work out how to do it so any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks again to you all. Here’s to feeding our collective Emira addictions!

Update: I’ve worked out how to add photos! Here’s the 70s Lambo I’ve mentioned plus my Cayman, Hethel yellow sample against Porsche racing yellow & my 2 Emira configurations.

 

[Daz]

I think the tan in the magma looks awesome but it also works with the yellow. It’s truly does boil down to personal preference, I think it’s going to be a difficult decision on the magma until we get to see it in the flesh. I ,too, am going for the magma but I’ve had my fair share of sleepless nights over it being ‘too burgundy’

 

[EmiraMike]

I am getting Green and originally was going with black Alcantera with yellow stitching. Then saw the new configurator and the green is pretty dark so switched to Tan. It is hard to do colors in and out without actually seeing a car. But I think the Tan interior has enough black to work with most colors like red. I would pick red over yellow but that is just personal preference.

Thanks very much. I completely agree about it being hard to choose inside/outside combinations without seeing a ‘real’ car. I love the green too which looks very classy. I have considered the DV green option but I worry that my cleaning OCD would struggle. I used to own a black F Type 400 Sport in black which was a full time job to keep looking anything like clean!

 

[EmiraMike]

I think the tan in the magma looks awesome but it also works with the yellow. It’s truly does boil down to personal preference, I think it’s going to be a difficult decision on the magma until we get to see it in the flesh. I ,too, am going for the magma but I’ve had my fair share of sleepless nights over it being ‘too burgundy’

Thanks for your thoughts. I’m glad it’s not just me with the excited, sleepless nights!

 

[TomE]

Welcome, congratulations and you're getting really close to that 3rd call about delivery date. No wonder you're excited and thinking even more about the options!

So much of this comes down to personal preferences and what's influenced your car thoughts over the years. If that yellow & tan Countach has been a significant influence then I'd say go for it. The colour combination will look great on an Emira and it's nice to have a backstory on why you picked it. Clearly your 718 shows you're not afraid of a bright colour

But Magma and tan will look great too. I think the paint colour will be more complex than you could gauge from the disk paint samples. Certainly from seeing the Magma on a full car at Hethel it has much more flow and variation with lighting and viewing angle than the small sample suggest, and the metallic effect is probably the strongest on Magma (then Nimbus close second). The planform pictures of Magma give a better impression of the variation but still not as good as the full car. Hopefully more pictures in March.

 

[EmiraMike]

Welcome, congratulations and you're getting really close to that 3rd call about delivery date. No wonder you're excited and thinking even more about the options!

So much of this comes down to personal preferences and what's influenced your car thoughts over the years. If that yellow & tan Countach has been a significant influence then I'd say go for it. The colour combination will look great on an Emira and it's nice to have a backstory on why you picked it. Clearly your 718 shows you're not afraid of a bright colour

But Magma and tan will look great too. I think the paint colour will be more complex than you could gauge from the disk paint samples. Certainly from seeing the Magma on a full car at Hethel it has much more flow and variation with lighting and viewing angle than the small sample suggest, and the metallic effect is probably the strongest on Magma (then Nimbus close second). The planform pictures of Magma give a better impression of the variation but still not as good as the full car. Hopefully more pictures in March.

Thanks very much Tom. That’s really helpful. My switch to Magma came in part from the new configurator, but also from your’s & others feedback following your recent visit to see the cars at Hethel. As you say, not long to go now!

 

[Arsalan]

I went with magma red, tan interior, full black pack, and semi black rims. I am still debating on alcantera steering wheel though. Anyway you configure this car you can’t go wrong

 

[EmiraMike]

I went with magma red, tan interior, full black pack, and semi black rims. I am still debating on alcantera steering wheel though. Anyway you configure this car you can’t go wrong

Thanks. That’s a great sounding car you’ve ordered! I love the alcantara steering wheel in my 718. It still looks & feels special after 2 years of use & I think the alcantara wheel will work well in the Emira with the tan leather & black alcantara headliner.

 

[eclat2emira]

Hi all,

I’m a long time forum reader, first time writer. Firstly a huge thanks to everybody for all your posts, which have been massively helpful throughout. It goes without saying, but special mention to @TomE & @Eagle7 for feeding my Emira addiction with expert level support & beautiful renders!

I placed my first deposit on July 14th & I’m getting excited about my 3rd phone call hence my first post.

I live in Kent, England where we have a good mix of scenic coastal drives & twisty country lanes.

I’m currently driving a Porsche Cayman 718 T which is an absolute pleasure but, like so many of us on here, I fell head over heels for the Emira’s curves so will be parting company with the Cayman. I suppose in this regard I am Lotus’s target audience.

My initial order was…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Hethel yellow
• Black alcantara yellow stitch
• Full black pack
• Black wheels
• Red brakes

However, since the new & much improved configurator, I have since called Lotus (who were very helpful) & changed my order to…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Magma red
• Tan leather
• Lower black pack
• Black wheels
• Yellow brakes

The magma has certainly grown on me since the online configurator was updated, but I’m still a bit worried about changing to red after holding the magma paint sample in my hand during my roadshow visit to B&C. It seemed a bit too burgundy back then for my liking? Hopefully we’ll get to see actual photos/videos of all six paint colours soon!

The more I’ve thought about the car (there has been a lot of thinking!!!) the more I’ve decided that the tan interior is the most important thing for me. So my question is, would the tan leather interior go with the Hethel yellow exterior with full black pack?

I keep coming back to this as my ideal configuration but it is, perhaps, a bit ‘out there 70s retro vibe’ so I might need to stick on some flares & play the Bee Gees loud through the KEF speakers (which have been made here in Kent)!

I recently chatted with the helpful folks at B&C to ask their opinion. They said that the Hethel yellow, full black pack & tan interior is definitely something which has grown on them & they think it will work, but is obviously a personal choice.

I’ve been looking at photos online for reference & have found a very funky image of a yellow 70s Lamborghini Countach with a tan leather interior. It looks amazing, which has not helped with my indecision dilemma!

I’ve tried to attach the photo of the yellow & tan Countach, but I’m afraid I’m a bit of a technophobe so haven’t been able to work out how to do it so any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks again to you all. Here’s to feeding our collective Emira addictions!

Hi Mike, great to have you joining in the conversation!

I've seen your Countach photo below and am trying to weigh what is best to say and if I thought it was nothing I would say nothing!

Here goes - if that combo means something really special to you and you like it then no matter what anyone else (including me!) says you should go for it. It does however sound like you are unsure and possibly conflicted?

As an artist and signwriter used to working with colours I don't find yellow and tan sit well together. I did a quick search online and none of the examples I saw felt right. Tan will go really well with every other Emira colour except Seneca, which is marginal as the blue is a bit too light for it to work for me. Mid or deep blue with tan - knockout! I am going tan and Dark Verdant - a bit obvious possibly but that is because it works so well.

Magma and tan - lovely!

If I was going Hethel yellow I'd go black interior with the yellow contrast stitch - this says sports car, classic combo - and Lotus! (I've written this then realised it was your other spec!)

The tricky thing with colours is you have emotion, opinion and the fact that people perceive colours differently - but then you also have colour theory about contrasting and complimentary colours, which is a recognised science (just ask Russell Carr and his team!)

As I mentioned, I wrestled with saying anything at all but it was your uncertainty that prompted me to share my thoughts - I'd hate you to go for a spec that you remained forever a bit unsure about, which is where I thought you may be heading. BUT if YOU love it and you are sure and the opinion of others (including me!) is not a factor for you then follow your heart, absolutely.

I hope that is helpful, please don't see it as negative as it is certainly not intended that way.

 

[Porter]

I think the tan in the magma looks awesome but it also works with the yellow. It’s truly does boil down to personal preference, I think it’s going to be a difficult decision on the magma until we get to see it in the flesh. I ,too, am going for the magma but I’ve had my fair share of sleepless nights over it being ‘too burgundy’

Don't stress too much, even if it trends toward "burgundy" in low light, it just raises the classiness in my opinion. Think of it like a billiards 7 ball.

 

[NickR]

Hi all,

I’m a long time forum reader, first time writer. Firstly a huge thanks to everybody for all your posts, which have been massively helpful throughout. It goes without saying, but special mention to @TomE & @Eagle7 for feeding my Emira addiction with expert level support & beautiful renders!

I placed my first deposit on July 14th & I’m getting excited about my 3rd phone call hence my first post.

I live in Kent, England where we have a good mix of scenic coastal drives & twisty country lanes.

I’m currently driving a Porsche Cayman 718 T which is an absolute pleasure but, like so many of us on here, I fell head over heels for the Emira’s curves so will be parting company with the Cayman. I suppose in this regard I am Lotus’s target audience.

My initial order was…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Hethel yellow
• Black alcantara yellow stitch
• Full black pack
• Black wheels
• Red brakes

However, since the new & much improved configurator, I have since called Lotus (who were very helpful) & changed my order to…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Magma red
• Tan leather
• Lower black pack
• Black wheels
• Yellow brakes

The magma has certainly grown on me since the online configurator was updated, but I’m still a bit worried about changing to red after holding the magma paint sample in my hand during my roadshow visit to B&C. It seemed a bit too burgundy back then for my liking? Hopefully we’ll get to see actual photos/videos of all six paint colours soon!

The more I’ve thought about the car (there has been a lot of thinking!!!) the more I’ve decided that the tan interior is the most important thing for me. So my question is, would the tan leather interior go with the Hethel yellow exterior with full black pack?

I keep coming back to this as my ideal configuration but it is, perhaps, a bit ‘out there 70s retro vibe’ so I might need to stick on some flares & play the Bee Gees loud through the KEF speakers (which have been made here in Kent)!

I recently chatted with the helpful folks at B&C to ask their opinion. They said that the Hethel yellow, full black pack & tan interior is definitely something which has grown on them & they think it will work, but is obviously a personal choice.

I’ve been looking at photos online for reference & have found a very funky image of a yellow 70s Lamborghini Countach with a tan leather interior. It looks amazing, which has not helped with my indecision dilemma!

I’ve tried to attach the photo of the yellow & tan Countach, but I’m afraid I’m a bit of a technophobe so haven’t been able to work out how to do it so any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks again to you all. Here’s to feeding our collective Emira addictions!

Both these combos are great. Personally i wouldn't mix and match your choices. Either one is going to be great!

 

[DJS]

View attachment 3209Update: I’ve worked out how to add photos! Here’s the 70s Lambo I’ve mentioned plus my Cayman, Hethel yellow sample against Porsche racing yellow & my 2 Emira configurations. View attachment 3211View attachment 3212View attachment 3213View attachment 3210

Is the yellow Emira more of a mustard colour like on the new Porsche 992 GT3?

 

[roundincircles]

Agonising over colour choice is a big part of the route to purchase.

I have often found seeing a colour in the flesh can completely alter my take......is it a lemon or buttery yellow.......is it a post box red or, brown or blue red ( you now know I no nothing about colours!). Is it a purple blue or....

Interiors have some 'do not do' combinations.....like an orange leather interior with a Volcano Red exterior Mclaren......I kid you not.

So get to see in the flesh and ask the experts.

Not much help I guess

 

[EmiraMike]

Hi Mike, great to have you joining in the conversation!

I've seen your Countach photo below and am trying to weigh what is best to say and if I thought it was nothing I would say nothing!

Here goes - if that combo means something really special to you and you like it then no matter what anyone else (including me!) says you should go for it. It does however sound like you are unsure and possibly conflicted?

As an artist and signwriter used to working with colours I don't find yellow and tan sit well together. I did a quick search online and none of the examples I saw felt right. Tan will go really well with every other other Emira colour except Seneca, which is marginal as the blue is a bit too light for it to work for me. Mid or deep blue with tan - knockout! I am going tan and Dark Verdant - a bit obvious possibly but that is because it works so well.

Magma and tan - lovely!

If I was going Hethel yellow I'd go black interior with the yellow contrast stitch - this says sports car, classic combo - and Lotus! (I've written this then realised it was your other spec!)

The tricky thing with colours is you have emotion, opinion and the fact that people perceive colours differently - but then you also have colour theory about contrasting and complimentary colours, which is a recognised science (just ask Russell Carr and his team!)

As I mentioned, I wrestled with saying anything at all but it was your uncertainty that that prompted me to share my thoughts - I'd hate you to go for a spec that you remained forever a bit unsure about, which is where I thought you may be heading. BUT if YOU love it and you are sure and the opinion of others (including me!) is not a factor for you then follow your heart, absolutely.

I hope that is helpful, please don't see it as negative as it is certainly not intended that way.

That’s a really thoughtful reply. Thanks for taking the time to share your advice, which is hugely helpful.

I’m certainly uncertain about the yellow & tan combo. There’s a bit of me that says “Go for it! It’s unique” & another big bit that says “No way! That’ll look far too insipid & washed out.” One thing is for sure. It would certainly be an expensive mistake!

After weighing up all the pros & cons, I think the red/tan combo will tick more boxes, and I definitely feel more reassured about the “too burgundy” issue after reading @TomE ’s helpful comment.

I was initially keen on the black alcantara with yellow stitch with the Hethel yellow paint but, after sitting in the show car’s interior, I’ve been worried that it’s a) too dark & b) the alcantara being right next to the cup holders sends shivers down my spine!

My last few cars (Audi TTRS, F Type & Cayman 718) have all had dark interiors so I’m ready for a change. I used to drive a gunmetal grey Chrysler Crossfire with a burnt orange interior, which I loved.

Thanks again for your advice. I’m still pinching myself that my next car will be an Emira in any colour combination!

 

[EmiraMike]

Don't stress too much, even if it trends toward "burgundy" in low light, it just raises the classiness in my opinion. Think of it like a billiards 7 ball.

View attachment 3222

Oh yeah! Nicely put thanks. You’ve gotta love perception. Change the way you look at things & the things you look at change

 

[TomE]

Is the yellow Emira more of a mustard colour like on the new Porsche 992 GT3?

There is definitely a mustard tone to Hethel Yellow. Mike's picture of the sample disk against his yellow Porsche accentuates the mustard-ness, and it's not that strong in real life.

It's similar to previous Lotus yellows like Saffron Yellow and Norfolk Mustard. The configurator is pretty close to what I've seen.

 

[BeHappy]

Hi all,

I’m a long time forum reader, first time writer. Firstly a huge thanks to everybody for all your posts, which have been massively helpful throughout. It goes without saying, but special mention to @TomE & @Eagle7 for feeding my Emira addiction with expert level support & beautiful renders!

I placed my first deposit on July 14th & I’m getting excited about my 3rd phone call hence my first post.

I live in Kent, England where we have a good mix of scenic coastal drives & twisty country lanes.

I’m currently driving a Porsche Cayman 718 T which is an absolute pleasure but, like so many of us on here, I fell head over heels for the Emira’s curves so will be parting company with the Cayman. I suppose in this regard I am Lotus’s target audience.

My initial order was…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Hethel yellow
• Black alcantara yellow stitch
• Full black pack
• Black wheels
• Red brakes

However, since the new & much improved configurator, I have since called Lotus (who were very helpful) & changed my order to…

• Manual V6
• Touring
• Magma red
• Tan leather
• Lower black pack
• Black wheels
• Yellow brakes

The magma has certainly grown on me since the online configurator was updated, but I’m still a bit worried about changing to red after holding the magma paint sample in my hand during my roadshow visit to B&C. It seemed a bit too burgundy back then for my liking? Hopefully we’ll get to see actual photos/videos of all six paint colours soon!

The more I’ve thought about the car (there has been a lot of thinking!!!) the more I’ve decided that the tan interior is the most important thing for me. So my question is, would the tan leather interior go with the Hethel yellow exterior with full black pack?

I keep coming back to this as my ideal configuration but it is, perhaps, a bit ‘out there 70s retro vibe’ so I might need to stick on some flares & play the Bee Gees loud through the KEF speakers (which have been made here in Kent)!

I recently chatted with the helpful folks at B&C to ask their opinion. They said that the Hethel yellow, full black pack & tan interior is definitely something which has grown on them & they think it will work, but is obviously a personal choice.

I’ve been looking at photos online for reference & have found a very funky image of a yellow 70s Lamborghini Countach with a tan leather interior. It looks amazing, which has not helped with my indecision dilemma!

I’ve tried to attach the photo of the yellow & tan Countach, but I’m afraid I’m a bit of a technophobe so haven’t been able to work out how to do it so any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks again to you all. Here’s to feeding our collective Emira addictions!

After the configurator I also immediately thought I was going to order the magma with the tan interior however I have ordered Nimbus with tan, as I don’t think it will look like this in real life. My exact concern is same as yours in that it will have a burgundy tone. in Ades video who has seen the colour in the flesh describes it as deep rich burgundy. I definitely do not want a burgundy car or any hint of burgundy. Think tan wI’ll work best with the green, shadow grey and magma but it also goes with yellow and also doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks it’s what your happy with. Really don’t understand why Lotus won’t release us the photos of the actual cars in the actual colours ! There are so many of us agonising which colours to choose ! and for quiet a lot of us it will be too late then to change our minds

 

[EmiraMike]

Is the yellow Emira more of a mustard colour like on the new Porsche 992 GT3?

There is definitely a mustard tone to Hethel Yellow. Mike's picture of the sample disk against his yellow Porsche accentuates the mustard-ness, and it's not that strong in real life.

It's similar to previous Lotus yellows like Saffron Yellow and Norfolk Mustard. The configurator is pretty close to what I've seen.

Here’s another photo of the Hethel yellow sample I took outside B&C at the roadshow up against a yellow Elise. It’s a nice looking colour &, if it’s anything like my 718’s racing yellow, it will still look striking whether it’s freshly clean or covered in muck!