Compromises

[Eagle7]

I’ll just chime in and say you should definitely test drive the car and make a decision then. Also, anyone who says 0-60 time is irrelevant is kidding themselves. A Camry V6 whose engine is in the Emira does 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. For a “performance” car that costs $100k+ USD, shouldn’t we expect more out of it? I’ll also ask this: what if the Emira does 0-60 in 15 seconds, would that still be irrelevant? At the end of the day, it does matter and we SHOULD demand more. Don’t just take whatever Lotus gives us. Looks should be coupled with performance/personality.

Now c'mon, 0-60 is somewhat irrelevant when it's the difference between 4.7 or 4.3, obviously not if it's between 5.1 and 15 seconds. On paper it's underpowered for some, but on the road it's not for some like Harry who has a garage full of much faster cars, but he was laughing and grinning like a kid in a candy store when driving the Emira.

The OP needs to drive it before deciding, pure and simple.

 

[SmallerBaller]

you will NEVER forgive yourself if you do not get the EMIRA.

It is not perfect, but dream girls only pop up once in a while, and lets face it most hot women also can't cook gourmet . Do you want a good meal or good sex ?

If you were told you only have 8 months to live,...... would you really want to have a Porsche ? or Corvette ?

You are very rational and methodic because you are an engineer. BUT, This is an emotional decision.

Your rational mind is suppressing your emotional mind.

Remember, unlike a tattoo, if you don't like it after a year you CAN SELL IT- you are not stuck with it forever-NO HARM DONE, and so much cheaper than a divorce !!

loosen up and LIVE !! YOLO

I can say if I had 8 months, I would not want a corvette, not as sure about the Porsche! I suppose there is something to be said about a return on investment (even a negative one). The value will definitely never be zero, especially with an mid engined, manual, ICE car the way the automotive market is trending!

 

[CarGuy07]

Now c'mon, 0-60 is somewhat irrelevant when it's the difference between 4.7 or 4.3, obviously not if it's between 5.1 and 15 seconds. On paper it's underpowered for some, but on the road it's not for some like Harry who has a garage full of much faster cars, but he was laughing and grinning like a kid in a candy store when driving the Emira.

The OP needs to drive it before deciding, pure and simple.

That’s my point: acceleration does matter and while we’re not asking for 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, it should be inline with comparable cars and not slower than a V6 Camry (based on Carwow’s test which seemed like forever). My Macan S does 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds or less and it weighs over 4,000 lbs. It makes no sense to have the Emira be slower despite more power and weighs a lot less. #mindboggling

 

[kratedisease]

A bit off topic but there is no car, not even a LeFerrari or Bugatti Chiron, that is worth working 115 hours a week for.

I work 50 hours a week (used to work 80hrs a week at the peak) and my mental and physical wellbeing suffers.

But hey don't let me stop you.

Also a bit off topic.... I worked 70-75hrs a week for 16 years with only one day off a month and no vacay. Never affected my heath and it was physical work.

50 hours a week is for sissies, especially paper pushers

 

[Evotion]

You only have to wait a month to get a drive in both, and any others on your list.

I can se people going to Porsche, seeing and buying a Cayman, or whatever variant, and being VERY happy.

However, if that same person went to an independent dealer and saw ANY Cayman and the Emira side-by-side.... how many would really take the keys to the Porsche?

Get the Emira, feel special.

 

[SmallerBaller]

I’ll just chime in and say you should definitely test drive the car and make a decision then. Also, anyone who says 0-60 time is irrelevant is kidding themselves. A Camry V6 whose engine is in the Emira does 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. For a “performance” car that costs $100k+ USD, shouldn’t we expect more out of it? I’ll also ask this: what if the Emira does 0-60 in 15 seconds, would that still be irrelevant? At the end of the day, it does matter and we SHOULD demand more. Don’t just take whatever Lotus gives us. Looks should be coupled with performance/personality.

I agree that it is relevant to a decent extent, especially in this price point. When I was much younger I had a Mazdaspeed6 with some mods and a cobb tune that could pump out similar numbers to 60 (mind you it had AWD so launches were easier) but it costed me $9k. Obviously cornering was like a boat comparatively, but still for 10x the price I would expect a bit more of a difference against a modded sports sedan from 2007 in EVERY aspect.

 

[SmallerBaller]

You only have to wait a month to get a drive in both, and any others on your list.

I can se people going to Porsche, seeing and buying a Cayman, or whatever variant, and being VERY happy.

However, if that same person went to an independent dealer and saw ANY Cayman and the Emira side-by-side.... how many would really take the keys to the Porsche?

Get the Emira, feel special.

You are definitely right, the Emira certainly looks better... but that isn't my primary criteria, and I am not sure it is enough to offset the other factors. Was hoping for the amazing looks and AT LEAST not a downgrade in performance from the previous gen. Would be a more unique experience though, which I think is what you are getting at.

 

[MCS]

It has been brutal, but luckily I have recently steadied out at just one job, my engineering career. I would never do it again. It was draining on my body and mind, as you said, and was not sustainable forever, but it started out of necessity for my family and worked its way from there. Very blessed to be where I am today and that I was able to get through it all. Very grateful to be able to even consider a car like this, which is why I want to make the right choices!

The only thing I’d add is that make sure you’re financially ready to own an expensive car, whichever one that is. You don’t want to have something that gives you something to worry about when you’ve worked so hard for it. It should be a joy not a burden as it will never be a sensible decision.

It won’t be so much fun if you’re worried about miles devaluing it, fuel costing you too much or “what if I’d invested the money instead”. You get the idea. Don’t want to put you off, just making sure you go in eyes wide open and as cars go the Emira shouldn’t be a big ongoing expense (relatively speaking)

 

[MCS]

That’s my point: acceleration does matter and while we’re not asking for 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, it should be inline with comparable cars and not slower than a V6 Camry (based on Carwow’s test which seemed like forever). My Macan S does 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds or less and it weighs over 4,000 lbs. It makes no sense to have the Emira be slower despite more power and weighs a lot less. #mindboggling

I was thinking the same thing as I drove my mAcan s today. Less power, more weight and a better 0-60?

I’m hoping the Speedo was just slow to update on that clip like it was when braking. I’ll wait for the “specialist timing gear” to confirm

 

[Evotion]

not a downgrade in performance from the previous gen.

Ahhhh. THAT is exactly the problem in the logic here.

Firstly, the performance is absolutely fine, you will love it and likely never get near the top performance level.

Secondly, forget this idea of 'downgrade'. I know what people mean but this is a new car. Plus, the higher performance Lotus are much compromised and actually more money!!

This is a common misconception. People are not thinking about the Emira as a car in isolation.
Don't fret about the early reviews.

Case in point. My old Golf R had 310HP and was heavier. Was a bloody rapid car with excellent roadholding. Didn't need more power. People are getting hung up on 'it should have this or that'.

We are so spoilt.
Lotus have given us a UK built car that looks utterly amazing for less than £80K with power that is still great for a road car.

 

[Evotion]

I was thinking the same thing as I drove my mAcan s today. Less power, more weight and a better 0-60?

DCT makes a H U G E difference.

Like for like.. of course more power-to-weight will win.
Let's wait until the full beans car is out and a pro smashes the gears through for that over-quoted 0-60 time. We may be very surprised.

If the 30-60 and 40 -80 times are crap then I will then start panicking

 

[Pegasi]

I am relatively new to the forum but been watching from afar (placed deposit April 2022, not due to lack of interest sooner), but wanted to get some feedback from others. It seems like there have been a lot of individually small compromises that have come out with the Emira over time that alone are not easy to write off, but together are substantial. 400 instead of 416 horsepower, probably negligible to even an above average driver. 6800 vs 7000 rpm redline, probably not a huge deal. Slightly softened steering feel, still very good. A bit heavier than most Lotus cars, the price you pay for more comforts. Exhaust sound slightly muted, due to environmental regulations. Acceleration times exhibited have been underwhelming, but the car isn't about that. Final iteration of seats could be a bit lower, but still a decent position. Etc.

I know that this customer base is kind of a wide one (I see some who have 3 supercars in the garage considering an Emira as a weekend toy, and some who this is their first and possibly only time purchasing a vehicle like this). I personally have worked extremely hard to get to this point, to the tune of my engineering career + 3 part time jobs, pumping out regular 115 hour weeks with a diet of rice and tuna for a few years to pay off my family/student debt in the dream of being able to afford an analogue, driver-focused, manual, mid-engined sports car. Now more than ever, options are limited for all of us on that front. What drew me to Lotus in the first place was the driving experience, and the reliability of the 2GR-FE. What drew me to the Emira was the promise of a "dialed-up" Lotus with better quality and looks.

At what point do the little things that are no big deal add up, and detract from the experience? In making this a better all-rounder, has it just become slightly worse than competitors except for looks? The argument for Lotus over Porsche had always been a more raw experience, worth sacrificing Porsche quality and comforts for. Now most of the reviews say it is still not quite as high quality or comfortable as the Porsche, but the performance is slightly muted in comparison to previous Lotus cars, as well.

Any honest advice would be great. Anything from "listen, you are never going to be close to good enough to even use 60% of the car's potential so don't worry about the upper bounds of performance" to "sounds like you should shut up and get a used Evora GT if you are that concerned." Genuinely want to know where other peoples' heads are and what level of compromise you are all willing to accept. This potential purchase is a massive goal I have been working toward, so 'try again next time' is not really an option, like it may be for a few fortunate others.

I didn't really know if you came to a conclusion. When people make posts like this I always ask the same question. If not the Emira, what are the next three or four cars you want? I wanted a mid-engined two seat sports car. And I wanted my own spec. Therefore C8, GT4, Emira. There aren't a lot of choices in my price range and the Emira is my first choice by a mile, or kilometer if you are in the UK.

 

[SmallerBaller]

I didn't really know if you came to a conclusion. When people make posts like this I always ask the same question. If not the Emira, what are the next three or four cars you want? I wanted a mid-engined two seat sports car. And I wanted my own spec. Therefore C8, GT4, Emira. There aren't a lot of choices in my price range and the Emira is my first choice by a mile, or kilometer if you are in the UK.

My strongest options are, in general order: Emira, used Evora GT, 718 GTS, and manual Supra. Also have considered and ruled out Atom, C8, Z, and 718 GT4. Was also advised to consider and test drive some in the 981 line. My biggest criteria is analogue driver experience, so obviously handling feel and manual transmission are large components in that.

My general conclusion is that I will probably stick with the Emira, most definitely until test drives this Autumn, to make a choice. I think I would be more will to accept this car if it wasn't hyped up to be something it is not, but with current prices for a second-hand Evora GT, I am almost better off just getting an Emira, especially if these new 430 Cup rumors circling around end up being true and this is only produced with v6 manual until 2025ish (obviously not basing a decision on this, as it is pure speculation right now).

I think Emira is still at the top of my list, but not nearly by as far as it once was, so who knows... another 'minor' botch as people start taking delivery and I may just grab a used Evora GT. Expectations have definitely taken a hit, but options are very limited nowadays.

 

[DaaS]

Grab an Evora, preferably from the dealer you’d get the Emira from, and enjoy it while you get way more time and information regarding the Emira.

#ForTheGapFiller

I went that route and now I don’t want to sell the Evora.

 

[TXEMIRA]

I went that route and now I don’t want to sell the Evora.

Ditto. It’s going to hurt.

 

[Hedge]

I’ve shared those concerns too. However…

I didn’t even sit in a Lotus until 6 years ago because of the old rumours about reliability. Since then I have bought 4 and will always have a Lotus as long as I can afford one! An Exige 350, 2 Elise’s (a new one and now I’ve bought a 23 year old Elise with 118hp!) and now the Emira. They’ve all been bullet proof.

I’ve had a couple of 911s and some much more exotic and much faster ‘supercars’ too.

The 911s were awesome because they did everything - including have 2 usable rear seats (for while the kids were small - upto about age 8).

None of them match any of the Lotus’ I’ve had for real world driving enjoyment at road speeds and on track. I just love the ‘bolt action rifle’ feel of the gear shift, for example. Getting it ‘right’ isn’t hard and it’s something I really enjoy the feel of. If you’re going for lap times, maybe this isn’t the car for you. But still, I’m sure it’ll be very quick and great fun.

Oh and kids turn their heads or shout to their parents when they see the Lotuses. Not that it’s important to me, but just shows how special a Lotus is. Even in its home market in the U.K.

Please do test drive an Evora as well. You might find that is the car for you. I don’t believe it’s any compromise on ease of getting in/out and, as with all cars (except the most exotic), the dashboard entertainment and SatNav systems will just age anyway. Also, some have rear seats which may make a big difference to you. It would for me, if my kids were still little.

Do also test drive the Emira. As much as I have questioned some of the choices they made on the FE car, I have no doubts it will be a massively enjoyable car to drive.

The other thing the Lotus has over Porsche - true in the U.K. at least - is servicing costs. That Toyota sourced engine and gearbox does bring a LOT of benefits and confidence.

In the US I’m not sure how close folks will be to dealers if there are other issues though. The only issues any friends had were minor cosmetic/ electrical and didn’t stop them driving the car. But that’s same for both Emira and Evora.

Try whatever Porsches you can afford too. Do consider servicing costs too, as well as reliability, if you go for an older car. They’re not as bullet proof as maybe their reputation goes. Not just engines, but other components.

Apart from rear seats and the points you already made, the Evora has weight on its side vs the Emira. It’s only 50-70kg, but one of the revelations of Lotus ownership is how well things like brakes and tyres last. It’ll be more marginal for the Evora than say and Exige or Elise, but everything helps especially if you’re going to do the occasional track day.

I’m sure the Emira IS a great drivers car and arguably the most beautiful Lotus ever made.

Also, I could easily accuse myself of splitting hairs by comparing it against the best all round driving experience I’ve ever had!

Try them all. Go with what you love, you’ve worked hard for it.

 

[emiraspain]

Wow... a lot of advice and a lot of worry and a lot of work! Well done.... but I echo that, all work and no xxxxx... never a good idea, I dont care what anyone says.
A few points, it seems you have not driven an evora or any lotus come to that? so I cant see why the fact that the Emira has less HP than a car you have not driven would worry you, it really shouldnt and you cant read too much into the Evora drivers opinions "yet" as they have not driven the Emira either, apart from Harry and other reviewers, and none of them said it was slower to me recollection... so get that one out of your head. It has 400HP ..ish and thats it and in theory thats enough. In practice, as everyone has said, test drive it and you will know.
Another point, which you slightly raised but is quite evident, most people on here have had or do have several other cars, cars far superior to the Emira, WAY WAY superior, and although they are complaining and xxtching like old women (myself included) they are STILL here. So either they have no life, or they really want this damn car. That should tell you something too.
Finally, every car out there, the same as every country and person out there, comes with good and bad (in my case pretty much all good....yep I really cant think of the bad, maybe the punctuation and length of posts, but even that can be good). Looking at every car is a different experience, the way it makes you feel, whether it makes you want to keep looking at it, turn around and see it again each time you see it, or not. Sitting in every car makes you feel a certain way, comfy, quality, poised, or just plain uncomfortable as too many people are looking at you thinking what a so and so you must be, in my case obviously not the case. Finally, every car makes you feel something when you drive it, again from comfort, to exhilaration in some cases, from fear to back ache in others, but the real feeling you want when you come to the end of the journey, is to not come to the end of that journey! (quite romantic no?)
I agree, you should test drive, but I will also tell you that you should not expect the test drive to make your mind up, a 20 mins drive with a dealer guy next to you, obeying speed limits etc, it will give you an idea, but I have had a few and made decisions based on them, which can often be wrong, but yes you need to do it.
Final point, yes I realise I said finally before this point, there is no perfect car. A ferrari is great, but people generally hate you for driving it, a porsche is fantastic, gt4, 911, but certainly in the UK, you get the same disgust from passers by all the way back from the yuppies of the 80's, keying such cars. You should not look for a car that will give you everything as neither you nor I can give everything to anyone we are with and we can in theory adapt our "suspension, responsiveness, speed etc" more than any car can. However, one of these cars will make you feel a bit more alive from its overall package..... for me, the Emira would "seem" as if it does that more than the others.
Final, final, ultimate point, it doesnt matter! If you get the Emira, or GTS, each of them and I would say Emira more so, it will currently hold its value as all used cars do, especially in the US, so if you dont like it, you sell it and move on as most people on here will do with any car they buy.
Hence, dont stress it.. get it, try it..... love it, great, dont love it, sell it and move onto something else.

 

[TomE]

Wow... a lot of advice and a lot of worry and a lot of work! Well done.... but I echo that, all work and no xxxxx... never a good idea, I dont care what anyone says.
A few points, it seems you have not driven an evora or any lotus come to that? so I cant see why the fact that the Emira has less HP than a car you have not driven would worry you, it really shouldnt and you cant read too much into the Evora drivers opinions "yet" as they have not driven the Emira either, apart from Harry and other reviewers, and none of them said it was slower to me recollection... so get that one out of your head. It has 400HP ..ish and thats it and in theory thats enough. In practice, as everyone has said, test drive it and you will know.
Another point, which you slightly raised but is quite evident, most people on here have had or do have several other cars, cars far superior to the Emira, WAY WAY superior, and although they are complaining and xxtching like old women (myself included) they are STILL here. So either they have no life, or they really want this damn car. That should tell you something too.
Finally, every car out there, the same as every country and person out there, comes with good and bad (in my case pretty much all good....yep I really cant think of the bad, maybe the punctuation and length of posts, but even that can be good). Looking at every car is a different experience, the way it makes you feel, whether it makes you want to keep looking at it, turn around and see it again each time you see it, or not. Sitting in every car makes you feel a certain way, comfy, quality, poised, or just plain uncomfortable as too many people are looking at you thinking what a so and so you must be, in my case obviously not the case. Finally, every car makes you feel something when you drive it, again from comfort, to exhilaration in some cases, from fear to back ache in others, but the real feeling you want when you come to the end of the journey, is to not come to the end of that journey! (quite romantic no?)
I agree, you should test drive, but I will also tell you that you should not expect the test drive to make your mind up, a 20 mins drive with a dealer guy next to you, obeying speed limits etc, it will give you an idea, but I have had a few and made decisions based on them, which can often be wrong, but yes you need to do it.
Final point, yes I realise I said finally before this point, there is no perfect car. A ferrari is great, but people generally hate you for driving it, a porsche is fantastic, gt4, 911, but certainly in the UK, you get the same disgust from passers by all the way back from the yuppies of the 80's, keying such cars. You should not look for a car that will give you everything as neither you nor I can give everything to anyone we are with and we can in theory adapt our "suspension, responsiveness, speed etc" more than any car can. However, one of these cars will make you feel a bit more alive from its overall package..... for me, the Emira would "seem" as if it does that more than the others.
Final, final, ultimate point, it doesnt matter! If you get the Emira, or GTS, each of them and I would say Emira more so, it will currently hold its value as all used cars do, especially in the US, so if you dont like it, you sell it and move on as most people on here will do with any car they buy.
Hence, dont stress it.. get it, try it..... love it, great, dont love it, sell it and move onto something else.

How many times can you fit "finally" into one post?

 

[emiraspain]

How many times can you fit "finally" into one post?

at the end of the day, the last word, when you break everything down.... its hard work to think of alternatives sometimes haha.

https://www.youtube.com/user/DrPittenstein

is this guy on here? I used to like watching his videos when I considered buying an Exige, which I didnt do as its just a bit ugly and mismatchy, but I am guessing he may be getting an Emira, but I maybe wrong.....

 

[TomE]

at the end of the day, the last word, when you break everything down.... its hard work to think of alternatives sometimes haha.

https://www.youtube.com/user/DrPittenstein

is this guy on here? I used to like watching his videos when I considered buying an Exige, which I didnt do as its just a bit ugly and mismatchy, but I am guessing he may be getting an Emira, but I maybe wrong.....

It was your first "finally" only a third of the way into your post that made me laugh the most