Does 2.0 has 400 HP ?

[Matt]

I am curious about the actural horsepower of 2.0 EMIRA. LOTUS claimed that FE will have 400HP. Is it 400HP on wheels? Also, why some manufacturers overstate the horsepower? For instance, MY GT86 only has 135HP on wheels, but TOYOTA declared it would have 200HP when it was released. Another example is the opposite, TOYOTA claimed A90 SUPRA would have 340HP, and it acturally has 365HP on wheels ! I am so fonfused!

 

[Leonard]

So you’re calling out this reputable tuner that’s super lol

Seen plenty of dynos over read over the years. To be honest I'm thinking they are confusing wheel bhp with fly!
"Dyno Tested: 2021 Toyota Supra Appears More Powerful Than 382-HP Rating" https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32461333/2021-toyota-supra-dyno-tested/
But fair enough above seems to collaborate. So willstand corrected til I drive one

 

[lion shf]

Seen plenty of dynos over read over the years. To be honest I'm thinking they are confusing wheel bhp with fly!
"Dyno Tested: 2021 Toyota Supra Appears More Powerful Than 382-HP Rating" https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32461333/2021-toyota-supra-dyno-tested/
But fair enough above seems to collaborate. So willstand corrected til I drive one

and this is what we do til we get our cars right Dude?
please enjoy my Halloween Walter while we wait

 

[Leonard]

and this is what we do til we get our cars right Dude?
please enjoy my Halloween Walter while we wait

Don't make me pull out my pumpkin rocket launcher

 

[lion shf]

Don't make me pull out my pumpkin rocket launcher

I’m def staying with you next time I’m in London

 

[VL3X]

The Chinese lotus website has listed 400 HP for the I4. Might be region specific, but it does leave one to wonder.

I did hear about this, but thought the Emira was being made as a ROW car. So if the JDM/China Emira has 400HP out of the AMG could there be chance that the 2GR V6 could actually have 416HP in America with Euro versions only having the stated 400HP?

 

[Nova]

I did hear about this, but thought the Emira was being made as a ROW car. So if the JDM Emira has 400HP out of the AMG could there be chance that the 2GR V6 could actually have 416HP in America with Euro versions only having the stated 400HP?

Lotus doesn't have a history of underrating its engines, so I think they'll just let us know whatever it is. There'll be a lot of mixed feelings if Lotus releases more potent versions of the engines in some places of the world. They can blame emissions, but that won't prevent people from feeling some kind of way.

 

[VL3X]

Lotus doesn't have a history of underrating its engines, so I think they'll just let us know whatever it is. There'll be a lot of mixed feelings if Lotus releases more potent versions of the engines in some places of the world. They can blame emissions, but that won't prevent people from feeling some kind of way.

But isn't that exactly what they're doing with the AMG FE in China? It's not a matter of under or overrating. I'm talking the actual advertised power numbers are drastically different between 360HP ROW 2.0T Emira and China's 400HP.

 

[kitkat]

Seen plenty of dynos over read over the years. To be honest I'm thinking they are confusing wheel bhp with fly!
"Dyno Tested: 2021 Toyota Supra Appears More Powerful Than 382-HP Rating" https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32461333/2021-toyota-supra-dyno-tested/
But fair enough above seems to collaborate. So willstand corrected til I drive one

Nope, they're just really dynoing whp which can obviously vary a bit depending on conditions and the dyno type and correction factor depending on the underlying fundamentals of how the dyno works. I don't want to get argumentative about your F87 M2C experience -- but those really are dynoing at 400 wheel hp.

 

[kitkat]

But isn't that exactly what they're doing with the AMG FE in China? It's not a matter of under or overrating. I'm talking the actual advertised power numbers are drastically different between 360HP ROW 2.0T Emira and China's 400HP.

I would not be surprised if the Chinese AMG Emira and the rest of the world AMG Emira had completely different tunes for different power outputs.

 

[duff]

Nope, they're just really dynoing whp which can obviously vary a bit depending on conditions and the dyno type and correction factor depending on the underlying fundamentals of how the dyno works. I don't want to get argumentative about your F87 M2C experience -- but those really are dynoing at 400 wheel hp.

You will find that US WHP readings from dynos are always much higher (~20%) than those from a UK/euro dyno.
This is across the board and not related to a under rating by a specific manufacturer/vehicle/engine or the general lack of controlled conditions at a test facilities.
I am not sure why but I doubt very much that all US cars have ~20% more power. A UK dyno tends to show the 'corrected' @ the fly HP on dyno graphs which is much closed to the US WHP values - for example stock M2C is 405-425 @ the the Fly and 340-355 @ the wheels according a UK dyno.
Hence why those on this side of the pond show some disbelief at the numbers being stated for WHP when assuming the values are directly comparable.

 

[digilotus]

The standard I4 FE will have 360HP + 430Nm torque with 4.2s 0-100km/h. The Chinese market I4 FE will have 400HP with 480Nm torque. Why this is nobody knows. 0-100km/h is also unknown but likely under 4 seconds.

 

[Leonard]

The standard I4 FE will have 360HP + 430Nm torque with 4.2s 0-100km/h. The Chinese market I4 FE will have 400HP with 480Nm torque. Why this is nobody knows. 0-100km/h is also unknown but likely under 4 seconds.

If this is 100% the case it bodes well for an easy and reliable stage 1 tune

 

[Matthaus]

If this is 100% the case it bodes well for an easy and reliable stage 1 tune

I'd take that option in the UK if it preserved the warranty, there should be no reason they couldn't offer this

 

[Leonard]

I'd take that option in the UK if it preserved the warranty, there should be no reason they couldn't offer this

I feel a Litchfield Stage 2 450bhp and Stage 3 500bhp on the horizon also... i4 is tempting for sure

 

[Nova]

But isn't that exactly what they're doing with the AMG FE in China? It's not a matter of under or overrating. I'm talking the actual advertised power numbers are drastically different between 360HP ROW 2.0T Emira and China's 400HP.

Oh, my point is that the engines in China, or some other parts of the world, will indeed be 400HP as advertised. They are not going to have the same actual HP output and just label them differently, with one being underrated. It's *very* easy to detune a M139, as I'm sure everyone is aware by now. All you have to do is decrease the max boost as the RPM rises.

 

[Nova]

You will find that US WHP readings from dynos are always much higher (~20%) than those from a UK/euro dyno.
This is across the board and not related to a under rating by a specific manufacturer/vehicle/engine or the general lack of controlled conditions at a test facilities.
I am not sure why but I doubt very much that all US cars have ~20% more power. A UK dyno tends to show the 'corrected' @ the fly HP on dyno graphs which is much closed to the US WHP values - for example stock M2C is 405-425 @ the the Fly and 340-355 @ the wheels according a UK dyno.
Hence why those on this side of the pond show some disbelief at the numbers being stated for WHP when assuming the values are directly comparable.

You guys are talking past each other because you are talking about different phenomena. You seem to be making a point about crank-vs-wheel HP, and the post you are replying to is indicating that *some* manufacturers are known to underrate the power output of certain models, as confirmed by dyno pulls. Both are true.

 

[Lotustoronto]

The standard I4 FE will have 360HP + 430Nm torque with 4.2s 0-100km/h. The Chinese market I4 FE will have 400HP with 480Nm torque. Why this is nobody knows. 0-100km/h is also unknown but likely under 4 seconds.

So they are selling i4 @ 400 HP AND V6 @ 400 HP for 35% more in china? Strange...

 

[lynchy73]

So they are selling i4 @ 400 HP AND V6 @ 400 HP for 35% more in china? Strange...

Yes, that’s right, except it’s about 30% more expensive for the V6 (limited colours, MT only, DC, black pack, tinted, alcantara with yellow stitch) versus I4 (any option you want). The appeal in China for the I4 is the relatively good value for something that looks this exotic (400hp, 480Nm on the China spec I4 also sounds pretty sweet). An extra 30% price hike for the V6 somewhat dents the appeal of this bargain exotic.

The V6 in China was never offered until a few weeks ago (there was never a hint it would be offered either) when they stopped offering the I4 FE (no more orders being taken for I4 FE) and pushed I4 deliveries back 6-9 months plus. Now you can all of a sudden book a V6 MT FE with deliveries supposedly starting late 22. All a bit strange.

We’re all supposed to be getting a drive in a V6 AT on a track in September. Although thinking back they didn’t mention which September….

 

[hagen111]

Almost all manufacturers quote flywheel bhp not at the wheel.
Both the GT86 and Supra higher bhp figures are flywheel

Plus the question: does it run thin oil, is the chamber pressurized, do you such on the exhaust...

Then on rolling road you DON'T MEASURE BHP. You GESTIMATE some form of power and actually it is only useful to measure improvements made under same conditions and/or to compare different cars on the same day, same conditions. But even tire compound and tire pressure may result in a difference...