Emira in Los Angeles!

[VL3X]

I respect your opinion. I just am not feeling so generous. It’s been more than 4 months since the roll out and we still lack an actual car to see in the flesh. When we see the prototype it is done in such a poor way through dealers and fundamental info for decision making is missing or contradictory. And here’s a good one for you….I’m an early deposit holder and I won’t actually be able to see even the prototypes in the flesh because they are not coming to my dealer and showings at other dealers is by invitation only for those who placed their deposits at those dealerships. How exactly is it that I should feel satisfied with how I’m being treated as a customer? I think 4 months is long enough for lotus to have made some overture to buyers like me. I’m not alone. At some point we have to expec more or we will continue to have a substandard experience. I’m glad you feel good about your experience though. I wish I could feel that way too.

At least we aren't the Euro guys who had to spec and order without seeing painted shells yet.

I was looking forward to driving 4 hrs round-trip to see the Emira in person but now I realize it's the Shadow Grey base model and apparently my dealer is the final stop on the roadshow. It's not RSVP only and during the day from 10am-3pm.. So I'm assuming it isn't a special catered reveal like everyone else got. Maybe I'll just save my fuel and time and stay home.

 

[cdn_alien]

I’m with Mike-Engel on this one. It’s been four years since Lotus was taken over by Geely, presumably with lots of new money to support the new models. But what kind of road tour is it that won’t allow the car to show up at all the dealers (however few there are), or not to invite those with $2,500 deposits to see the car? Heck, they didn’t even provide a list of time, date, and locations for the tour for those of us without a Lotus dealer in our state. They can’t use shortage of funding as an excuse anymore, so it is that Lotus really doesn’t care about their customer base?

 

[EM33RA]

I’m with Mike-Engel on this one. It’s been four years since Lotus was taken over by Geely, presumably with lots of new money to support the new models. But what kind of road tour is it that won’t allow the car to show up at all the dealers (however few there are), or not to invite those with $2,500 deposits to see the car? Heck, they didn’t even provide a list of time, date, and locations for the tour for those of us without a Lotus dealer in our state. They can’t use shortage of funding as an excuse anymore, so it is that Lotus really doesn’t care about their customer base?

In Australia no colour samples at all. We haven’t seen a single thing but have had to lock in engine, drivetrain tour or sport, plus wheels which can’t be changed at all now (this was done end October). We have also placed a non refundable deposit. So if we don’t like it bad luck. So always could be worse guys think of that.

For me it’s a non issue I want the car and all the short falls are what they are, I can’t change anything so I don’t even bother calling my dealer.

Lotus have been taken by storm in how much interest/deposits they’ve received, and moving every peace of a new puzzle hasn’t been easy in the Covid world we live in now. They are a small time manufacturer trying or wanting to run before they’ve even learned how to walk genuinely. For me, I think the car looks absolutely stunning and I want it that simple don’t care .

 

[TXEMIRA]

I’m with Mike-Engel on this one. It’s been four years since Lotus was taken over by Geely, presumably with lots of new money to support the new models. But what kind of road tour is it that won’t allow the car to show up at all the dealers (however few there are), or not to invite those with $2,500 deposits to see the car? Heck, they didn’t even provide a list of time, date, and locations for the tour for those of us without a Lotus dealer in our state. They can’t use shortage of funding as an excuse anymore, so it is that Lotus really doesn’t care about their customer base?

Agreed.
I think we all want the car so that’s that BUT poor communication is no excuse.
One intern could have this fixed.

Simple communication would be amazing right now. How it all works…

 

[Matt]

I respect your opinion. I just am not feeling so generous. It’s been more than 4 months since the roll out and we still lack an actual car to see in the flesh. When we see the prototype it is done in such a poor way through dealers and fundamental info for decision making is missing or contradictory. And here’s a good one for you….I’m an early deposit holder and I won’t actually be able to see even the prototypes in the flesh because they are not coming to my dealer and showings at other dealers is by invitation only for those who placed their deposits at those dealerships. How exactly is it that I should feel satisfied with how I’m being treated as a customer? I think 4 months is long enough for lotus to have made some overture to buyers like me. I’m not alone. At some point we have to expec more or we will continue to have a substandard experience. I’m glad you feel good about your experience though. I wish I could feel that way too.

Maybe LOTUS is short of capacity, Emira procudtion line is a new platform.

 

[Eagle7]

Possible explanations:
With the holidays coming up, Lotus may have wanted some time for their employees to be home with their families instead of on a non-stop world tour.

Travel difficulties due to the bio-weapon, err, vaccine mandate(s) that are making things more difficult than they otherwise would be. With the massive shortage of truck drivers this has caused in the U.S. (around 70,000 according to reports), there may have been logistics challenges getting the car shipped by truck to various places.

Cost; though they do have more money than before, they don't have an unlimited budget and may have had to make decisions on where and when to take the car as a result. The United States is physically a much bigger country than the U.K., so time and time to travel distances in the U.S. are a much different proposition.

Scott Walker's statement about them being overwhelmed wasn't an exaggeration; he was telling the truth. How many people does Lotus have available that can travel and be away from home for a month? How many car manufacturers have their CEO, Chief of Design, and Head of Performance Development out traveling with a demo/display car on tour? Obviously all of this IS important to them, but this is the first time they've ever experienced anything like this, and they're going through the adjustments overnight fame and fortune brings.


Those are just a few that come to mind. I get that everyone would like everything to be perfect, and from the grandstands, it looks like some things should be so simple and easy, but in reality, they aren't. There's always a lot more going on behind the scenes that you don't know about, because they ARE behind the scenes. Give them some time to adjust; I think we'll be getting more of what we want in the next 90 days or so. If that's just not something you can abide by, then by all means withdraw your deposit and either wait for a later time to buy, or buy something else that suits you better. Bad-mouthing the company isn't going to make anything better for anyone. Lotus isn't Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, etc. and they're not going to be able to provide you with that kind of customer experience, at least not at this time. If you're not okay with that, then the launch experience of getting one of these cars is probably not going to meet your expectations; that's just the way it is right now. If you understand all that and can hang in there through the process, you'll be getting your hands on what may be the finest sports car Lotus has ever produced.

 

[Matt]

Possible explanations:
With the holidays coming up, Lotus may have wanted some time for their employees to be home with their families instead of on a non-stop world tour.

Travel difficulties due to the bio-weapon, err, vaccine mandate(s) that are making things more difficult than they otherwise would be. With the massive shortage of truck drivers this has caused in the U.S. (around 70,000 according to reports), there may have been logistics challenges getting the car shipped by truck to various places.

Cost; though they do have more money than before, they don't have an unlimited budget and may have had to make decisions on where and when to take the car as a result. The United States is physically a much bigger country than the U.K., so time and time to travel distances in the U.S. are a much different proposition.

Scott Walker's statement about them being overwhelmed wasn't an exaggeration; he was telling the truth. How many people does Lotus have available that can travel and be away from home for a month? How many car manufacturers have their CEO, Chief of Design, and Head of Performance Development out traveling with a demo/display car on tour? Obviously all of this IS important to them, but this is the first time they've ever experienced anything like this, and they're going through the adjustments overnight fame and fortune brings.


Those are just a few that come to mind. I get that everyone would like everything to be perfect, and from the grandstands, it looks like some things should be so simple and easy, but in reality, they aren't. There's always a lot more going on behind the scenes that you don't know about, because they ARE behind the scenes. Give them some time to adjust; I think we'll be getting more of what we want in the next 90 days or so. If that's just not something you can abide by, then by all means withdraw your deposit and either wait for a later time to buy, or buy something else that suits you better. Bad-mouthing the company isn't going to make anything better for anyone. Lotus isn't Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, etc. and they're not going to be able to provide you with that kind of customer experience, at least not at this time. If you're not okay with that, then the launch experience of getting one of these cars is probably not going to meet your expectations; that's just the way it is right now. If you understand all that and can hang in there through the process, you'll be getting your hands on what may be the finest sports car Lotus has ever produced.

Thanks for your long analysis. I think you summarized most difficulties in front of LOTUS.
By the way, LOTUS compared himself to Porshe in the advertising campaign, no wonder people spontaneously compare LOTUS to Porshe !

 

[Eagle7]

Thanks for your long analysis. I think you summarized most difficulties in front of LOTUS.
By the way, LOTUS compared himself to Porshe in the advertising campaign, no wonder people spontaneously compare LOTUS to Porshe !

Well the car itself may compete, but Lotus the company just doesn't. They're not in that league; yet. They want to be, and in time I'm sure they'll get a lot better, but right now they thought they were going to gradually wade into the water, but instead got hit with the undertow and now they're out to sea and having to swim frantically. They'll make it, but they're all probably exhausted right now, and it's only the beginning. They're not brawling in the pub anymore; welcome to the coliseum.

 

[cdn_alien]

Eagle7 - you make some very good points. Lotus brought their CEO, head of design and their Type 72 F1 car to the US shortly after the Elise came out, and that’s exactly why I love the brand. May be that’s a “mom and pop” thing that Lotus can no longer afford to do as demand increases. And that would be very sad. I would like to see Lotus become successful and profitable, but not necessarily turn into Porsche or Ferrari.

 

[Magma]

Can someone explain to me why the overwhelming interest and flood of deposits is an excuse for how Lotus is rolling out the Emira?
Are you saying that when they first revealed the Emira at Goodwood that they had no intention of even doing a US tour. That it was all put together last minute due to the huge US demand?

The lack of communication and changes in spec and timeline has changed because so many people want it? If they already had a set number they wanted to or were able to produce when they first planned this car, why try to change that for the FE? Why not stick to their original plan (they did have one right?), their original allotment number for each country (they've always called this a world car) so that they can handle it better.

People who want the car can wait, plain and simple. The cars where people who did get an initial allocation, but changed their minds, can go to the dealer's lot for sale where the dealer can call the next person on the list. Why are we all waiting to see if we even get an FE when Lotus can't even tell anyone know how many cars they're going to send?

Why scramble to try to meet demand? How about concentrate on what you can do with what you have, make a quality product and make people wait if need be. If they do this, and the car is everything they say it will be, the demand will be there. Don't over promise and under deliver.

 

[Eagle7]

Can someone explain to me why the overwhelming interest and flood of deposits is an excuse for how Lotus is rolling out the Emira?
Are you saying that when they first revealed the Emira at Goodwood that they had no intention of even doing a US tour. That it was all put together last minute due to the huge US demand?

The lack of communication and changes in spec and timeline has changed because so many people want it? If they already had a set number they wanted to or were able to produce when they first planned this car, why try to change that for the FE? Why not stick to their original plan (they did have one right?), their original allotment number for each country (they've always called this a world car) so that they can handle it better.

People who want the car can wait, plain and simple. The cars where people who did get an initial allocation, but changed their minds, can go to the dealer's lot for sale where the dealer can call the next person on the list. Why are we all waiting to see if we even get an FE when Lotus can't even tell anyone know how many cars they're going to send?

Why scramble to try to meet demand? How about concentrate on what you can do with what you have, make a quality product and make people wait if need be. If they do this, and the car is everything they say it will be, the demand will be there. Don't over promise and under deliver.

If they DIDN'T have the overwhelming interest and flood of deposits, would the way they're rolling out the Emira be an issue? It's only an "issue" because a record number of people want it now, and they're not used to dealing with a small company like Lotus.

When they first revealed the Emira at Goodwood, they probably were planning to show it in the U.S., but what they were not expecting was the staggering level of demand that occurred at that show just in the U.K.. About 500 deposits a day for 5 days? They were used to producing around 1,600 cars a year spread across 3 models, for the entire world. The U.K. reaction caught them completely by surprise, and that was just the beginning. Dealing with a global pandemic and its after-effects weren't part of the original plans and projections either. Every automobile manufacturer is dealing with this right now.

The lack of communication and changes in spec are not unusual for a pre-production prototype where it always says "specifications and features subject to change without notice." That covers the "changes" and "lack of communication" part. It is probably due to the fact that so many DO want it, that they're now being extremely careful about what they say. They're not used to being in the hotspot center of the spotlight, where every single thing is scrutinized and either praised or damned as some kind of subterfuge. In that kind of spotlight, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. In that environment, "don't" is the lesser of two evils.

You have no idea how difficult things are for manufacturers right now, for anybody, not just Lotus. Everybody is struggling with supply lines, parts, time lines and pricing. Trying to forecast through all this has to be a complete nightmare. Go ahead and try and order a new car from anybody right now, it's a mess all across the industry.

They want to meet demand IF they can meet demand, and they're trying to see if they can. If they can't, they'll stick to their original plan of one shift producing cars for one year. That would be about 5,000 cars at the most with their new facility. If they simply fed China the 2,000 cars they want, and the rest of the production run to the over 3,000 deposits they already have for the U.K., then nobody else in the world would get a single car. You think they want that? THAT would be an absolute disaster, and they know it. Although they CAN add a 2nd or 3rd shift, that's not the same as actually doing it. It's a huge amount of work and logistics both for parts and labor. They're not promising that though, which is why all we're getting is the original forecast of one production shift run right now. If they're getting this kind static now, you can imagine what would happen if they did say "Yeah, we're going to produce 10,000 cars next year" and then find out they can't. They're not stupid. They're wisely being cautious and taking it one step at a time.

They're going to do as fair a job as they can to allocate cars around the world, assuming they're only able to run one production shift, but I have no doubt they're doing everything they can right now to see if they can increase production, albeit without compromising quality.

A little understanding and patience on our part is going to be rewarded with a great car, it's going to take longer than we'd like, but that's just the way it is right now.

 

[Pegasi]

There are five types of adopters for new products. If you put a deposit down on a FE you are an innovator or at worst you are an early adopter. Not trying to lecture anyone but there is always a risk to being an early consumer of any product. If you want something first there is risk. For me, bonded aluminum chassis not new, Toyota V6 not new, AMG I4 not new is good enough. I am actually savoring the wait for the car. Being on this forum, being a car enthusiast, and waiting for the Emira is very cool IMO.

 

[Pegasi]

I really don't care what Lotus is doing. I can't afford a GT4, I don't want a C8, I have considered an Evora because I think they are very cool, but I trust Lotus will build the car and get it to me as fast as they can.

 

[VL3X]

A little understanding and patience on our part is going to be rewarded with a great car, it's going to take longer than we'd like, but that's just the way it is right now.

Sure, but if we're going to patiently wait 6-9 months past initial projected "Spring 2022" deliveries, we should be rewarded with a complete car with all colors, ADAS, and TDC stripe. The fact that Lotus is slowly removing options and features isn't necessarily instilling confidence in the deposit holders. It'd be a slap in the face if FE buyers get locked in to their orders, just to have additional colors and more features added before we even take delivery!

 

[Eagle7]

"Subject to change without notice" can go both ways. Maybe they'll be able to include ADAS and/or the TDC stripe after all, if the production process to get everything up to speed takes longer than initially expected. I honestly don't think they'll change the color options for the FE though. Metallics are usually the premium option that you have to pay extra for, which is why I'm assuming they're including them in the FE bundle.

We also may not have to wait 6-9 months past the initial projection either. Sometimes things can go better too. Once they get the production line humming and see how many they can actually consistently produce, and if they can realistically get a second production shift going, things can improve. Nobody knows yet. Even they don't. This is a pioneer effort as it were, so as long as you understand that and set your expectations accordingly, you shouldn't be upset if things go differently than originally planned.

This is actually an historic moment if you look at it properly. You are now part of an historic change in Lotus, and what looks like is going to be the most successful car in the history of the company. Not only that, but it's the last ICE car; an iconic moment in the history of the automobile, not just Lotus. It's not unlike the driving of the golden spike in 1869 at Promontory Point in Utah, when the last rails were laid down to connect the east coast with the west coast by rail. This dramatically changed the country and travel in general. It was a sea change, and we're not only witnessing another transportation sea change in our time, we're in line to be a part of it. Both a witness and a participant.

Years from now, you can tell your grandkids what it was like to be a part of this. Do you want to say "Yep, I knew it was gonna be great the moment I saw it, and got in on it as quick as I could. There were some struggles, but this car is going to be yours one day. The last of an era". Or do you want to have to say "Yep I thought it might be something good, but I bitched and complained the whole way. Eventually I got a car, but boy was I unhappy that they didn't do everything the way I thought they should, when I thought they should!"

 

[Magma]

These cars aren't conceptualized and built over one year, we all know it happens over several years. It includes forethought and planning. Covid happened in 2020. Nearly 2 years ago at this point. It's not new anymore... If they had already planned on 5000 cars worldwide, then they should already have the resources lined up to fill those 5000 orders, right? I really don't know how it works.. Just asking.

And I don't feel like most people are bitching about this. But many are frustrated.

 

[VL3X]

"Subject to change without notice" can go both ways. Maybe they'll be able to include ADAS and/or the TDC stripe after all, if the production process to get everything up to speed takes longer than initially expected. I honestly don't think they'll change the color options for the FE though. Metallics are usually the premium option that you have to pay extra for, which is why I'm assuming they're including them in the FE bundle.

We also may not have to wait 6-9 months past the initial projection either. Sometimes things can go better too. Once they get the production line humming and see how many they can actually consistently produce, and if they can realistically get a second production shift going, things can improve. Nobody knows yet. Even they don't. This is a pioneer effort as it were, so as long as you understand that and set your expectations accordingly, you shouldn't be upset if things go differently than originally planned.

This is actually an historic moment if you look at it properly. You are now part of an historic change in Lotus, and what looks like is going to be the most successful car in the history of the company. Not only that, but it's the last ICE car; an iconic moment in the history of the automobile, not just Lotus. It's not unlike the driving of the golden spike in 1869 at Promontory Point in Utah, when the last rails were laid down to connect the east coast with the west coast by rail. This dramatically changed the country and travel in general. It was a sea change, and we're not only witnessing another transportation sea change in our time, we're in line to be a part of it. Both a witness and a participant.

Years from now, you can tell your grandkids what it was like to be a part of this. Do you want to say "Yep, I knew it was gonna be great the moment I saw it, and got in on it as quick as I could. There were some struggles, but this car is going to be yours one day. The last of an era". Or do you want to have to say "Yep I thought it might be something good, but I bitched and complained the whole way. Eventually I got a car, but boy was I unhappy that they didn't do everything the way I thought they should, when I thought they should!"

Ha, well put. I guess these past couple years have made me quite the pessimist, but you're right. Things can go better than expected and I hope that they do for Lotus and for us early Emira guys!

 

[JPS_67]

Is the demo car I4 or V6?

the shadow grey demo car as shown has a v6 toyota engine.

 

[Eagle7]

These cars aren't conceptualized and built over one year, we all know it happens over several years. It includes forethought and planning. Covid happened in 2020. Nearly 2 years ago at this point. It's not new anymore... If they had already planned on 5000 cars worldwide, then they should already have the resources lined up to fill those 5000 orders, right? I really don't know how it works.. Just asking.

And I don't feel like most people are bitching about this. But many are frustrated.

Um no, the effects of Covid were very much being felt just one year ago, and the after-effects of authoritarian vax mandates are still interfering with business and the economy. It's largely what's driving shortages and inflation.

I don't know what they were planning for initial production, other than they've said they could produce up to 5,000 cars a year with their new production facility. I can't imagine they expected they were going to get the response they have, and pre-ordered enough to produce 3 times more cars than they ever had before. They obviously already had suppliers lined up and made commitments to purchase a certain amount, but the suppliers have to be given lead times too so they can start planning to be able to deliver in time for production. Their planning includes the same things as Lotus; materials, components, labor, production capacity, etc. If there are any glitches anywhere in that chain, it immediately ripples all the way down the line. For example if A company is delaying supplying B company so B company can't meet their deadlines, then everybody else down the line that was relying on timely delivery from B company is now behind schedule, and so on.

Whatever Lotus had planned originally, you can be sure it didn't account for what they now need to produce, so every supplier is now reevaluating what they can do, and how soon. Lotus needs ALL of them to come through if they've asked for more than their original order. If the supplier making the steering wheels was expecting to make 3,000 and planned for that amount, but Lotus has now asked "Can you supply us with 10,000?" They may have said "Yes but we won't be able to do the custom TDC stripe in the timeline you've asked for." That's the point where a company has to decide to either accept that compromise, or delay delivery. That's just one example of the process and decision that has to be made for EVERY SINGLE ITEM they need in order to produce a complete car. That's a lot of phone calls and negotiation.

If a critical supplier says "yes, but it's going to take us another month or two than we originally said in order to deliver that many" then that's where delivery times get pushed because there really isn't any choice.

If you've never worked in the manufacturing side of things, it's hard to imagine just how hectic and stressful it can be. The more complicated the product, the more things that can go wrong and hold up assembly. You can be sure no one is more frustrated than the people at Lotus right now. They would LOVE for everything to go silky smooth, but that just about never happens in the real world. I believe they're doing their best right now, and we just have to be patient while they work through all the things they need to do to get our cars built and shipped to us.

 

[Tonyshepp]

Um no, the effects of Covid were very much being felt just one year ago, and the after-effects of authoritarian vax mandates are still interfering with business and the economy. It's largely what's driving shortages and inflation.

I don't know what they were planning for initial production, other than they've said they could produce up to 5,000 cars a year with their new production facility. I can't imagine they expected they were going to get the response they have, and pre-ordered enough to produce 3 times more cars than they ever had before. They obviously already had suppliers lined up and made commitments to purchase a certain amount, but the suppliers have to be given lead times too so they can start planning to be able to deliver in time for production. Their planning includes the same things as Lotus; materials, components, labor, production capacity, etc. If there are any glitches anywhere in that chain, it immediately ripples all the way down the line. For example if A company is delaying supplying B company so B company can't meet their deadlines, then everybody else down the line that was relying on timely delivery from B company is now behind schedule, and so on.

Whatever Lotus had planned originally, you can be sure it didn't account for what they now need to produce, so every supplier is now reevaluating what they can do, and how soon. Lotus needs ALL of them to come through if they've asked for more than their original order. If the supplier making the steering wheels was expecting to make 3,000 and planned for that amount, but Lotus has now asked "Can you supply us with 10,000?" They may have said "Yes but we won't be able to do the custom TDC stripe in the timeline you've asked for." That's the point where a company has to decide to either accept that compromise, or delay delivery. That's just one example of the process and decision that has to be made for EVERY SINGLE ITEM they need in order to produce a complete car. That's a lot of phone calls and negotiation.

If a critical supplier says "yes, but it's going to take us another month or two than we originally said in order to deliver that many" then that's where delivery times get pushed because there really isn't any choice.

If you've never worked in the manufacturing side of things, it's hard to imagine just how hectic and stressful it can be. The more complicated the product, the more things that can go wrong and hold up assembly. You can be sure no one is more frustrated than the people at Lotus right now. They would LOVE for everything to go silky smooth, but that just about never happens in the real world. I believe they're doing their best right now, and we just have to be patient while they work through all the things they need to do to get our cars built and shipped to us.

This, and remember like the steering wheel example, the company producing the wheel have their own suppliers , e.g leather or Alcantara fabric for the wheel. There’s a six month delay in Europe for fabrics and leather.
I don’t believe they’d prioritise all orders in the UK before America, America is the largest sports car market and then the UK.
The problem with shipping outside of the UK is the cargo vessels to transport the cars aren’t available.

It just shows how the world economies are so interconnected and fragile.