Emiras advertised for sale on other sites

[Lotustoronto]

but if you are not talking about used cars, which I dont think is fair to talk about although more than fair to buy, what else thats not a 911 T looks anywhere near as good and is as exclusive as the Emira for this money?
Serious cars? To me a macl or ferr are serious cars, a BMW is not.... I dont think there is a pure sports car, ie not a modified family type regular run of the mill car for anywhere near this price....is there? New...

The problem is not that the Emira isn't special, or sought after. It's that the days of driving a car for free and flipping it out after 6-12 months for what you paid for it are over. The world, especially in Europe had near zero interest rates for over a decade, this goes before COVID. Everything has changed and it's never going back to what it once was. We are entering a different time. I think within 12-14 months there will be multiple Emira's on dealer lots searching for an owner. Not just the Emira but 911/GT4/Spyder will be in the same boat. Outside of the more exclusive offerings from Ferrari and the like. People are starting to realize this, and are adjusting their spending / savings accordingly. The real hard assets are not going to be getting any cheaper from here. (housing, minerals, gas, energy etc.) Auto manufacturers realize this as well and will have to pivot in certain ways to stay relevant.

Most of the people paying above MSRP and huge markups are usually not the long term car collector like a Harry. It's the crypto millionaire guy, or someone that is keeping up with the Joneses. Yes, sometimes it's the impatient one that is willing to pay up the extra cash instead of waiting. The Harry's of the world / car guys that own multiple cars know better and get access to cars from their relationships with dealers. That's why they have 5 or 6 cars and yes usually a Ferrari is one of them. The one's I have met, generally don't pay over MSRP. Even for the numbered 911 cars. (unless it's a very special collectors piece I.e. Speedster or 911R)

The problem comes when there is more flippers than buyers, or when Lotus gets to a point where a build can be ordered and delivered within 6-10 weeks. We are not there yet of course, but once Lotus get's 1,000 Emira's delivered I think we will see well over 100 of them for sale.(UK/EU) Which should be right around April/May. I may be wrong, but every indicator is pointing towards this.

Lotus I am sure is aware of this and how detrimental it may be to their business. I would not be surprised if the very slow roll out in the UK/EU has a bit to do with this. (besides the obvious supply chain stuff from this year) Supply more ROW to spread out the chance of any one market being saturated. Ferrari certainly does.

 

[emiraspain]

The problem is not that the Emira isn't special, or sought after. It's that the days of driving a car for free and flipping it out after 6-12 months for what you paid for it are over. The world, especially in Europe had near zero interest rates for over a decade, this goes before COVID. Everything has changed and it's never going back to what it once was. We are entering a different time. I think within 12-14 months there will be multiple Emira's on dealer lots searching for an owner. Not just the Emira but 911/GT4/Spyder will be in the same boat. Outside of the more exclusive offerings from Ferrari and the like. People are starting to realize this, and are adjusting their spending / savings accordingly. The real hard assets are not going to be getting any cheaper from here. (housing, minerals, gas, energy etc.) Auto manufacturers realize this as well and will have to pivot in certain ways to stay relevant.

Most of the people paying above MSRP and huge markups are usually not the long term car collector like a Harry. It's the crypto millionaire guy, or someone that is keeping up with the Joneses. Yes, sometimes it's the impatient one that is willing to pay up the extra cash instead of waiting. The Harry's of the world / car guys that own multiple cars know better and get access to cars from their relationships with dealers. That's why they have 5 or 6 cars and yes usually a Ferrari is one of them. The one's I have met, generally don't pay over MSRP. Even for the numbered 911 cars. (unless it's a very special collectors piece I.e. Speedster or 911R)

The problem comes when there is more flippers than buyers, or when Lotus gets to a point where a build can be ordered and delivered within 6-10 weeks. We are not there yet of course, but once Lotus get's 1,000 Emira's delivered I think we will see well over 100 of them for sale.(UK/EU) Which should be right around April/May. I may be wrong, but every indicator is pointing towards this.

Lotus I am sure is aware of this and how detrimental it may be to their business. I would not be surprised if the very slow roll out in the UK/EU has a bit to do with this. (besides the obvious supply chain stuff from this year) Supply more ROW to spread out the chance of any one market being saturated. Ferrari certainly does.

NICE paragraph use and plenty of parenthesis too, what more could a man want?

I agree with virtually nothing, I mean everything you said. We are forgetting once more this car is NOT a 105k car, its a 65k car with a load of crappy extras that we are being screwed for as we WANT THE CAR NOW.... many of the Emira buyers would never pay 105k for this car and in fact they could not really afford to! They wont even pay 85k!!! We are mostly FE people on here, but FE people will in the end NOT be the main stay of Lotus, it will be base model customers spending at best 70k, hence again, the 105k is not relevant to them, or to Lotus. Then there is the image the car gives off....what is says about you to many... a Lotus driver is a very different image to the 105k used cars image.... which ever car that is. Lotus is... passable...not too pretentious as other marques are and not everyone wants pretentious...(sometimes I do, sometimes I dont.)

Yes, when there are 1000 Emiras in the UK *June maybe, there will be a fair % for sale used, maybe NOT 10% I think. We already have 2 for sale. The sale of one was always a plan it seems and the second out of pure disappointment in quality /performance, which is an embarrassment to Lotus and their QC, something I have mentioned from the start, feeling that they would not get it right despite 100Million, as it still comes down to humans in the end, and I feel in some positions there at Lotus, they have the wrong humans / training / pride / worth ethic /communication skills or whatever we want to call it, without getting in there to see it for ourselves. There is no way I would let a car leave my station with a rubber strip incorrectly pinned, there is no way working in the QC bay once the car is finished that this would get passed me, there is no way at Oxford this would not be highlighted, and YET all of this seems to have happened. In fact, as a dealer, there is no way I would not spot it and highlight it to lotus at once and to the customer!

You can say no big deal but IMO, its a HUGE deal!! It says everything about the company. Wow, people say, they have amazing engineers... do they??? What is new and unique about this car???? Wow they have a great designer..... well he also did the Evora, and at the risk of upsetting some, it was from certain angles, NOT a nice looking car at all and lets face it, if it were, it would have sold in decent numbers!! Great drivers car, great sound, "decent" quality interior...for 2010..or at least forgivable if the design was great...so no it wasnt. The interior of the Emira is NOT porsche standard, it simply isn't, the screens quality, placement, design, functionality, but we are still here as it IS a great looking car.... Great customer care and after sales??? We know thats not true in any way shape or form!
In fact the QC and quality of components (bits to us laymen) will severely damage the future values of these cars, just as it has for Jaguar, Landrover, Rover, BL and virtually every mass produced UK car ever made and that is the real embarrassment and yes I have owned them and yes I have had friends and family members working in said companies (midlands based of course (west)) and I have seen what its like, and its NOT Germany or Japan. Yes it can change, but in the same way that corruption in Africa and South America can be reduced, its easy isn't it????? Its generations Im afraid....and all this plays into my head with this purchase... no not the corruption so much, but the QC and future values. Am I over reacting, lets see in 3 months if people are still finding niggles, I will be amazed if they dont. Will we put up with them, 80% of us will yes, but that does not make it right... and we will suffer for it as values will fall like a parachute thats not open.

you can stop reading now.... Ive said my peace..
I have already stated that a little down the road this car will be like the Alpine, some people will love it, but they wont pay over the odds for it and in fact it will depreciate as much as most cars, as its simply not a Halo car, maybe for Lotus, but not for the motor world in general. It is NOT the car most of us hoped for, but it is NOT a bad car either. The GT456 version of it may win the journalists over and improve the public perception of its capabilities in general, which I dont think are going to be any different to a sporty BMW at the moment.
Point to note, when talking about Harry and people like him, that wont pay over MRP as they are rich and car collectors and intelligent, all I can say is Yaris GR and he did pay over the MRP as everyone did who wanted that car, as journo's LOVED it (to all those that think the journos opinions dont matter for future values) and did not join the queue in time. As @AudR8 has said, supply and demand is a simple fact which mean EVERYONE will have to pay over the MRP for a while for this car, simple as that. The only question is for how long will this last...
The length of time this occurs for and the amount does indeed depend on factors like interest rates, economy, but also on perceptions from the media, customers and also Quality....
All this however, is irrelevant for the first 10-20 cars... where the only factors are how good it looks, how long the waiting list is and how bad people feel the car is, and even this ultimate factor does NOT matter too much if it looks great, 10-20 people out of 1000 will buy the car as it looks great...

thats my Sunday morning....discharge.. it was a lot longer before I edited it, so be grateful for that..

 

[Mctaff]

You must need a lie down after letting that one rip?!

I’d say there will always be some for whom desire outweighs sense and they have deep pockets. Agree you need a special kind of someone to pick the lotus but they will be there, just perhaps not in large numbers.

Oh…. Penalty points for overuse of bold I’m afraid!

 

[Leonard]

NICE paragraph use and plenty of parenthesis too, what more could a man want?

I agree with virtually nothing, I mean everything you said. We are forgetting once more this car is NOT a 105k car, its a 65k car with a load of crappy extras that we are being screwed for as we WANT THE CAR NOW.... many of the Emira buyers would never pay 105k for this car and in fact they could not really afford to! They wont even pay 85k!!! We are mostly FE people on here, but FE people will in the end NOT be the main stay of Lotus, it will be base model customers spending at best 70k, hence again, the 105k is not relevant to them, or to Lotus. Then there is the image the car gives off....what is says about you to many... a Lotus driver is a very different image to the 105k used cars image.... which ever car that is. Lotus is... passable...not too pretentious as other marques are and not everyone wants pretentious...(sometimes I do, sometimes I dont.)

Yes, when there are 1000 Emiras in the UK *June maybe, there will be a fair % for sale used, maybe NOT 10% I think. We already have 2 for sale. The sale of one was always a plan it seems and the second out of pure disappointment in quality /performance, which is an embarrassment to Lotus and their QC, something I have mentioned from the start, feeling that they would not get it right despite 100Million, as it still comes down to humans in the end, and I feel in some positions there at Lotus, they have the wrong humans / training / pride / worth ethic /communication skills or whatever we want to call it, without getting in there to see it for ourselves. There is no way I would let a car leave my station with a rubber strip incorrectly pinned, there is no way working in the QC bay once the car is finished that this would get passed me, there is no way at Oxford this would not be highlighted, and YET all of this seems to have happened. In fact, as a dealer, there is no way I would not spot it and highlight it to lotus at once and to the customer!

You can say no big deal but IMO, its a HUGE deal!! It says everything about the company. Wow, people say, they have amazing engineers... do they??? What is new and unique about this car???? Wow they have a great designer..... well he also did the Evora, and at the risk of upsetting some, it was from certain angles, NOT a nice looking car at all and lets face it, if it were, it would have sold in decent numbers!! Great drivers car, great sound, "decent" quality interior...for 2010..or at least forgivable if the design was great...so no it wasnt. The interior of the Emira is NOT porsche standard, it simply isn't, the screens quality, placement, design, functionality, but we are still here as it IS a great looking car.... Great customer care and after sales??? We know thats not true in any way shape or form!
In fact the QC and quality of components (bits to us laymen) will severely damage the future values of these cars, just as it has for Jaguar, Landrover, Rover, BL and virtually every mass produced UK car ever made and that is the real embarrassment and yes I have owned them and yes I have had friends and family members working in said companies (midlands based of course (west)) and I have seen what its like, and its NOT Germany or Japan. Yes it can change, but in the same way that corruption in Africa and South America can be reduced, its easy isn't it????? Its generations Im afraid....and all this plays into my head with this purchase... no not the corruption so much, but the QC and future values. Am I over reacting, lets see in 3 months if people are still finding niggles, I will be amazed if they dont. Will we put up with them, 80% of us will yes, but that does not make it right... and we will suffer for it as values will fall like a parachute thats not open.

you can stop reading now.... Ive said my peace..
I have already stated that a little down the road this car will be like the Alpine, some people will love it, but they wont pay over the odds for it and in fact it will depreciate as much as most cars, as its simply not a Halo car, maybe for Lotus, but not for the motor world in general. It is NOT the car most of us hoped for, but it is NOT a bad car either. The GT456 version of it may win the journalists over and improve the public perception of its capabilities in general, which I dont think are going to be any different to a sporty BMW at the moment.
Point to note, when talking about Harry and people like him, that wont pay over MRP as they are rich and car collectors and intelligent, all I can say is Yaris GR and he did pay over the MRP as everyone did who wanted that car, as journo's LOVED it (to all those that think the journos opinions dont matter for future values) and did not join the queue in time. As @AudR8 has said, supply and demand is a simple fact which mean EVERYONE will have to pay over the MRP for a while for this car, simple as that. The only question is for how long will this last...
The length of time this occurs for and the amount does indeed depend on factors like interest rates, economy, but also on perceptions from the media, customers and also Quality....
All this however, is irrelevant for the first 10-20 cars... where the only factors are how good it looks, how long the waiting list is and how bad people feel the car is, and even this ultimate factor does NOT matter too much if it looks great, 10-20 people out of 1000 will buy the car as it looks great...

thats my Sunday morning....discharge.. it was a lot longer before I edited it, so be grateful for that..

Certainly your longest diatribe to date.
Definitely contradicted your earlier posts about values and demand
Yet I agree with everything you said

 

[Leonard]

You must need a lie down after letting that one rip?!

I’d say there will always be some for whom desire outweighs sense and they have deep pockets. Agree you need a special kind of someone to pick the lotus but they will be there, just perhaps not in large numbers.

Oh…. Penalty points for overuse of bold I’m afraid!

And Peace not Piece unless intentional

 

[Forlorn]

NICE paragraph use and plenty of parenthesis too, what more could a man want?

I agree with virtually nothing, I mean everything you said. We are forgetting once more this car is NOT a 105k car, its a 65k car with a load of crappy extras that we are being screwed for as we WANT THE CAR NOW.... many of the Emira buyers would never pay 105k for this car and in fact they could not really afford to! They wont even pay 85k!!! We are mostly FE people on here, but FE people will in the end NOT be the main stay of Lotus, it will be base model customers spending at best 70k, hence again, the 105k is not relevant to them, or to Lotus. Then there is the image the car gives off....what is says about you to many... a Lotus driver is a very different image to the 105k used cars image.... which ever car that is. Lotus is... passable...not too pretentious as other marques are and not everyone wants pretentious...(sometimes I do, sometimes I dont.)

Yes, when there are 1000 Emiras in the UK *June maybe, there will be a fair % for sale used, maybe NOT 10% I think. We already have 2 for sale. The sale of one was always a plan it seems and the second out of pure disappointment in quality /performance, which is an embarrassment to Lotus and their QC, something I have mentioned from the start, feeling that they would not get it right despite 100Million, as it still comes down to humans in the end, and I feel in some positions there at Lotus, they have the wrong humans / training / pride / worth ethic /communication skills or whatever we want to call it, without getting in there to see it for ourselves. There is no way I would let a car leave my station with a rubber strip incorrectly pinned, there is no way working in the QC bay once the car is finished that this would get passed me, there is no way at Oxford this would not be highlighted, and YET all of this seems to have happened. In fact, as a dealer, there is no way I would not spot it and highlight it to lotus at once and to the customer!

You can say no big deal but IMO, its a HUGE deal!! It says everything about the company. Wow, people say, they have amazing engineers... do they??? What is new and unique about this car???? Wow they have a great designer..... well he also did the Evora, and at the risk of upsetting some, it was from certain angles, NOT a nice looking car at all and lets face it, if it were, it would have sold in decent numbers!! Great drivers car, great sound, "decent" quality interior...for 2010..or at least forgivable if the design was great...so no it wasnt. The interior of the Emira is NOT porsche standard, it simply isn't, the screens quality, placement, design, functionality, but we are still here as it IS a great looking car.... Great customer care and after sales??? We know thats not true in any way shape or form!
In fact the QC and quality of components (bits to us laymen) will severely damage the future values of these cars, just as it has for Jaguar, Landrover, Rover, BL and virtually every mass produced UK car ever made and that is the real embarrassment and yes I have owned them and yes I have had friends and family members working in said companies (midlands based of course (west)) and I have seen what its like, and its NOT Germany or Japan. Yes it can change, but in the same way that corruption in Africa and South America can be reduced, its easy isn't it????? Its generations Im afraid....and all this plays into my head with this purchase... no not the corruption so much, but the QC and future values. Am I over reacting, lets see in 3 months if people are still finding niggles, I will be amazed if they dont. Will we put up with them, 80% of us will yes, but that does not make it right... and we will suffer for it as values will fall like a parachute thats not open.

you can stop reading now.... Ive said my peace..
I have already stated that a little down the road this car will be like the Alpine, some people will love it, but they wont pay over the odds for it and in fact it will depreciate as much as most cars, as its simply not a Halo car, maybe for Lotus, but not for the motor world in general. It is NOT the car most of us hoped for, but it is NOT a bad car either. The GT456 version of it may win the journalists over and improve the public perception of its capabilities in general, which I dont think are going to be any different to a sporty BMW at the moment.
Point to note, when talking about Harry and people like him, that wont pay over MRP as they are rich and car collectors and intelligent, all I can say is Yaris GR and he did pay over the MRP as everyone did who wanted that car, as journo's LOVED it (to all those that think the journos opinions dont matter for future values) and did not join the queue in time. As @AudR8 has said, supply and demand is a simple fact which mean EVERYONE will have to pay over the MRP for a while for this car, simple as that. The only question is for how long will this last...
The length of time this occurs for and the amount does indeed depend on factors like interest rates, economy, but also on perceptions from the media, customers and also Quality....
All this however, is irrelevant for the first 10-20 cars... where the only factors are how good it looks, how long the waiting list is and how bad people feel the car is, and even this ultimate factor does NOT matter too much if it looks great, 10-20 people out of 1000 will buy the car as it looks great...

thats my Sunday morning....discharge.. it was a lot longer before I edited it, so be grateful for that..

What a great tirade for a Sunday morning, excellent and totally agree. Apart from the fact that I don’t think Russel Carr designed this car it was apparently Danial Durant and a colleague I cannot remember did interior. Russel probably had sign off.

Going on to QC - I remember at Aston Martin when Andy Palmer was in charge, he supposedly put the white gloves on and inspected the cars coming off the line, before attaching a signed plate for sign off. I wonder how many he did and for how long?

But, the QC procedure is so important, window seal leaks, trim - rattles are not good, let alone the iffy issue of gearbox noise on some cars - the extent of which will be unknown until pick up. That’s the worrying issue.

Drop my car off outside the house and start my own check. I think that’s not a good thought. This should not happen.

If you pick up at Factory - do a shakedown run and check it. As you drive away at the gate speed bump it rattles. That’s not a good look is it, or bad luck?

Now you can look forward to your Sunday Lunch - hope you get Roast Beef and Yorkshire puddings.

 

[emiraspain]

You must need a lie down after letting that one rip?!

I’d say there will always be some for whom desire outweighs sense and they have deep pockets. Agree you need a special kind of someone to pick the lotus but they will be there, just perhaps not in large numbers.

Oh…. Penalty points for overuse of bold I’m afraid!

NO WAY. oh ok then

 

[Tonyshepp]

Didn't Henry Catchpole on the Emira review say they used to be a time when. Lotus would say it's good enough when the carpet didn't meet up properly and such. Looks like those times haven't changed. It's not as though they have been rushing these cars out of the door.

 

[emiraspain]

What a great tirade for a Sunday morning, excellent and totally agree. Apart from the fact that I don’t think Russel Carr designed this car it was apparently Danial Durant and a colleague I cannot remember did interior. Russel probably had sign off.

Going on to QC - I remember at Aston Martin when Andy Palmer was in charge, he supposedly put the white gloves on and inspected the cars coming off the line, before attaching a signed plate for sign off. I wonder how many he did and for how long?

But, the QC procedure is so important, window seal leaks, trim - rattles are not good, let alone the iffy issue of gearbox noise on some cars - the extent of which will be unknown until pick up. That’s the worrying issue.

Drop my car off outside the house and start my own check. I think that’s not a good thought. This should not happen.

If you pick up at Factory - do a shakedown run and check it. As you drive away at the gate speed bump it rattles. That’s not a good look is it, or bad luck?

Now you can look forward to your Sunday Lunch - hope you get Roast Beef and Yorkshire puddings.

no sunday lunch today that was a one off over here...english woman up the road did it for a group of neighbours (we are the only 2 english)... today was fish and rice and vegg 5 mins job.... followed by chocolate biscuits and mandarins....

 

[emiraspain]

Didn't Henry Catchpole on the Emira review say they used to be a time when. Lotus would say it's good enough when the carpet didn't meet up properly and such. Looks like those times haven't changed. It's not as though they have been rushing these cars out of the door.

yeh... its not like they couldnt practise a bit haha.
its just incredible..and Im sure its not the same on every car, so far not many EU car owners have mentioned it, but then again, not many of them have said anything at all!...thanks to those that have .

 

[emiraspain]

Defo
Certainly your longest diatribe to date.
Definitely contradicted your earlier posts about values and demand
Yet I agree with everything you said

Did I....
contradict myself..I dont usually do that...or do I?
Ive always maintained the early cars will sell for a decent mark up..and long term less... its that in between bit we cant be sure about, with so many factors...% rates as you say, but now we are seeing. patterns in quality.... well. Its still too early to judge I guess, but I simply would not accept a car thats not 99.9% perfect and I would be bloody annoyed if the dealer made me go there to get it without checking it. Ive got better things to do, well actually I dont, but I can make some up.....

 

[emiraspain]

And Peace not Piece unless intentional

hh dear, what a school boy error... in my head Im sure I typed it correctly, but the forum and no one on it lies.. haha.
Piece... indeed... terrible, thats worse than Lotus's QC errors... I will banish myself for a few moments, while I play with my energetic dogs..

 

[Lotustoronto]

NICE paragraph use and plenty of parenthesis too, what more could a man want?

I agree with virtually nothing, I mean everything you said. We are forgetting once more this car is NOT a 105k car, its a 65k car with a load of crappy extras that we are being screwed for as we WANT THE CAR NOW.... many of the Emira buyers would never pay 105k for this car and in fact they could not really afford to! They wont even pay 85k!!! We are mostly FE people on here, but FE people will in the end NOT be the main stay of Lotus, it will be base model customers spending at best 70k, hence again, the 105k is not relevant to them, or to Lotus. Then there is the image the car gives off....what is says about you to many... a Lotus driver is a very different image to the 105k used cars image.... which ever car that is. Lotus is... passable...not too pretentious as other marques are and not everyone wants pretentious...(sometimes I do, sometimes I dont.)

Yes, when there are 1000 Emiras in the UK *June maybe, there will be a fair % for sale used, maybe NOT 10% I think. We already have 2 for sale. The sale of one was always a plan it seems and the second out of pure disappointment in quality /performance, which is an embarrassment to Lotus and their QC, something I have mentioned from the start, feeling that they would not get it right despite 100Million, as it still comes down to humans in the end, and I feel in some positions there at Lotus, they have the wrong humans / training / pride / worth ethic /communication skills or whatever we want to call it, without getting in there to see it for ourselves. There is no way I would let a car leave my station with a rubber strip incorrectly pinned, there is no way working in the QC bay once the car is finished that this would get passed me, there is no way at Oxford this would not be highlighted, and YET all of this seems to have happened. In fact, as a dealer, there is no way I would not spot it and highlight it to lotus at once and to the customer!

You can say no big deal but IMO, its a HUGE deal!! It says everything about the company. Wow, people say, they have amazing engineers... do they??? What is new and unique about this car???? Wow they have a great designer..... well he also did the Evora, and at the risk of upsetting some, it was from certain angles, NOT a nice looking car at all and lets face it, if it were, it would have sold in decent numbers!! Great drivers car, great sound, "decent" quality interior...for 2010..or at least forgivable if the design was great...so no it wasnt. The interior of the Emira is NOT porsche standard, it simply isn't, the screens quality, placement, design, functionality, but we are still here as it IS a great looking car.... Great customer care and after sales??? We know thats not true in any way shape or form!
In fact the QC and quality of components (bits to us laymen) will severely damage the future values of these cars, just as it has for Jaguar, Landrover, Rover, BL and virtually every mass produced UK car ever made and that is the real embarrassment and yes I have owned them and yes I have had friends and family members working in said companies (midlands based of course (west)) and I have seen what its like, and its NOT Germany or Japan. Yes it can change, but in the same way that corruption in Africa and South America can be reduced, its easy isn't it????? Its generations Im afraid....and all this plays into my head with this purchase... no not the corruption so much, but the QC and future values. Am I over reacting, lets see in 3 months if people are still finding niggles, I will be amazed if they dont. Will we put up with them, 80% of us will yes, but that does not make it right... and we will suffer for it as values will fall like a parachute thats not open.

you can stop reading now.... Ive said my peace..
I have already stated that a little down the road this car will be like the Alpine, some people will love it, but they wont pay over the odds for it and in fact it will depreciate as much as most cars, as its simply not a Halo car, maybe for Lotus, but not for the motor world in general. It is NOT the car most of us hoped for, but it is NOT a bad car either. The GT456 version of it may win the journalists over and improve the public perception of its capabilities in general, which I dont think are going to be any different to a sporty BMW at the moment.
Point to note, when talking about Harry and people like him, that wont pay over MRP as they are rich and car collectors and intelligent, all I can say is Yaris GR and he did pay over the MRP as everyone did who wanted that car, as journo's LOVED it (to all those that think the journos opinions dont matter for future values) and did not join the queue in time. As @AudR8 has said, supply and demand is a simple fact which mean EVERYONE will have to pay over the MRP for a while for this car, simple as that. The only question is for how long will this last...
The length of time this occurs for and the amount does indeed depend on factors like interest rates, economy, but also on perceptions from the media, customers and also Quality....
All this however, is irrelevant for the first 10-20 cars... where the only factors are how good it looks, how long the waiting list is and how bad people feel the car is, and even this ultimate factor does NOT matter too much if it looks great, 10-20 people out of 1000 will buy the car as it looks great...

thats my Sunday morning....discharge.. it was a lot longer before I edited it, so be grateful for that..

I rather enjoyed the rant. Well done.

I agree with what you said. However a few caveats - regarding Lotus and potential depreciation of their models.

Yes, I too find the Evora not a great looking car and for that reason may not be so sought after in the re-sale market in the future, despite being an excellent drivers car in it's day. The last if the Elise and Exige may be a different story. I do think these cars will appreciate as the years go by. Once the 15 and 25 year rule is up and these cars can be imported into the US/CAN market, you will see the values increase considerably. (sorry, not if the steering wheel is on the wrong side tho) I don't think there is another British car brand that can make a statement like that. (I am talking about cars built in 2010+, obviously James Bond Aston Martin is a prize or an e-type) Also excluding the hyper/super car category - yes a Mclaren Senna was/is an instant classic. Lotus for all their faults, really have built the last bunch of classic English ICE vehicles that are somewhat affordable. I have said it multiple times, I would purchase an Exige 380/430 over an Emira. That driving experience just can not be replicated, and as time goes on, driving one will be an experience.

QC - I will also agree with you. It will take a few years to sort out the manufacturing issues to become almost perfect. After Harry's video is when I realized how much of this car was hand built. It's probably better than the previous three E's, but those also had a lot more attention paid to them as the line moved significantly slower. Less employee's, less parts and 25 years experience putting them together. I unfortunately have to agree with your assessment on the manufacturing, it's not German and not even close to Japanese. (at least the power train is)

I don't think the Emira's will loose a ton of value, but this is not an above MSRP sports car by summer next year. ** unless Lotus can not break the 3-4K per year. If production stays bogged down, it may fetch higher numbers. But this isn't Ferrari or a 911 with a proven track record. It's an Emira and people will only wait for so long. Stuttgart is just waiting to take some Emira's customer back.

In Canada, there was 1,300 911's made for our market in 2021. Right now there is 90 of them back up for sale. In the winter. By spring there will be around 150+. Yes they are all above MSRP. I would expect my 10% prediction to be a little light for the Emira.

 

[emiraspain]

I rather enjoyed the rant. Well done.

I agree with what you said. However a few caveats - regarding Lotus and potential depreciation of their models.

Yes, I too find the Evora not a great looking car and for that reason may not be so sought after in the re-sale market in the future, despite being an excellent drivers car in it's day. The last if the Elise and Exige may be a different story. I do think these cars will appreciate as the years go by. Once the 15 and 25 year rule is up and these cars can be imported into the US/CAN market, you will see the values increase considerably. (sorry, not if the steering wheel is on the wrong side tho) I don't think there is another British car brand that can make a statement like that. (I am talking about cars built in 2010+, obviously James Bond Aston Martin is a prize or an e-type) Also excluding the hyper/super car category - yes a Mclaren Senna was/is an instant classic. Lotus for all their faults, really have built the last bunch of classic English ICE vehicles that are somewhat affordable. I have said it multiple times, I would purchase an Exige 380/430 over an Emira. That driving experience just can not be replicated, and as time goes on, driving one will be an experience.

QC - I will also agree with you. It will take a few years to sort out the manufacturing issues to become almost perfect. After Harry's video is when I realized how much of this car was hand built. It's probably better than the previous three E's, but those also had a lot more attention paid to them as the line moved significantly slower. Less employee's, less parts and 25 years experience putting them together. I unfortunately have to agree with your assessment on the manufacturing, it's not German and not even close to Japanese. (at least the power train is)

I don't think the Emira's will loose a ton of value, but this is not an above MSRP sports car by summer next year. ** unless Lotus can not break the 3-4K per year. If production stays bogged down, it may fetch higher numbers. But this isn't Ferrari or a 911 with a proven track record. It's an Emira and people will only wait for so long. Stuttgart is just waiting to take some Emira's customer back.

In Canada, there was 1,300 911's made for our market in 2021. Right now there is 90 of them back up for sale. In the winter. By spring there will be around 150+. Yes they are all above MSRP. I would expect my 10% prediction to be a little light for the Emira.

ohhh you were doing SOOOOOOO well until the last paragraph.... there "were" and now there "are" 90....
but an -A as its sunday and it was a good effort.

Yes if you cant rant on a sunday, on a forum, when can you? haha
I think I will get my email this week.... If I dont, then maybe I wont get my car in December... its already getting to the point of me pushing it into January, but with my ranting, maybe that will now be May be May...
Im starving and its not even 6pm, thats what you get for eating bloody fish!

 

[TomE]

I am not sure if the moderators / admins want a place for people to be able to sell their cars or not, but I think there should be (maybe there already is) a place for people who spot ads of Emiras for sale to be put here on the forum.

So far we have heard of an EU car up for sale and now a Hethel Yellow car at Central Lotus for sale, although its not on their website yet, but reportedly for sale at 105,000 pounds.

This thread is not intended as a debate for how much the cars should fetch, their depreciation etc, that already exists, it's just for advertisements of actual cars for sale when they appear to help those who may want to buy them / sell them and yes, to give us an idea how much they are going for.

IMO it can include forum members who want to sell their cars too, no matter what the feeling is on this, each to their own.

When posting an ad from another site, if you can also please briefly state the details, price, spec etc.

Above is the first post from this thread - unedited for the use of bold. Maybe re-read it.

A few forum members seem increasingly unable to keep on-topic in existing threads and don't start new threads for new topics.

In this thread the off-topic posts have resulted in several follow-on replies from other people and some valid commentary, so I'm reluctant to just delete the off topic posts. But now I have to work out which other thread to move these to, or create a new one. That's extra work for me, so other people can use this thread as originally intended. Moderating is currently taking me several hours a day.

@emiraspain could you please think about where and what you are posting and whether it is in line with the topic of thread. This thread is one you started and set guidelines for, but have now diverted.

 

[emiraspain]

Above is the first post from this thread - unedited for the use of bold. Maybe re-read it.

A few forum members seem increasingly unable to keep on-topic in existing threads and don't start new threads for new topics.

In this thread the off-topic posts have resulted in several follow-on replies from other people and some valid commentary, so I'm reluctant to just delete the off topic posts. But now I have to work out which other thread to move these to, or create a new one. That's extra work for me, so other people can use this thread as originally intended. Moderating is currently taking me several hours a day.

@emiraspain could you please think about where and what you are posting and whether it is in line with the topic of thread. This thread is one you started and set guidelines for, but have now diverted.

yes its hard to keep control.... must be the tyres and the greasy roads.
I forgot my own rules for the thread and reply to things I shouldn't......which then starts an avalanche

 

[TomE]

Thread temporarily locked while I sort out some cleaning up. I may not get it done tonight so please bear with me.

 

[mjw930]

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

Interesting, I wonder what Hethel thinks of this.

 

[Andrew]

These people should be banned for their future purchases.
(or at least put at the bottom of the list for future allocations)

 

[jimbobc]

I love that it said it was a change of circumstances. Surely then don’t take delivery of an £80k car?!