i4 power

kitkat · Mar 27, 2023

Magicman said:
It's only ½ tank of petrol lighter due to the heavier gear box.

Tbh though it's all becoming a mute point since I heard an i4 at Hethel

That bad huh?

Cutting42 · Mar 27, 2023

OK then, hands up who chose the i4 because of the way turbo 4's sound?

Magicman · Mar 27, 2023

kitkat said:
That bad huh?

It was on the test track so I guess there's a chance its not the finished article but wasn't good at all, just a strained 4cyl noise with a slight whumpf on gear shift.

kitkat · Mar 27, 2023

Magicman said:
It was on the test track so I guess there's a chance its not the finished article but wasn't good at all, just a strained 4cyl noise with a slight whumpf on gear shift.

Yeah the modern day emissions compliant turbo engines with DCTs just sound like gear shift farts, no matter how many cylinders they have -- it just sounds like a broken diesel.

VicVenlo · Mar 31, 2023

I scrolled through all the replies above but have not seen anyone mention a possible emission reason for the moderate HP output of the i4. More and more EU countries, and The Netherlands in particular, are taxing CO2. That is the reason why up to now perhaps only 3 or 4 V6 were sold in The Netherlands compared to at least 100 in Belgium where they don't tax CO2 on the selling price. The V6 LE in The Netherlands costs 150k+ against the identical car in Belgium and Germany of just below 100K..... The 50k+ is pure CO2 Tax in The Netherlands, so a lot of Dutch people are waiting for the i4. But its price has not yet been officially announced awaiting official EU homologation results that will determine the CO2 emission.

Fido · Mar 31, 2023

Website quotes 199g/km CO2 which should be WLTP figure that applies in the EU so you should be able to calculate the tax from that

kitkat · Mar 31, 2023

VicVenlo said:
I scrolled through all the replies above but have not seen anyone mention a possible emission reason for the moderate HP output of the i4. More and more EU countries, and The Netherlands in particular, are taxing CO2. That is the reason why up to now perhaps only 3 or 4 V6 were sold in The Netherlands compared to at least 100 in Belgium where they don't tax CO2 on the selling price. The V6 LE in The Netherlands costs 150k+ against the identical car in Belgium and Germany of just below 100K..... The 50k+ is pure CO2 Tax in The Netherlands, so a lot of Dutch people are waiting for the i4. But its price has not yet been officially announced awaiting official EU homologation results that will determine the CO2 emission.

The real reason is more likely based on price differentiation and an easy path for power increases for different trims.

kitkat · Mar 31, 2023

Fido said:
Website quotes 199g/km CO2 which should be WLTP figure that applies in the EU so you should be able to calculate the tax from that

Which is actually higher than the figures for the A45S.

Fido · Mar 31, 2023

kitkat said:
Which is actually higher than the figures for the A45S.

208g/km according to Mercedes, although I concede there’s not much in it.

kitkat · Mar 31, 2023

Fido said:
208g/km according to Mercedes, although I concede there’s not much in it.

Ah yes you’re right, had seen 188 for some reason.

Fido · Mar 31, 2023

I’d expect them to be similar, the Merc is a small car and only marginally heavier than the Emira, and although it’s output is greater, the WLTP test profile will reflect normal consumer usage which won’t include much full power Driving. Whilst there has been a lot of talk from Lotus about aerodynamic performance, this isn’t all about how slippery it is, much of the focus will have been generating downforce at medium and high speed to provide grip, traction and stability, this will all add drag. The Merc probably has some active aero that will be disabled for the WLTP test making its test numbers better.
Prior to the introduction of WLTP there were some very sharp practises employed in the industry. CO2 numbers and fuel economy were calculated from engine dynamometer data plus vehicle coast-down data that provided all of the rolling resistance and drag for the car. The coast-down tests however were conducted with a standard car that the engineers had a small window of time to prepare. So they had next to no fluids on board, tyres were bald and over inflated, ducts were blocked off, shut lines were taped over, aerials and aux drive belts removed, pretty much anything that could be done including levering the brake pads back to minimise any residual friction. No wonder people complained they couldn’t get within a country mile of the fuel consumption figures!

ADC · Mar 31, 2023

Fido said:
The Merc probably has some active aero

Is this true? I'd have expected this to be shouted from the rooftops if so... it feels highly unlikely at that price-point.

Fido said:
Prior to the introduction of WLTP there were some very sharp practises employed in the industry. CO2 numbers and fuel economy were calculated from engine dynamometer data plus vehicle coast-down data that provided all of the rolling resistance and drag for the car. The coast-down tests however were conducted with a standard car that the engineers had a small window of time to prepare. So they had next to no fluids on board, tyres were bald and over inflated, ducts were blocked off, shut lines were taped over, aerials and aux drive belts removed, pretty much anything that could be done including levering the brake pads back to minimise any residual friction. No wonder people complained they couldn’t get within a country mile of the fuel consumption figures!

I like to think I'm not completely naive to how the world works, but... wow. Sure, I expected that figures would be based on running with zero passenagers and minimal fuel on board, and maybe old low-resistance tyres, but the rest is just pure grift.

Anyway, I don't disagree they'll be similar on CO2, but I'm with @kitkat on this one... the power level of the Emira i4 at launch is ~~pure~~ 96% market segmentation IMO. The CO2-based tax will still be less than my current ride, so... yay, I guess.

VicVenlo · Apr 1, 2023

Fido said:
Website quotes 199g/km CO2 which should be WLTP figure that applies in the EU so you should be able to calculate the tax from that

WLTP is a standard used by the car manufacturers, not by governments to base their taxation on. A independent certified notified body like the RDW in The Netherlands (which by the way also approved the Elise in 1996 for Europe) is required to perform the EU homologation.

DeLongWay · Apr 1, 2023

krist said:
and 450, 500... this engine is insanely tunable

it is in the film above. I can bet you my last penny, the 360 is just a figure used to make enough difference between i4 and v6. If both were about 400, that would be confusing for the customers. And I can also bet the "cooling issues" is just a phrase used to somehow confirm that. With most cooling units at the front anyway, and additional space for coolers in the middle, where would that problems come from? Ferrari, McLaren have no problem cooling a much larger turbocharged v8s, so why cooling a small 4 cylinder engine would be an issue?

Agree after all the V6 depositors left the guy that flew in from Lotus Technical said the cooling issues was a bunch of nonsense and affirmed the i4 is the one to have

Concept24 · Apr 1, 2023

DeLongWay said:
Agree after all the V6 depositors left the guy that flew in from Lotus Technical said the cooling issues was a bunch of nonsense and affirmed the i4 is the one to have

Yes, if you're not concerned about reliability and smog laws........

Fido · Apr 2, 2023

VicVenlo said:
WLTP is a standard used by the car manufacturers, not by governments to base their taxation on. A independent certified notified body like the RDW in The Netherlands (which by the way also approved the Elise in 1996 for Europe) is required to perform the EU homologation.

Actually WLTP was created under the UN umbrella as a means of enabling government authorities to compare ‘apples with apples’. It is a standard imposed on manufacturers by their respective government agencies, (the VCA in the UK) so that it is possible to homologate to a common standard for fuel consumption and emissions. Governments absolutely will use WLTP performance data to base taxation levels on!

simonb · Apr 3, 2023

kitkat said:
Which is actually higher than the figures for the A45S.

Could this be the reason for the lower power (compared to the Merc) Lotus have targeted a sub 200g/Km figure

FederGigant · Apr 3, 2023

simonb said:
Could this be the reason for the lower power (compared to the Merc) Lotus have targeted a sub 200g/Km figure

It is NOT higher than the Merc, so no, probably not.

Fido · Apr 3, 2023

simonb said:
Could this be the reason for the lower power (compared to the Merc) Lotus have targeted a sub 200g/Km figure

Well it is conceivable although there isn’t a UK break point at <200 g/Km. There might be in other countries but I’m no longer up to date with the latest changes. In truth, I suspect it’s really just down to creating a large enough differential to the V6 to satisfy the marketeers.

Bilbao-Emira · Apr 3, 2023

Fido said:
Well it is conceivable although there isn’t a UK break point at <200 g/Km. There might be in other countries but I’m no longer up to date with the latest changes. In truth, I suspect it’s really just down to creating a large enough differential to the V6 to satisfy the marketeers.

The 200 g/Km, at least in Spain is for many a dealbreaker, 10% difference in tax compared to over 200