Initial Results after adding Tweeters

[crestima]

Hi folks,
@Chriscpm and I met this morning in Miami to share our Emira mod experiences and amongst others, we did a side-by-side comparison of our audio system's sound by playing the same two songs, "Another Brick in The Wall" (Part 1) and "Hotel California" in each of our cars. I have the OEM KEF system with no upgrades while his has the same OEM KEF, but with the added A-pilar Alpine tweeters he posted above. To ensure that we were comparing like-to-like, we set both audio systems to the same three equalizer settings and to the same volume level, We concluded that @Chriscpm's system does sound significantly better. I agree with his previously posted description that the Alpine tweeters provide a "surround sound" type of effect. This makes sense as the location of the tweeters in the A-pilar location seem to make the sound bounce around from the top of the dash and off the windshield towards the occupants. Coincidentally, the Alpine Tweeters did not eliminate the door mounted ones, rather just added to them, so it makes sense that he tapped in to the midrange wires. I'm no audiophile for sure, and @Chriscpm is far more technically knowledgeable about sound systems than I am, but this live comparison sufficed to convinced me to go ahead with the Alpine Tweeter mod as well. No question the KEF sound system could also benefit from a stronger Bass with addition of a quality sub-woofer, but, for me, adding the A-pillar tweeters will be enough. A special thanks to @Chriscpm for this experiment. Below are some pictures of our Emiras.

 

[Nova]

Can you ELI5? I’d like to consider doing this mod but don’t have a clue about what to do

Speaker drivers are designed to play specific frequency ranges. A 1" tweeter like the Alpine is *TYPICALLY* designed for playing frequencies above 2000-2500Hz. Say "tss" to yourself, that's the frequency it's designed to play.

The front speaker of the KEF contains both a midrange and a tweeter. So there are two sets of amplifier wires feeding it. If you tap the tweeter amplifier wires for the additional Alpine tweeter, you are probably good to go, since those amplifier wires is already sending tweeter-only signals. If you tap the midrange wires, then this would send midrange signals to the Alpine tweeter. This would be bad for the tweeter. Imagine driving the Emira with the stock suspension off road. I normally would say that this would sound terrible, as an Emira would also make a terrible off-road vehicle, but I don't want to get into back and forth about what sounds good or bad since everyone's preferences are different.

I wouldn't recommend it, but it's not my car, or my ears. So.

 

[crestima]

Speaker drivers are designed to play specific frequency ranges. A 1" tweeter like the Alpine is *TYPICALLY* designed for playing frequencies above 2000-2500Hz. Say "tss" to yourself, that's the frequency it's designed to play.

The front speaker of the KEF contains both a midrange and a tweeter. So there are two sets of amplifier wires feeding it. If you tap the tweeter amplifier wires for the additional Alpine tweeter, you are probably good to go, since those amplifier wires is already sending tweeter-only signals. If you tap the midrange wires, then this would send midrange signals to the Alpine tweeter. This would be bad for the tweeter. Imagine driving the Emira with the stock suspension off road. I normally would say that this would sound terrible, as an Emira would also make a terrible off-road vehicle, but I don't want to get into back and forth about what sounds good or bad since everyone's preferences are different.

I wouldn't recommend it, but it's not my car, or my ears. So.

Thanks for that feedback @Nova. When I receive my Alpine tweeters and have the required panels removed, it should be fairly easy for me to compare the output sound quality by tapping in to the wires feeding the OEM tweeters first, as you recommend, and then tapping in to the midrange wires, as @Chriscpm did, to determine which actually sounds best, at least to my ears. Again, I'm not an audio expert, by any stretch, but the one aspect that I'd like to preserve, which I already know works with @Chriscpm's method is for the OEM tweeters to continue to work in tandem with the Alpines (4 altogether). Do you believe this to be the case as well when I tap in to the Tweeter wires, or will one set disable the other somehow?
@Chriscpm was kind enough to provide me with the speaker wire color codes, which is very helpful and he'll likely be sharing that info here shortly if it was not already posted somewhere in the forum.

 

[Nova]

Thanks for that feedback @Nova. When I receive my Alpine tweeters and have the required panels removed, it should be fairly easy for me to compare the output sound quality by tapping in to the wires feeding the OEM tweeters first, as you recommend, and then tapping in to the midrange wires, as @Chriscpm did, to determine which actually sounds best, at least to my ears. Again, I'm not an audio expert, by any stretch, but the one aspect that I'd like to preserve, which I already know works with @Chriscpm's method is for the OEM tweeters to continue to work in tandem with the Alpines (4 altogether). Do you believe this to be the case as well when I tap in to the Tweeter wires, or will one set disable the other somehow?
@Chriscpm was kind enough to provide me with the speaker wire color codes, which is very helpful and he'll likely be sharing that info here shortly if it was not already posted somewhere in the forum.

Tapping the wires keeps the existing drivers working. No worries there.

 

[Six Speed Stephen]

Speaker drivers are designed to play specific frequency ranges. A 1" tweeter like the Alpine is *TYPICALLY* designed for playing frequencies above 2000-2500Hz. Say "tss" to yourself, that's the frequency it's designed to play.

The front speaker of the KEF contains both a midrange and a tweeter. So there are two sets of amplifier wires feeding it. If you tap the tweeter amplifier wires for the additional Alpine tweeter, you are probably good to go, since those amplifier wires is already sending tweeter-only signals. If you tap the midrange wires, then this would send midrange signals to the Alpine tweeter. This would be bad for the tweeter. Imagine driving the Emira with the stock suspension off road. I normally would say that this would sound terrible, as an Emira would also make a terrible off-road vehicle, but I don't want to get into back and forth about what sounds good or bad since everyone's preferences are different.

I wouldn't recommend it, but it's not my car, or my ears. So.

Thanks for the explanation. Just so I understand, the single speaker in the door has two separate wires attached to it from the AMP?

 

[Nova]

Thanks for the explanation. Just so I understand, the single speaker in the door has two separate wires attached to it from the AMP?

Four separate wires, one pair for the tweeter and one pair for the midrange. You need to find out the color code of the wires that belong together. If you take one wire from the tweeter and one from the midrange, the amplifier is going to have a bad time.

 

[Six Speed Stephen]

Four separate wires, one pair for the tweeter and one pair for the midrange. You need to find out the color code of the wires that belong together. If you take one wire from the tweeter and one from the midrange, the amplifier is going to have a bad time.

Thanks! What frequencies does the speaker in the dash get?

 

[Six Speed Stephen]

Here you go.

The car has a spot for the tweeters. Lotus just didn't use any. They said there is a tweeter in the 3 inch driver. True, but this is way better up in the high dash area. That picture is a bit dark. I just slipped it in from the bottom and put some foam in there to hold it in place.

If you pull the screw out, you can get more access to the bundle of wires. The tricky thing was to cut open the protective outer layer without cutting my finger or cutting through the whole bunch of wires. I just cut a bit at a time.

Then the plastic tool to slip the rubber piece back over the plastic piece. The plastic piece literally pops out without tools.

View attachment 57785View attachment 57786View attachment 57787View attachment 57788View attachment 57789

How did you wire the cable from the speaker in the door to the tweeter in the A pillar?

 

[Chriscpm]

Thanks for providing the info on what you did here. It sounds (pun intended) like this could be an interesting and inexpensive enhancement. I have a few questions.

Could the sound deadening material have added to the improved sound quality?
Do you think the sound deadening helped overall to quiet the interior?
What sound deadening product did you use?

I'd be interested in both mods, but I'd only want to remove the door panels if the sound deadener provided some significant improvement.

Thanks,

I think the sound deadening material made a difference. The door part was only a fraction of the effort. The wire tap was the tougher part. It is a small space.

You could always go back and add it.

I just bought a cheap product on amazon.

Amazon product

 

[Chriscpm]

How did you wire the cable from the speaker in the door to the tweeter in the A pillar?

I tapped into the wires going from the door to the car. Check out he picture.

Here are the wire codes.

Right speaker
Main - blue and purple/white
Tweeter - yellow and purple/green

Left speaker
Main - purple/ brown and blue/yellow
Tweeter - blue and purple

 

[Chriscpm]

Speaker drivers are designed to play specific frequency ranges. A 1" tweeter like the Alpine is *TYPICALLY* designed for playing frequencies above 2000-2500Hz. Say "tss" to yourself, that's the frequency it's designed to play.

The front speaker of the KEF contains both a midrange and a tweeter. So there are two sets of amplifier wires feeding it. If you tap the tweeter amplifier wires for the additional Alpine tweeter, you are probably good to go, since those amplifier wires is already sending tweeter-only signals. If you tap the midrange wires, then this would send midrange signals to the Alpine tweeter. This would be bad for the tweeter. Imagine driving the Emira with the stock suspension off road. I normally would say that this would sound terrible, as an Emira would also make a terrible off-road vehicle, but I don't want to get into back and forth about what sounds good or bad since everyone's preferences are different.

I wouldn't recommend it, but it's not my car, or my ears. So.

This is Theory v Practice. With the Alpine filter, for sure you'd use the full range going to the mids. Then the Alpine filter would provide a crossover. It is unlikely this basic system is sending true midrange signals to one pair of wires. It's not a DSP amp or anything . Just basic. It is also unlikely that the wires feeding the tweeter go to the amp. There is just a filter somewhere.

The risk was blowing the tweeters giving them full range. This didn't happen. Nowhere near. And they sound good.

 

[Chriscpm]

Thanks for that feedback @Nova. When I receive my Alpine tweeters and have the required panels removed, it should be fairly easy for me to compare the output sound quality by tapping in to the wires feeding the OEM tweeters first, as you recommend, and then tapping in to the midrange wires, as @Chriscpm did, to determine which actually sounds best, at least to my ears. Again, I'm not an audio expert, by any stretch, but the one aspect that I'd like to preserve, which I already know works with @Chriscpm's method is for the OEM tweeters to continue to work in tandem with the Alpines (4 altogether). Do you believe this to be the case as well when I tap in to the Tweeter wires, or will one set disable the other somehow?
@Chriscpm was kind enough to provide me with the speaker wire color codes, which is very helpful and he'll likely be sharing that info here shortly if it was not already posted somewhere in the forum.

You can easily test Alpine crossover too. Just wire it in. Then try. Then take it out. The wires are easy to work with when that plastic piece of off.

 

[netsinah]

I think the sound deadening material made a difference. The door part was only a fraction of the effort. The wire tap was the tougher part. It is a small space.

You could always go back and add it.

I just bought a cheap product on amazon.

Amazon product

MANY THANKS Chriscpm (!!) for starting this thread, then filling in details and answering questions. Like others, you've convinced me to do this mod, since I love listening to "car tunes" (lol), see this as something I can do, for an affordable price (Can$168 for the Alpine tweeters I just purchased off amazon.ca). That said, while I'm inside the door, I may as well install some sound deadening insulation. The amazon link you posted above, doesn't work for me for some reason. But I pulled off the "item number" from the unworkable (for me) link, which after searching amazon.com, suggests it's the:

394mil Thickened Sound Deadener for Cars - Aluminum Foil Foam Noise Deadening Material - Heat Shield Hood Insulation Dampening Mat 6sqft​

For US$14.99 (394 mm thickness and 6 square feet); is that correct?

I'm hoping that's it, since I can buy the same product on amazon.ca for (as usual) an increased price (Can$26.99).

 

[Nova]

I tapped into the wires going from the door to the car. Check out he picture.

Here are the wire codes.

Right speaker
Main - blue and purple/white
Tweeter - yellow and purple/green

Left speaker
Main - purple/ brown and blue/yellow
Tweeter - blue and purple

Very useful information! Do you know which of the two wires is positive and negative?

 

[Nova]

Thanks! What frequencies does the speaker in the dash get?

It's hard to say. Usually the center channel speakers are band limited to play mainly the midrange and lower treble frequencies above 300hz and below 6-8khz. This is the frequency range that mainly anchors the sound stage for vocals and the core of instruments. So if I had to guess, the center channel midrange covers 300-2500 and the center channel tweeter handles above 2500hz up to 6000-8000Hz. This is just a guess though based on what is usually done. I have no knowledge of how this is done in the Emira.

 

[Nova]

This is Theory v Practice. With the Alpine filter, for sure you'd use the full range going to the mids. Then the Alpine filter would provide a crossover. It is unlikely this basic system is sending true midrange signals to one pair of wires. It's not a DSP amp or anything . Just basic. It is also unlikely that the wires feeding the tweeter go to the amp. There is just a filter somewhere.

The risk was blowing the tweeters giving them full range. This didn't happen. Nowhere near. And they sound good.

The KEF system for sure has a DSP amplifier. It uses a SigmaDSP ADAU1466 chip. We also know for sure the tweeter has its own amplifier channel as others who have done Audison amp upgrades have mapped these stock amplifier outputs previously.

 

[KJWEmira]

Yes. Much easier. I couldn't figure out how to pry the grills off.

I know another owner in the Miami area. I'm going to try going to his place to do an A-B comparison. If anyone is in Miami, let's check it out.

HI Chriscpm,

Thank you for your kind words and mention to my Audio speaker mount kit.

The A-Pillar grills cannot be prized off, you have to remove the A-Pillar trim to do this as the grill has multiple metal tabs folded over on the backside.

I would like to help you remove the trims safely, allowing you to fix your tweeters permanently in position.

Drop me a message should this be of interest for you.

Cheers.

 

[Orchardbike]

MANY THANKS Chriscpm (!!) for starting this thread, then filling in details and answering questions. Like others, you've convinced me to do this mod, since I love listening to "car tunes" (lol), see this as something I can do, for an affordable price (Can$168 for the Alpine tweeters I just purchased off amazon.ca). That said, while I'm inside the door, I may as well install some sound deadening insulation. The amazon link you posted above, doesn't work for me for some reason. But I pulled off the "item number" from the unworkable (for me) link, which after searching amazon.com, suggests it's the:

394mil Thickened Sound Deadener for Cars - Aluminum Foil Foam Noise Deadening Material - Heat Shield Hood Insulation Dampening Mat 6sqft​

For US$14.99 (394 mm thickness and 6 square feet); is that correct?

I'm hoping that's it, since I can buy the same product on amazon.ca for (as usual) an increased price (Can$26.99).

Dynamat is pretty good. I used it in my F-Type. It made the cabin a lot quieter which improved the audio and made using a phone possible. Heavy though.

 

[Chriscpm]

Very useful information! Do you know which of the two wires is positive and negative?

I don't. It would be nice to know for sure. I used the one on the left in my post as the positive. Polarity isn't critical for Tweeters.

 

[Chriscpm]

HI Chriscpm,

Thank you for your kind words and mention to my Audio speaker mount kit.

The A-Pillar grills cannot be prized off, you have to remove the A-Pillar trim to do this as the grill has multiple metal tabs folded over on the backside.

I would like to help you remove the trims safely, allowing you to fix your tweeters permanently in position.

Drop me a message should this be of interest for you.

Cheers.

I heard about this. Does the whole pillar just pry off?