Lotus cancelled my order

[Twin Cam]

Assuming you get your £5K back, big assumption, then it sounds like a missed opportunity for Lotus as you would have happily had a car at one point in that journey. Their loss then

Missed opportunity for Lotus? Let’s be honest, more like a lucky escape, and they know it

 

[FlashingBlade]

How do Lotus envision enforcing such a policy? If after taking delivery of my car I lose my job, the second car Lotus will be the first thing to go. Unless Lotus are going to offer a buy-back scheme I'd argue they're going to struggle.

Especially when a Lotus main dealer has an Emira currently for sale (presumably a last minute cancelled order) at 15k above RRP. They can flip cars but you cant?

 

[Lotustoronto]

How do Lotus envision enforcing such a policy? If after taking delivery of my car I lose my job, the second car Lotus will be the first thing to go. Unless Lotus are going to offer a buy-back scheme I'd argue they're going to struggle.

Especially when a Lotus main dealer has an Emira currently for sale (presumably a last minute cancelled order) at 15k above RRP. They can flip cars but you cant?

my guess is Lotus at the moment wants to reduce the v6 F/E waiting list as much as possible and would prefer to make the car available to the people at the end of the line. (oppose to be listing for sale) They do not want to be building V6 F/E's into 2024 if they can avoid it. There at one point was a launch sequence (F/E, i4, Base - Final GT version etc.) They are currently very behind when they planned to launch those and probably pulling all the stops to get back on track.

After you take possession of your car, I don't think there is anything they can do.

 

[TomE]

How do Lotus envision enforcing such a policy? If after taking delivery of my car I lose my job, the second car Lotus will be the first thing to go. Unless Lotus are going to offer a buy-back scheme I'd argue they're going to struggle.

Especially when a Lotus main dealer has an Emira currently for sale (presumably a last minute cancelled order) at 15k above RRP. They can flip cars but you cant?

This only applies if they have an indication prior to delivery that you intend to sell it immediately. Once you've bought it and taken delivery there is nothing they can do.

I believe Lotus HQ asked UK dealers not to get involved in flipping cars. For example the yellow car that was originally on display in the Central Nottingham showroom, was on Autotrader and then went to auction on CollectingCars. That was not bought by the dealership but they were regarded as helping the customer flip it by displaying it. In that situation, it was a genuine change of circumstances and not someone flipping for a profit.

Other customer cars have been offered to dealers for re-sale and most have declined (I know one dealer who has been offered 5). It looks like one has ignored Lotus or found a way round their request. Hypothetically, a used car registered to the first owner and with more than delivery mileage on it might not count as a flip, but I don't know the parameters of what Lotus said to dealers.

 

[Time2Fly]

I have no idea how they intend to enforce no flipping but I'm definitely here for it. Flipping/Scalping sucks.

 

[John 1963]

my guess is Lotus at the moment wants to reduce the v6 F/E waiting list as much as possible and would prefer to make the car available to the people at the end of the line. (oppose to be listing for sale) They do not want to be building V6 F/E's into 2024 if they can avoid it. There at one point was a launch sequence (F/E, i4, Base - Final GT version etc.) They are currently very behind when they planned to launch those and probably pulling all the stops to get back on track.

After you take possession of your car, I don't think there is anything they can do.

Believe me lotus has no grounds to restrict or remove your right to sell the car once you take owner ship I would actually go so far as to say if challenged in court that to refuse to sell you a car on the suspicion of selling it on is in itself illegal,, that amounts to trying to control demand hence price which is against all manufacturers and consumers rights !

 

[John 1963]

This only applies if they have an indication prior to delivery that you intend to sell it immediately. Once you've bought it and taken delivery there is nothing they can do.

I believe Lotus HQ asked UK dealers not to get involved in flipping cars. For example the yellow car that was originally on display in the Central Nottingham showroom, was on Autotrader and then went to auction on CollectingCars. That was not bought by the dealership but they were regarded as helping the customer flip it by displaying it. In that situation, it was a genuine change of circumstances and not someone flipping for a profit.

Other customer cars have been offered to dealers for re-sale and most have declined (I know one dealer who has been offered 5). It looks like one has ignored Lotus or found a way round their request. Hypothetically, a used car registered to the first owner and with more than delivery mileage on it might not count as a flip, but I don't know the parameters of what Lotus said to dealers.

The way round the request is to spell out consumer law to them and issue them with your intention to issue legal proceedings if they deem to restrict supply and or delay delivery once they have accepted your deposit and indicated a delivery schedule that is a binding contract for them to supply and for you to pay up and receive your goods !

 

[FlashingBlade]

I know someone who purchased a new Range Rover and they said they werent allowed to sell it within the first six months of ownership except back to the dealer. Dont know how accurate/true that is, but I can't imagine Lotus doing the same. I suspect its posted above, if they get wind you're going to flip it before you take delivery, it could be cancelled.

 

[TomE]

The way round the request is to spell out consumer law to them and issue them with your intention to issue legal proceedings if they deem to restrict supply and or delay delivery once they have accepted your deposit and indicated a delivery schedule that is a binding contract for them to supply and for you to pay up and receive your goods !

The terms and conditions expressly state your deposit is not a contract and does not commit Lotus to sell or commit you to buy. It’s just a reservation fee for an opportunity to order at a later date. You only sign a contract at Checkout, about 30 days before delivery. Lotus can decline to sell for any reason they choose.

After you’ve taken delivery there is nothing Lotus can do.

 

[Wake]

I think Lotus are within their rights to cancel the order if you haven’t received the car yet. It’s protecting their actual customers.

I’m in two minds about the dealership thing, as @TomE mentioned we don’t know exactly what the direction from Lotus to dealers has been about reselling. I don’t think brands should be advertising their own product at above list price. But it also looks bad for the car if the first ones to the market aren’t going for above list as it indicates a lack of demand.

 

[SuperBusa]

I know someone who purchased a new Range Rover and they said they werent allowed to sell it within the first six months of ownership except back to the dealer. Dont know how accurate/true that is, but I can't imagine Lotus doing the same. I suspect its posted above, if they get wind you're going to flip it before you take delivery, it could be cancelled.

The Ford GT came with a 2year no sale agreement every purchaser had to sign. Interestingly one very rich American took that to court and won. He then flipped his car for a significant profit.

However the Emira really isn't going to be making much in overs to be worth doing. Those on Autotrader aren't exactly zooming out of the showrooms in any kind of rush.

 

[John 1963]

The terms and conditions expressly state your deposit is not a contract and does not commit Lotus to sell or commit you to buy. It’s just a reservation fee for an opportunity to order at a later date. You only sign a contract at Checkout, about 30 days before delivery. Lotus can decline to sell for any reason they choose.

After you’ve taken delivery there is nothing Lotus can do.

They can state what they like but the placing of monies ie the deposit being placed would superseed any terms and conditions they make , in any international jurisdiction the court would be bound by the relevant precedents and once a deposit is placed they as a manufacturer and you as a customer are forming a contract to supply and you buy ; yes they can be difficult and delay that supply but they cannot cancel or withdraw the product others are purchasing under the same terms ! If you wish you could demand they supply the product and they would be obliged ; but whether it’s worth it on a mass produced car that will be able to purchased quite easily shortly is a moot point !

 

[Green]

They can state what they like but the placing of monies ie the deposit being placed would superseed any terms and conditions they make , in any international jurisdiction the court would be bound by the relevant precedents and once a deposit is placed they as a manufacturer and you as a customer are forming a contract to supply and you buy ; yes they can be difficult and delay that supply but they cannot cancel or withdraw the product others are purchasing under the same terms ! If you wish you could demand they supply the product and they would be obliged ; but whether it’s worth it on a mass produced car that will be able to purchased quite easily shortly is a moot point !

Purchase easily shortly? I think we are all past easily and shortly. Maybe you meant to say soon?

 

[Eagle7]

They can state what they like but the placing of monies ie the deposit being placed would superseed any terms and conditions they make , in any international jurisdiction the court would be bound by the relevant precedents and once a deposit is placed they as a manufacturer and you as a customer are forming a contract to supply and you buy ; yes they can be difficult and delay that supply but they cannot cancel or withdraw the product others are purchasing under the same terms ! If you wish you could demand they supply the product and they would be obliged ; but whether it’s worth it on a mass produced car that will be able to purchased quite easily shortly is a moot point !

A deposit is not a contract to buy. Because it's refundable, it's not a contract at all really. If it's a down payment, then it's a contract to buy. A deposit is merely you showing a level of interest enough to want priority in being able to purchase a vehicle, should you decide to buy one. It's generally considered a good faith measure that gives you a place in line ahead of others who have not made a deposit. It's not a guarantee however; a dealer or company does not have to actually sell anything to you, if they decide not to for whatever reason. That might result in a lawsuit if it's someone who thinks they've been discriminated against for any particular reason, but as long as the deposit is refundable, it's not a purchase order.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I did not read the UK deposit agreenement, but as Tom said and Eagle7 - if it's a reservation holder deposit, that can be refunded or refused anytime by Lotus, then that's all it is. A reservation place in the line. Not a contract to purchase.

 

[TomE]

They can state what they like but the placing of monies ie the deposit being placed would superseed any terms and conditions they make , in any international jurisdiction the court would be bound by the relevant precedents and once a deposit is placed they as a manufacturer and you as a customer are forming a contract to supply and you buy ; yes they can be difficult and delay that supply but they cannot cancel or withdraw the product others are purchasing under the same terms ! If you wish you could demand they supply the product and they would be obliged ; but whether it’s worth it on a mass produced car that will be able to purchased quite easily shortly is a moot point !

Here are the UK terms when you pay a "configuration fee". It's not a deposit and it doesn't form a contract to buy an Emira or for Lotus to sell you one.

 

[Carbuilder]

The Ford GT came with a 2year no sale agreement every purchaser had to sign. Interestingly one very rich American took that to court and won. He then flipped his car for a significant profit.

If you are talking about John Cena, he went to court and lost and paid a fine to Ford. So yes, it can be enforced.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...-john-cena-and-ford-settle-gt-resale-lawsuit/

 

[CDM1855]

If you are talking about John Cena, he went to court and lost and paid a fine to Ford. So yes, it can be enforced.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...-john-cena-and-ford-settle-gt-resale-lawsuit/

Looks like Ford also reneged on the deal, by extending the production run

Those handpicked customers thought they were buying an exclusive car, and it turns out that there were far more produced than initially thought

 

[Boombang]

Here are the UK terms when you pay a "configuration fee". It's not a deposit and it doesn't form a contract to buy an Emira or for Lotus to sell you one.

Interesting, that means that a Section 75 chargeback is technically possible, given it's not absolutely a part-payment and therefore not part of a payment over £30k.

Back when I paid it clearly stated 'Thank you for paying your Emira deposit' and no copy of terms was provided.

 

[Green]

Looks like Ford also reneged on the deal, by extending the production run

Those handpicked customers thought they were buying an exclusive car, and it turns out that there were far more produced than initially thought

Have you seen how much they sell for used? I think they are probably pretty happy doubling their money.