Lotus Communications

[Scruff111S]

It's pretty sad when early depositors, forum moderators, and self-proclaimed super fans are all at the point of frustration that we're considering cancelling our orders and/or never buying a new Lotus again. It's really sad... I was so.. SOOOOOO excited when the Emira was announced (clearly), but that excitement has burned out quite a bit (almost entirely at this point). There are times when I blame myself.. thinking it's because I'm too obsessed and spend too much time on the forums talking about it everyday.. but then I hear everyone else's stories and it really bums me out. Lotus had such a great opportunity to rebrand themselves and launch the Emira properly, but it's been a let down this past year. One thing after another. Better comms could have gone a long way... maybe even had us overlook the detuned powertrain, lack of options on the First Editions (color palette, ADAS, interior features, etc), mediocre reviews and endure the continued delays... but here we are. Delays and zero communication (especially to North American buyers). My dealer won't even get back to me on updates (likely because he has none). There is no way NA production is starting this month and no way we'll actually see deliveries in March and it really sucks. If early order customers are treated like this, I can only imagine how painful warranty work, recalls, and servicing in general will be. I'm strongly considering other options, but most mean paying a lot more and giving up the manual transmission that I really want.

In my view, at least, the fairest way for every deposit holder would have been to build in deposit order. Surely it can't be that difficult. In my case, all along i was told i was the first depositor, so as a long term Lorus enthusiast, i was excited to be privileged to be getting the first car off the line. Then the realisation hit when my car was over and over again delayed while at the same time later depositors were getting their cars. Disappointed and hurt doesn't even come close to explaining my feelings. As i have said before, i can guarantee i will never buy a new Lotus again, i did not have these problems buying used cars from dealers in the past. When i asked as to an explanation why i was unceremoniously bumped down the order, they could not give an answer, not even an apology. In my lowest moments in these proceedings, i did something i thought i would never do, i visited other manufacturers dealerships. Without exception, they told me the waiting time, build order would be in deposit order and that under no circumstances would customers be fast tracked to the front of the queue. A far cry from the Lotus policy.

 

[Leonard]

Am I the only one who isn't all that bothered by the delays / limited communication? I'm feeling left out!

Maybe it's patience, or low expectations for a boutique automaker with limited resources, or having another fun car to enjoy, or knowing deep down that no other car is able to fill the void left by cancelling my Emira reservation. My excitement hasn't wavered in the 15 months since I reserved.

Anyway feels like somebody died in here, so sending virtual hugs!

If we got honest Lotus updates I don't think anyone would care tbh

 

[DerTheDer]

I'm in the US, so I may already know the answer to this question but...
If Lotus starts having issues, like bankruptcy, is there a risk of us not getting our deposits back? I assume the dealers are holding the deposits correct? Not Lotus?

Dealers hold the deposit. Don't think lotus will go belly up, but nothing stopping the dealer from shutting down and running off with your money.......over a year they have had over 10k deposit from me....what if they fold??? I'm fucked.

 

[DerTheDer]

If we got honest Lotus updates I don't think anyone would care tbh

Ding ding ding!!!!!! So true! Yet we get diddly.

 

[Jonhklee]

Something tells me the China market is their main priority given how many Chinese cars were on the line when Harry M visited. Anywhere else, less of a priority and UK market share will be tiny in comparison and US market not big either. It’s their company sadly.

And having just watched Harry in MC20, the Emira is still a steal compared to anything Mid-engine RWD exotic looking sports car…. I’m still hanging on by a thread….. test drive in 10 days.

 

[Pops68]

Boy what a cluster-f. The frustration has clearly become unbearable and it doesn't appear there is any urgency on Lotus' part to remedy things. I am more satisfied that I made a good decision in pulling out because if this is the level of "customer care" that seems to be acceptable by Lotus, just imagine the irritation by owners should niggling problems requiring service arise! Good luck everyone but man, call me not impressed!

 

[Leonard]

Something tells me the China market is their main priority given how many Chinese cars were on the line when Harry M visited. Anywhere else, less of a priority and UK market share will be tiny in comparison and US market not big either. It’s their company sadly.

And having just watched Harry in MC20, the Emira is still a steal compared to anything Mid-engine RWD exotic looking sports car…. I’m still hanging on by a thread….. test drive in 10 days.

The Emira with an AMG V8 or joint Cosworth engine with chassis dialed up to 10 could have been a contender for 90/95k certainly a 992 rival

 

[Pugwash]

Yep, definitely Dementors.

 

[DerTheDer]

Lotus and the dealers are losing money EVERY day. Multiple dealers are getting calls with cancellations daily as the BASE customer reservations are dropping like flies and are fed up.

Doubtful there is anyone else behind me in line which is why they won't give me a deposit back.....what good pr to offer someone an FE slot.

 

[Lotus64]

If we got honest Lotus updates I don't think anyone would care tbh

Honestly, Lotus manufacturing can't give any updates cause they don't even know what's going on. They're getting tooling together, teaching line workers the process, dealing with delayed material, supplier quality and working with engineering simultaneously.

Building cars is not easy business and a million things have to come together for a vehicle to go down the line without issue with just in time manufacturing.

In my view, at least, the fairest way for every deposit holder would have been to build in deposit order. Surely it can't be that difficult.

This wouldn't be feasible for multiple reasons. In places with dealers allocations, the depositors after the allocations were filled would have to wait if a later depositor at a different location got an allocation. Another reason is that it's easier to build like configurations at once due to reduced complexity.

 

[TomE]

Am I the only one who isn't all that bothered by the delays / limited communication? I'm feeling left out!

Maybe it's patience, or low expectations for a boutique automaker with limited resources, or having another fun car to enjoy, or knowing deep down that no other car is able to fill the void left by cancelling my Emira reservation. My excitement hasn't wavered in the 15 months since I reserved.

Anyway feels like somebody died in here, so sending virtual hugs!

I'm 100% with you. Not bothered at all.

I know there are plenty of people who are OK with having limited updates and getting the car whenever it arrives. That's absolutely fine. It's a great car (if it suits your usage) and many people will enjoy owning it.

When I placed my deposit I had no info (not even a name for the car) and no timeframe. I was OK with that and it being a pre-launch process, with info likely to remain limited. I was also OK with having to make decisions without full info or even production cars being available. I was part of the Evora pre-launch process and so knew what was involved. I locked in my Emira spec in Nov 2021 and was OK with that situation.

That was until Lotus started mis-managing expectations, for example by making promises to provide info and then not publishing it, and saying it would be possible to test drive and make spec changes (subject to a defined impact on delivery timeframes).

If you're waiting patiently and happily that's great. I get a sense a few more people are becoming less happy about how it is being handled.

 

[Nova]

I feel bad for the first waves of buyers. You have to suffer through a lot of unknowns and early car issues. I have no doubt that this will largely get sorted out after the "break in" period. For those who are going through it, whether you decide to keep the car or pass, thanks for taking one for the team.

 

[Lotustoronto]

A big issue with Lotus, that Tom's situation has highlighted, is that we are not able to trust management to keep its word. Trust between the customer and Lotus has been utterly disregarded. (with some depositors but not all) If you are told options A,B,C are available to you and then back track on that, it shows what Lotus truly thinks about its customer base. That any of us are replaceable and that holding true to their word means very little to them and not worth the trouble. This type of thinking generally comes from the top down. Looking at you CEO. I am not saying they are not aware of the current issues with production and I am sure they are trying to sort them, but they are not giving me enough confidence that they really care about any of us as customers. I will echo Emiraspains comment that they run out to come fix issues on early cars more so to protect themselves, oppose to caring about the customer's situation.

Someone at Lotus is making the decisions if a spec can be changed or not. We have seen many different answers and results. Some specs can be changed, other can't. Some can get switched without a huge delay, other can't. No consistency. Shambles all around.

If I were in Tom's shoes, I would be at the Mclaren dealership tomorrow afternoon. In fact, If I start to get these experiences myself I would be out in a heartbeat. Not everyone will experience this, I am sure. Lotus will have to upset some people along this process of growth. It's sad to see that it has happened to so many on the forum. There will equally be many others on here that will receive their Emira's with good service and without issue. Lotus does not have the manpower, management system, production capacity or parts to run an operation that will satisfy its current order book/customers. What we are seeing is them picking and choosing whom they wish to help, assist and make exceptions for. I am not saying it's a personal attack on Tom, I just think he fell into the wrong side. Many more will be joining him I'm afraid.....just hope it's not me, but if it is I will continue to enjoy my Porsche.

 

[Scruff111S]

Honestly, Lotus manufacturing can't give any updates cause they don't even know what's going on. They're getting tooling together, teaching line workers the process, dealing with delayed material, supplier quality and working with engineering simultaneously.

Building cars is not easy business and a million things have to come together for a vehicle to go down the line without issue with just in time manufacturing.



This wouldn't be feasible for multiple reasons. In places with dealers allocations, the depositors after the allocations were filled would have to wait if a later depositor at a different location got an allocation. Another reason is that it's easier to build like configurations at once due to reduced complexity.

If that is the case. Then why do Porsche, Audi, Jaguar and Mazda manage to build in deposit order when I asked their policy. They were all shocked to here of the, seemingly, names out of a hat policy of Lotus.

 

[Lotus64]

When I placed my deposit I had no info (not even a name for the car) and no timeframe. I was OK with that and it being a pre-launch process, with info likely to remain limited. I was also OK with having to make decisions without full info or even production cars being available. I was part of the Evora pre-launch process and so knew what was involved. I locked in my Emira spec in Nov 2021 and was OK with that situation.

That was until Lotus started mis-managing expectations, for example by making promises to provide info and then not publishing it, and saying it would be possible to test drive and make spec changes (subject to a defined impact on delivery timeframes).

If you're waiting patiently and happily that's great. I get a sense a few more people are becoming less happy about how it is being handled.

TomE, first of all I want to say I respect you, as our shepherd, and I'm sorry that this situation happened to you.

With that being said if it wasn't for making the spec changes after your car was built, it sounds like you would of had your car already. That's what made things much more complicated.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you decided you didn't want the car and they initially told you they would cancel you and start over? Then somebody said you could switch? But then they went with the first decision and cancelled you?

I understand your frustration at them giving you hope they would delay vs cancel but shouldn't you have been prepared for the cancellation like they said in the first place?

Shame on whomever led you to believe you wouldn't get cancelled but with that being said, Lotus is made up of dozens of divisions that disjointly handle things, just like any other automaker and those divisions aren't always 100% in tune with each other. Some anger should be directed at who gave you false hope, but I'm failing to seen how that's the whole companies fault.

 

[Magma]

Dealers hold the deposit. Don't think lotus will go belly up, but nothing stopping the dealer from shutting down and running off with your money.......over a year they have had over 10k deposit from me....what if they fold??? I'm fucked.

Ya that truly sucks! I'm into the dealer $5k but it's a very high end dealer in Seattle so I'm not concerned about it folding.

 

[TRX250EX]

If that is the case. Then why do Porsche, Audi, Jaguar and Mazda manage to build in deposit order when I asked their policy. They were all shocked to here of the, seemingly, names out of a hat policy of Lotus.

Emira I have been waiting since launch date when I placed my deposit, I paid first payment as early as possible which is like a year or so ago I believe and until today car didn't even start production with every month they saying one more month.

Porsche on other hand they said we got you allocation, I went there placed rest of deposit and submitted order last November, car currently in middle of production and should arrive to me within 2 months, and that's an RS Porsche model.

I can't believe it's taking this much time for Lotus to sort communication out, I had issues with Mercedes, Range Rover orders after Covid, but not to a point where every month I get different confirmation of production date.

If I don't like the car I won't be waiting this long tbh but at the same time it's not an excuse of what's happening, I don't care about delays but communication could be alot better, this is worst I saw so far.

 

[TomE]

TomE, first of all I want to say I respect you, as our shepherd, and I'm sorry that this situation happened to you.

With that being said if it wasn't for making the spec changes after your car was built, it sounds like you would of had your car already. That's what made things much more complicated.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you decided you didn't want the car and they initially told you they would cancel you and start over? Then somebody said you could switch? But then they went with the first decision and cancelled you?

I understand your frustration at them giving you hope they would delay vs cancel but shouldn't you have been prepared for the cancellation like they said in the first place?

Shame on whomever led you to believe you wouldn't get cancelled but with that being said, Lotus is made up of dozens of divisions that disjointly handle things, just like any other automaker and those divisions aren't always 100% in tune with each other. Some anger should be directed at who gave you false hope, but I'm failing to seen how that's the whole companies fault.

I’ve been in regular contact with LCC throughout this process over the last 18 months.

When I locked my spec 13 months ago and every time there has been another delay, I’ve asked what the situation is about changes. I’ve always been told it means a delay of 6 months.

I had also been told multiple times I didn’t need to finalise my order and sign a contract (the checkout process) until after a test drive, if that’s what I wanted to do. Other people decided to go ahead without a test drive, but I wanted to take the option being offered.

When I got my checkout email I had a long conversation with LCC about the process and available options. A big part of this was related to the mess up over test drives, which resulted in my test drive being weeks after the original end of my checkout window. Lotus agreed to extend my checkout window to after my test drive and confirmed all the various options about change spec, change model/variant and defer order would continue to be available.

It is only after my test drive that Lotus have changed their position on all of it and brought cancellation into it. LCC represent Lotus so yes I hold LCC and Lotus responsible for this mis-handling of the situation.

 

[Maurice R]

Dealers hold the deposit. Don't think lotus will go belly up, but nothing stopping the dealer from shutting down and running off with your money.......over a year they have had over 10k deposit from me....what if they fold??? I'm fucked.

I think your dealer screwed you on getting you to cough up $10k deposit.
To the best of my knowledge Lotus only required the US dealerships to take a $2,500 refundable deposit.
Was also told and shown by my dealership that they collected that deposit but then sent it to Lotus
I’m not sure what other dealerships did
But would be interested to know if different

 

[DerTheDer]

I think your dealer screwed you on getting you to cough up $10k deposit.
To the best of my knowledge Lotus only required the US dealerships to take a $2,500 refundable deposit.
Was also told and shown by my dealership that they collected that deposit but then sent it to Lotus
I’m not sure what other dealerships did
But would be interested to know if different

Likely the case.