North America FE V6 2.0 Buyers Thread

[Concept24]

I just read an article about how Hyundai/Kia has been pushing EVs harder than almost any other company, yet sales of ICE and hybrid models are crushing those of EVs, which represent only 2% of sales. I think if you look at other manufacturers of ICE and hybrid vehicles, you'll see similarity. It's somewhat like the old saying, "What if you threw a party that you planned for and invested in for quite a while, and no one or very few showed up?"
Does anyone really think that EV sportscar sales would be dominant if the same manufacturer offered ICE and hybrids in addition, possibly for less money?

 

[0pirates0]

I just read an article about how Hyundai/Kia has been pushing EVs harder than almost any other company, yet sales of ICE and hybrid models are crushing those of EVs, which represent only 2% of sales. I think if you look at other manufacturers of ICE and hybrid vehicles, you'll see similarity. It's somewhat like the old saying, "What if you threw a party that you planned for and invested in for quite a while, and no one or very few showed up?"
Does anyone really think that EV sportscar sales would be dominant if the same manufacturer offered ICE and hybrids in addition, possibly for less money?

Just speak from my own perspective, as someone who lives in the North for a long time, no matter it is hybrid or ICE, Lotus is just a summer toy. Comparing to the hybrid model, ICE would require a lot less time/money in maintenance and easier updates in the future(OTA from home). I still have my emira 2.0 order in hands since i do not believe type 135 would come out at 2025 based on their current production rate.

 

[Nova]

I just read an article about how Hyundai/Kia has been pushing EVs harder than almost any other company, yet sales of ICE and hybrid models are crushing those of EVs, which represent only 2% of sales. I think if you look at other manufacturers of ICE and hybrid vehicles, you'll see similarity. It's somewhat like the old saying, "What if you threw a party that you planned for and invested in for quite a while, and no one or very few showed up?"
Does anyone really think that EV sportscar sales would be dominant if the same manufacturer offered ICE and hybrids in addition, possibly for less money?

Hyundai/Kia EV sales were hurt by not being included in the new 2023 tax incentives. The Model 3/Y duo sucked all of the oxygen out of the market, and the third-place seller is about 1/10th the sales volume of these two Tesla models combined.

Another issue with Hyundai/Kia EVs is that they produce gas/hybrid/EV versions of the same model. Customers are then confronted with the basic math of paying a $15-20k "premium" for the EV version of vehicles. As you know, Hyundai/Kia are attractive to price-sensitive consumers because of their value proposition. How many price-sensitive buyers are going to be able to come up with the additional monthly payment? Whereas a $25k SUV is a comfortable purchase for many middle-class families, a $40k SUV requires a bit more planning.

Tesla does not have this problem.

In the end, EVs are the future - this result is inevitable. We are at the early stages of the transition, but there is no mistaking the direction we are headed.

 

[KCMO68_510]

I'm heading to have another test drive at my dealer this weekend. Hoping they may have any insight by then if I'm in the 2.0 delivery window or not.

Worst part is if I was told I had to lock in specs today, I'd still be flipping coins over like 3 different color combinations.

 

[Concept24]

Hyundai/Kia EV sales were hurt by not being included in the new 2023 tax incentives. The Model 3/Y duo sucked all of the oxygen out of the market, and the third-place seller is about 1/10th the sales volume of these two Tesla models combined.

Another issue with Hyundai/Kia EVs is that they produce gas/hybrid/EV versions of the same model. Customers are then confronted with the basic math of paying a $15-20k "premium" for the EV version of vehicles. As you know, Hyundai/Kia are attractive to price-sensitive consumers because of their value proposition. How many price-sensitive buyers are going to be able to come up with the additional monthly payment? Whereas a $25k SUV is a comfortable purchase for many middle-class families, a $40k SUV requires a bit more planning.

Tesla does not have this problem.

In the end, EVs are the future - this result is inevitable. We are at the early stages of the transition, but there is no mistaking the direction we are headed.

That's like the pivot to quartz watches in the 1970s. Mechanical movements weren't "sexy" or "modern" anymore, so in 1975, Zenith Radio Corporation, the American company that owned Zenith Manufacture, whose El Primero had helped pioner the wrist-worn chronograph in 1969 sent word to the factory in Switzerland to cease all production of mechanical watches and destroy all tools for scap. Today, despite all the predictions about the end of mechanical watches, they are alive and well with many being collectibles.
So no, car buyers will not suddenly swarm to EVs in 2030. Many will turn to hybrids that have many advantages over fully-electrics. This is 2023 and yet we have no (even remotely)- affordable EV sportscars. That should tell you something.

 

[Nova]

That's like the pivot to quartz watches in the 1970s. Mechanical movements weren't "sexy" or "modern" anymore, so in 1975, Zenith Radio Corporation, the American company that owned Zenith Manufacture, whose El Primero had helped pioner the wrist-worn chronograph in 1969 sent word to the factory in Switzerland to cease all production of mechanical watches and destroy all tools for scap. Today, despite all the predictions about the end of mechanical watches, they are alive and well with many being collectibles.
So no, car buyers will not suddenly swarm to EVs in 2030. Many will turn to hybrids that have many advantages over fully-electrics. This is 2023 and yet we have no (even remotely)- affordable EV sportscars. That should tell you something.

Lol, as large as the mechanical watch market is today, it's a tiny fraction in terms of unit volume compared to the overall market for "personal time telling", which includes cell phones and smart watches. Quarts watch sales absolutely dwarved mechanical watches when they were popular. People absolutely swarmed to it. Just because we don't have something yet, doesn't mean we won't have it in the future.

 

[Concept24]

The point is that ICE vehicles will still be sold to enthusiasts who prefer them over EVs, just as mechanical watches and grandfather clocks are still being sold.

What's your estimation of EV sportscars on the road in 2030, in comparison to ICE sportscars?

 

[Nova]

The point is that ICE vehicles will still be sold to enthusiasts who prefer them over EVs, just as mechanical watches and grandfather clocks are still being sold.

What's your estimation of EV sportscars on the road in 2030, in comparison to ICE sportscars?

Your point is irrelevant because it does not conflict with my observation that the car market will broadly adopt EV designs.

No one owes you an estimation on when something will happen - the inevitable dominance of EVs over ICEs does not depend on a set schedule.

 

[Concept24]

Your point is irrelevant because it does not conflict with my observation that the car market will broadly adopt EV designs.

No one owes you an estimation on when something will happen - the inevitable dominance of EVs over ICEs does not depend on a set schedule.

It certainly does if you live in California or some other states that are adopting similar laws.
I maintain that EVs will not be adopted as quickly as you think in areas where buyers can choose what they want.

 

[Nova]

It certainly does if you live in California or some other states that are adopting similar laws.
I maintain that EVs will not be adopted as quickly as you think in areas where buyers can choose what they want.

I don't see how that's possible since I made no predictions on how quickly EVs will be adopted.

If some states exact mandatory transitions to EVs, that only helps speed up adoption, not slow it down - but the eventual dominance of EVs does not depend on this. It will just happen over a longer timeline, which again, I make no prediction of.

 

[Concept24]

Your point is irrelevant because it does not conflict with my observation that the car market will broadly adopt EV designs.

No one owes you an estimation on when something will happen - the inevitable dominance of EVs over ICEs does not depend on a set schedule.

Some states ARE setting a schedule.