North America FE V6 2.0 Buyers Thread

[Concept24]

As long as you’re willing to return the favor when it’s my turn to get mine!

Yes, we'd help out with the North American cars, only.

 

[EspritGuy]

I don't remember anything being said about the timing of the FE2.0 cars, just that they would be making them (soon), and that 700+600=1500. I don't see how they can make the FE2.0 cars this year when they have not even started collecting deposits for them.

Noted.
The Gator letter estimated 5 months production time.
In the absence of information we are reduced to speculation.
I have zero basis but imagine NA FE 1.0 will be made May-June-July (for the October onward deliveries) and then NA FE 2.0
production starts July onward.
This conjecture assumes NA Dealers learn their cut of the 600 new allocations around June 1st, triggering depositor notifications with tight deadline to submit Build Orders.
If any of this supposition holds then Christmas will be special this year for a select few.
It's more likely 2023 will be the year of NA FE/1.0 and 2024 the year of NA FE/2,0 in terms of deliveries. The 14 FE may be slated for 2Q.
Yes, still waiting on Base Edition pricing and Configurator; my guess is July 2023.
Lotus may yet surprise, but I/we have lived off a steady diet of disappointment.
Apologies for my Emira Forum addiction; withdrawal symptoms have been reported.

 

[Nova]

See post #47 for text section in the link.
Depositors in 2021 who missed the 700 unit cutoff remain on Dealer que lists. They would qualify for the additional 600 allocations. Production delays for FE 1.0 were mentioned and prioritized for 2023. This was said to include FE 2.0 units. I'm not aware of any retraction.
Trying to keep hope alive.

I don't disagree with that. I'm just pointing out that there is no timeline for the FE 2.0 cars other than the promise to prioritize production of the FE 1.0 and 2.0 cars in 2023. Given that we are seeing indications that the FE 1.0 cars have been further delayed in production, hence the move-up of V6 Auto and FE I4 cars in UK/Europe, I believe things have changed since early March. I guess I'll regain some trust in Lotus if people actually start getting contacted by dealers about a FE 2.0 build slot. It's been 2 months...

 

[Nova]

Noted.
The Gator letter estimated 5 months production time.
In the absence of information we are reduced to speculation.
I have zero basis but imagine NA FE 1.0 will be made May-June-July (for the October onward deliveries) and then NA FE 2.0
production starts July onward.
This conjecture assumes NA Dealers learn their cut of the 600 new allocations around June 1st, triggering depositor notifications with tight deadline to submit Build Orders.
If any of this supposition holds then Christmas will be special this year for a select few.
It's more likely 2023 will be the year of NA FE/1.0 and 2024 the year of NA FE/2,0 in terms of deliveries. The 14 FE may be slated for 2Q.
Yes, still waiting on Base Edition pricing and Configurator; my guess is July 2023.
Lotus may yet surprise, but I/we have lived off a steady diet of disappointment.
Apologies for my Emira Forum addiction; withdrawal symptoms have been reported.

I really don't think that's happening anymore. There is *no* indication that they have started producing any NA cars. I don't think they are going to build the cars and ship them to a US port where they will sit. They delayed the January start of US-spec production by building the UK/EU V6 autos ahead of schedule. They have just recently started contacting UK/EU I4 customers that their cars will be built earlier than expected, meaning US cars will be delayed, yet again. If I wanted to bet, I would say that they are planning to build the cars in August - October, for delivery in December. If they are planning to build FE 2.0 cars in 2023, they probably won't arrive until early 2024.

 

[digilotus]

From what I recall based on the original delivery schedule before all the delays, N/A (Base) cars were to start being manufactured about 6 months after the start of I4 FE production cars. Even then they would be V6 base first, then i4 Base a bit later.

So I wouldn't expect any Base cars to be manufactured until calendar year 2024. Happy to be proven wrong though!

 

[Art1faqt]

From what I recall based on the original delivery schedule before all the delays, N/A (Base) cars were to start being manufactured about 6 months after the start of I4 FE production cars. Even then they would be V6 base first, then i4 Base a bit later.

So I wouldn't expect any Base cars to be manufactured until calendar year 2024. Happy to be proven wrong though!

My dealer rep said base v6 production won’t start till mid 2024, as Lotus will begin production and start delivery of FE I4’s before that. I imagine those I4’s will be mostly for ROW and not US spec.

Get this, he also said Eletre deliveries in the US will begin early 2024. So probably before most FE V6’s arrive at this rate.

 

[digilotus]

My dealer rep said base v6 production won’t start till mid 2024, as Lotus will begin production and start delivery of FE I4’s before that. I imagine those I4’s will be mostly for ROW and not US spec.

Get this, he also said Eletre deliveries in the US will begin early 2024. So probably before most FE V6’s arrive at this rate.

So the Envya might be delivered in late 2023 then?

 

[Pegasi]

From what I recall based on the original delivery schedule before all the delays, N/A (Base) cars were to start being manufactured about 6 months after the start of I4 FE production cars. Even then they would be V6 base first, then i4 Base a bit later.

So I wouldn't expect any Base cars to be manufactured until calendar year 2024. Happy to be proven wrong though!

My own estimate was Q1 2025 for my base. Looks like I am on schedule. All I do is take the most reliable estimate date and add 18 months. That seems to be working! I guess there is still a chance for me to get a 2.0 FE though...

 

[Lotustoronto]

My guess is N/A production will be Sep/Oct/Nov/Dec - and that should cover all 1,500 V6 FE. I4 F/E in q1 2024. Base V6 probably start in q2 2024 with late summer/fall 2024 delivery.

 

[EspritGuy]

My guess is N/A production will be Sep/Oct/Nov/Dec - and that should cover all 1,500 V6 FE. I4 F/E in q1 2024. Base V6 probably start in q2 2024 with late summer/fall 2024 delivery.

All of these production/delivery guesstimates (including mine) are pushing up against the ICE phase out -electrification timeline.
Plus the (regulation & taxation driven) I4 engine will crowd out the V6 version.
This stress tests the whole worth-the-wait blurb.
#ForTheLuckyFew

 

[Hell4Leather]

Depositors in 2021 who missed the 700 unit cutoff remain on Dealer que lists. They would qualify for the additional 600 allocations. Production delays for FE 1.0 were mentioned and prioritized for 2023. This was said to include FE 2.0 units. I'm not aware of any retraction.
Trying to keep hope alive.

right. As I understood it as well. 2.0 is not an actual designation of anything. Lotus is simply stating that as they have not started production for North America yet they are going to build more FE’s than just 700 as a thanks for your patience offering. The only difference will be the price. Those that have confirmed builds already have a lower price.

 

[kitkat]

All of these production/delivery guesstimates (including mine) are pushing up against the ICE phase out -electrification timeline.
Plus the (regulation & taxation driven) I4 engine will crowd out the V6 version.
This stress tests the whole worth-the-wait blurb.
#ForTheLuckyFew

It’s amazing we were all making half hearted jokes about this a year ago but it might be real now just based on how damn late they are.

 

[Eagle7]

It’s amazing we were all making half hearted jokes about this a year ago but it might be real now just based on how damn late they are.

I know, right? Since we're not likely to get our cars in the U.S. until probably Jan/Feb at the earliest (I'm not believing the Nov/Dec timeframe we've been given), that means we won't even get the first cars until 2024. If they truly have 3 years of orders for the FE as Harry indicated in his video, and that's BEFORE they start to show up on the street in the U.S., are they going to want to even bother with any other model? They won't even be able to fill existing orders (not taking into account any new ones) until 2027, and 2028 was supposed to be the cutoff, right?

I'm starting to wonder if they not only didn't expect this car to be a success, but didn't really want it to be; certainly not like it's become already. The demand may actually be an annoyance at this point, since they're supposed to be switching over to electric completely starting in 2025, only a year after they've even begun to deliver U.S. cars. Aren't the new Type 135 electric sports cars supposed to be getting built in the same facility that the Emira is being produced in? If that model is supposed to replace the Emira, won't Emira production kinda/sorta be in the way?

What a problem to have, really.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I know, right? Since we're not likely to get our cars in the U.S. until probably Jan/Feb at the earliest (I'm not believing the Nov/Dec timeframe we've been given), that means we won't even get the first cars until 2024. If they truly have 3 years of orders for the FE as Harry indicated in his video, and that's BEFORE they start to show up on the street in the U.S., are they going to want to even bother with any other model? They won't even be able to fill existing orders (not taking into account any new ones) until 2027, and 2028 was supposed to be the cutoff, right?

I'm starting to wonder if they not only didn't expect this car to be a success, but didn't really want it to be; certainly not like it's become already. The demand may actually be an annoyance at this point, since they're supposed to be switching over to electric completely starting in 2025, only a year after they've even begun to deliver U.S. cars. Aren't the new Type 135 electric sports cars supposed to be getting built in the same facility that the Emira is being produced in? If that model is supposed to replace the Emira, won't Emira production kinda/sorta be in the way?

What a problem to have, really.

I thought about this as well. I think as a business they are going to want to sell as much as they can and that may mean extending the 2028 deadline on the Emira. Also, the Emira was always going to be used as the gateway/attraction to show off Lotus' other offerings (lifestyle EV's). With that in mind, I think we will see the release of the EV sports car sometime in the calendar year of 2025/2026. With a start of production more or less the same. The reason I don't think they will want to delay to far is the competition is catching up in the EV sports car segment. Such as the MG (already revealed), 718 EV's (to be revealed next year with 2025 delivery) and Alpine (who decided to end the relationship with Lotus).

I don't think they will push the Type 135 too far out but let's say 2026 deliveries. That's 2.5 years worth of more Emira production. My guess is new variants will be released in 2025 as the "S" variant with 2-3 years of production. The final Emira ICE/ GT/ R will probably be released in 2027 for a 1 year or so model run before EV completely takes over. The "S" and "R" variants will have significantly less build slots as the EV gets going until it is fully phased out.

My estimate

2022/23 - V6 F/E
2023/24 - V6 F/E & i4 F/E
2024/2025 - i4 F/E & Base V6/i4
2025/2026 - Base V6/i4 & debut "S" Variant (Type 135 EV sports Car revealed, but may not start production until 2026)
2026/2027 - Emira "S" & Type 135 (maybe some Base i4)
2027/2028 - Emira GT (final) & Emira S & Type 135
2028/2029 - Mostly Type 135 & Some Emira GT
2030 - EV Only

My Estimation on total ICE Emira from 2022-2028/9 is around 30,000-50,000 Cars in total. Should be more than enough Emira's for everyone. How long it takes to get one is another question. From 2024-2026 I expect to see somewhere around 20K Emira's produced.

 

[eriegz]

I'm starting to wonder if they not only didn't expect this car to be a success, but didn't really want it to be

An interesting theory, but then how to explain the high production numbers they were quoting from the start, and all of the press tours they did (e.g., Smoking Tire podcast, etc.)? They really seemed to want it to be a success initially, at least.

 

[DerTheDer]

Base probably wont hit till 25 honestly at this rate. I see V6 FE1.0's coming Feb/Mar/April then 2.0 July/Aug/Sept then some I4 Fe's after that.

Shame really.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Base probably wont hit till 25 honestly at this rate. I see V6 FE1.0's coming Feb/Mar/April then 2.0 July/Aug/Sept then some I4 Fe's after that.

Shame really.

I think The base will be released for Europe/UK in 2024 for sure. They will wrap up V6 F/E builds this year for both V1 and V2, I would think with the remaining i4 F/E to be build Q1/2 2024. The Second Half of 2024 will be for Base model China, UK/EU first then ROW.

I expect to see Base North American Emira's to arrive best case Q4 2024 but most likely Q1 2025. Configurator to go live in Q2 2024 for ROW.

 

[Lotustoronto]

The real question I have and I think I know the answer.... will the "S" and "R" variants be i4? If so, the end of the manual V6 Emira may very well be 2025. Which makes sense as I don't think they will bump the power and go through re-certification for the V6. Where it makes sense for the i4 as the DCT will offer much more competitive performance. I think we will see the last manual Lotus as a 2025/26 Model. That will be a sad day.

 

[Eagle7]

An interesting theory, but then how to explain the high production numbers they were quoting from the start, and all of the press tours they did (e.g., Smoking Tire podcast, etc.)? They really seemed to want it to be a success initially, at least.

My thought on the high production numbers was they were thinking about the ability to produce the Type 135. The Emira was sort of like the training mule to get the production system up and running, so the press tours were necessary to at least get some kind of sales going. The fact that they thought they needed to bundle all the options with the base model as the launch spec, tells you they didn't really think the car would be attractive enough to get sales going without that. They used the base price as the teaser to get people's attention, but they may very well have expected no more sales success than they had with their previous models, the Elise, Exige and Evora. The landslide response to the Emira was clearly not something they expected or were prepared for.

I am honestly starting to think the Emira was just meant to be a kick-starter for the electric cars. Their astonishing void of customer interaction that we've all complained about from almost the beginning, would now seem to make sense if they weren't planning on the Emira being a runaway success, or maybe don't even necessarily want it to be. What if they were planning on the Type 135 being that car, instead of the Emira?

Obviously Lotus is a business and sales are sales, but since the Emira is their last ICE car, which means everything else they're working on right now is electric, how much more are they going to want to put into the Emira? We're almost at the debut year of the Type 135. I know traditionally they've come out with more powerful versions after a new model is released, but this situation isn't like any previous model. Because it's taking so long to even get this first model out to customers, what are they thinking inside the company? Pour more development money into the Emira, or just finish out the order book they have and pour the money into the Type 135?

Interesting to think about.

 

[eriegz]

what are they thinking inside the company?

This one quote really sums it all up, doesn't it.