Perspective on reviews

[xen]

It’s fairly simple, the ONE THING no one ever expected was the handling to called into question. All things considered even Jethro commented had Lotus been on site and been able to swap in the proper track setup this would have been a footnote. I don’t, for a minute, believe the handling is compromised on the Emira. What I do believe is the Goodyear tires are crap for anything above 8/10ths which jives with my 40+ years sampling every brand of performance tire on the planet. Michelin rule this space, Goodyear is a bit player.

This is part of the problem. The expectations. The handling on the Emira (a part of it at least) IS compromised because a conscious decision (by Lotus themselves) was made to prioritise looks over performance (20’s at the front) against Gavins wishes. The car is also heavier.

This is not to say it handles bad but we can’t keep selectively processing information we like and ‘forgetting’ what we don’t.

 

[FederGigant]

To be fair, if you might have read Jethro's article in EVO 299 about his track experience with the Emira, you would know that it managed a 1:18.5 time, which is decently fast. The Exige S did a 1:19.1, The F82 M4 1:19.2, the AMG GT S with 510 hp did a 1:17.0. Without a doubt the Emira would have been well below 1:17.0 with the Cup 2s. It would then be in Nissan GTR and Alfa Giulia GTAm territory, which is kind of a ridiculous achievement if you know the other cars and consider the Emira "only" has 400 hp.
Sadly they don't mention the Porsche Cayman GT4s time, not even in it's own article where it was compared to a tuned one. However they weighed the "super lightweight" Porsche: 1460 kg.

 

[Eagle7]

It's not like the car can't run Goodyears with the sport suspension on the track; it can, but every one of you should (and do) know that Cup2's are going to be better on the track, that's what they're for. Question is, will the sport suspension with Goodyears be better on the track than the touring suspension with Goodyears. My guess would be the sport suspension.

No all-season tire is going to compete with a track tire on the track. I don't know why this is even a discussion.

 

[GetawayDriving]

Before the reviews I remember reading the Emira would be at home both on road and track. I remember something about a silly number of compounds Gavin tested till he was happy. I remember the touring set up fine for track but sports better.

All of a sudden it’s everything else’s fault but the car. With all the information and marketing the Sports suspension on Goodyears should have been perfectly fine on track. What was the point of all those compounds if not?! His was not the only review that mentioned less than ideal handling - a few other reports of understear and the front end not quite there.

If that combination was so bad Lotus should not have offered it. They did because they felt it was ok (or the best they could do within their constraints) - that’s what should be discussed not blaming a tire…like it put itself on the car.

The Goodyears have to be a good road tire, so much of that testing was likely also weighing noise, ride quality, road feel, durability etc in road conditions. The track Tire just needs grip above all else. Being “fine” on the track sounds like exactly what this was, it’s just that Jethro wasn’t comparing it to “fine” he was comparing it to the most focused version of the very best in the segment. It’s not surprising he’d want to park the Lotus and have more time with the Porsche, he could have just been more forthright about why he was feeling that why instead of acting moody about it and giving the impression the Lotus was unwanted.

 

[xen]

The Goodyears have to be a good road tire, so much of that testing was likely also weighing noise, ride quality, road feel, durability etc in road conditions. The track Tire just needs grip above all else. Being “fine” on the track sounds like exactly what this was, it’s just that Jethro wasn’t comparing it to “fine” he was comparing it to the most focused version of the very best in the segment. It’s not surprising he’d want to park the Lotus and have more time with the Porsche, he could have just been more forthright about why he was feeling that why instead of acting moody about it and giving the impression the Lotus was unwanted.

You say that but this is directly from the website:

“Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport
Outstanding traction, braking, and cornering ability in both wet and dry conditions.”

Does this read like it should be just ‘fine’ on track? Certainly not bad enough that lotus shouldn’t send the combination for a track review.

 

[FederGigant]

You say that but this is directly from the website:

“Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport
Outstanding traction, braking, and cornering ability in both wet and dry conditions.”

Does this read like it should be just ‘fine’ on track? Certainly not bad enough that lotus shouldn’t send the combination for a track review.

If you compare it to a way stickier semi slick specifically designed for hardcore track use, then yes.

 

[emiraspain]

It’s fairly simple, the ONE THING no one ever expected was the handling to called into question. All things considered even Jethro commented had Lotus been on site and been able to swap in the proper track setup this would have been a footnote. I don’t, for a minute, believe the handling is compromised on the Emira. What I do believe is the Goodyear tires are crap for anything above 8/10ths which jives with my 40+ years sampling every brand of performance tire on the planet. Michelin rule this space, Goodyear is a bit player.

Im sure you are right, but if you want to use your car all year round and face greasy roads, then what else can you do, there are only 2 choices from Lotus without spending another 1200 afterwards and finding space in an already packed garage.. full of crap haha.

 

[Citizen]

To be fair, if you might have read Jethro's article in EVO 299 about his track experience with the Emira, you would know that it managed a 1:18.5 time, which is decently fast. The Exige S did a 1:19.1, The F82 M4 1:19.2, the AMG GT S with 510 hp did a 1:17.0. Without a doubt the Emira would have been well below 1:17.0 with the Cup 2s. It would then be in Nissan GTR and Alfa Giulia GTAm territory, which is kind of a ridiculous achievement if you know the other cars and consider the Emira "only" has 400 hp.
Sadly they don't mention the Porsche Cayman GT4s time, not even in it's own article where it was compared to a tuned one. However they weighed the "super lightweight" Porsche: 1460 kg.

Wait , they already set a lap time comparing with others cars ? Where can I read about it online ?

 

[FederGigant]

Wait , they already set a lap time comparing with others cars ? Where can I read about it online ?

You can google the EVO track times for Anglesey. The Emira isn't listed yet, but in the print magazine Jethro stated the time he drove with the car from the video with Goodyear tires.
To quote him: "Even so, the lap time is a respectable 1:18.5 and with the Cup 2s that would surely improve by a significant margin."

 

[Citizen]

You can google the EVO track times for Anglesey. The Emira isn't listed yet, but in the print magazine Jethro stated the time he drove with the car from the video with Goodyear tires.
To quote him: "Even so, the lap time is a respectable 1:18.5 and with the Cup 2s that would surely improve by a significant margin."

Anglesey Coastal lap times - FastestLaps.com

List of fastest lap times for Anglesey Coastal. Updated October 2022.

fastestlaps.com

 

[Eagle7]

You say that but this is directly from the website:

“Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport
Outstanding traction, braking, and cornering ability in both wet and dry conditions.”

Does this read like it should be just ‘fine’ on track? Certainly not bad enough that lotus shouldn’t send the combination for a track review.

But that's the issue; Lotus DIDN'T send that combination for a track review. They sent it to Henry for a road trip review. It was Jethro who took the car after Henry brought it back, and instead of returning it to Lotus, took it to the track without Lotus knowing about it and put the car up against a track-focused GT4. Then he made that his video review as though Lotus just doesn't have it together. That's the issue.

 

[Leonard]

But that's the issue; Lotus DIDN'T send that combination for a track review. They sent it to Henry for a road trip review. It was Jethro who took the car after Henry brought it back, and instead of returning it to Lotus, took it to the track without Lotus knowing about it and put the car up against a track-focused GT4. Then he made that his video review as though Lotus just doesn't have it together. That's the issue.

We shall see anyway as lotus are supplying a Cup 2 shod motor for review.
I think EVO will still have similar issues in regards to it being softer/less polished than expected etc.
However I obviously hope to be proved wrong

 

[xen]

But that's the issue; Lotus DIDN'T send that combination for a track review. They sent it to Henry for a road trip review. It was Jethro who took the car after Henry brought it back, and instead of returning it to Lotus, took it to the track without Lotus knowing about it and put the car up against a track-focused GT4. Then he made that his video review as though Lotus just doesn't have it together. That's the issue.

That’s not a fair characterisation of the review. He mentioned a few caveats at the start. Let’s also look at his comments in totality:

-Car needs some rake, feels soft at the front

-Engine - it’s ok. Revs to 6.5 and you bump against the limiter.

-Gearbox - it’s ok. Shift quality is good but hard not to mess up a shift

-Car understeers and lacks some front end grip.

All these I believe have been raised elsewhere by other reviewers. The tire isn’t the reason for all the above but his review is being discounted for that reason.

Also worrying for me - it appears the choice of tire is even more important than the suspension set-up. If you read the comments here you’d assume Tour + Cup 2’s is better for track than Sport + Goodyears

 

[Eagle7]

That’s not a fair characterisation of the review. He mentioned a few caveats at the start. Let’s also look at his comments in totality:

-Car needs some rake, feels soft at the front

-Engine - it’s ok. Revs to 6.5 and you bump against the limiter.

-Gearbox - it’s ok. Shift quality is good but hard not to mess up a shift

-Car understeers and lacks some front end grip.

All these I believe have been raised elsewhere by other reviewers. The tire isn’t the reason for all the above but his review is being discounted for that reason.

Also worrying for me - it appears the choice of tire is even more important than the suspension set-up. If you read the comments here you’d assume Tour + Cup 2’s is better for track than Sport + Goodyears

When Harry had concerns about what he was experiencing with his test car, he called Lotus and they promptly sent out a second car with the tour setup. Don't you think if Jethro had called Lotus and said "Hey, I'd like to take it to the track to compare it to a Porsche GT4 before returning it." Don't you think Lotus would have either said no, it's pre-production and we don't want a comparison like that until we have a final production car ready, OR they would have said let us bring a set of Cup2's for you first? How much different do you think his video review would have been then? Especially with the "feels soft at the front", and "understeers and lacks some front end grip". Track times would have been better too.

It was just the way he went about it, and the way he presented it that was not cool and created unnecessary drama. The fact that he didn't even tell them he did it until they saw his video review, was just not what you would expect from a professional.

 

[Leonard]

When Harry had concerns about what he was experiencing with his test car, he called Lotus and they promptly sent out a second car with the tour setup. Don't you think if Jethro had called Lotus and said "Hey, I'd like to take it to the track to compare it to a Porsche GT4 before returning it." Don't you think Lotus would have either said no, it's pre-production and we don't want a comparison like that until we have a final production car ready, OR they would have said let us bring a set of Cup2's for you first? How much different do you think his video review would have been then? Especially with the "feels soft at the front", and "understeers and lacks some front end grip". Track times would have been better too.

It was just the way he went about it, and the way he presented it that was not cool and created unnecessary drama. The fact that he didn't even tell them he did it until they saw his video review, was just not what you would expect from a professional.

I honestly think you are reading too much into it. It wasn't a full comparison test. The car had the track suspension.
Let's just all agree to wait until the re-run with Cup 2s and pick up again then

 

[GetawayDriving]

You say that but this is directly from the website:

“Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport
Outstanding traction, braking, and cornering ability in both wet and dry conditions.”

Does this read like it should be just ‘fine’ on track? Certainly not bad enough that lotus shouldn’t send the combination for a track review.

Yeah they don’t specify track performance here. It’s a touring tire designed for the road, so the context implies outstanding traction, braking and cornering in both wet and dry conditions on the road (which, in turn, implies at road-legal speeds/behavior).

The key phrase there is “wet and dry conditions” because the Cup 2 tire is terrible in the wet.

Meanwhile the Cup 2 says designed for the track and “approved” for the road which is a hilarious way of discouraging road use.

 

[GetawayDriving]

When Harry had concerns about what he was experiencing with his test car, he called Lotus and they promptly sent out a second car with the tour setup. Don't you think if Jethro had called Lotus and said "Hey, I'd like to take it to the track to compare it to a Porsche GT4 before returning it." Don't you think Lotus would have either said no, it's pre-production and we don't want a comparison like that until we have a final production car ready, OR they would have said let us bring a set of Cup2's for you first? How much different do you think his video review would have been then? Especially with the "feels soft at the front", and "understeers and lacks some front end grip". Track times would have been better too.

It was just the way he went about it, and the way he presented it that was not cool and created unnecessary drama. The fact that he didn't even tell them he did it until they saw his video review, was just not what you would expect from a professional.

Maybe if he had they would have hauled the GT4 spec Emira over as a taster along with the road car.

 

[Pegasi]

To be fair, if you might have read Jethro's article in EVO 299 about his track experience with the Emira, you would know that it managed a 1:18.5 time, which is decently fast. The Exige S did a 1:19.1, The F82 M4 1:19.2, the AMG GT S with 510 hp did a 1:17.0. Without a doubt the Emira would have been well below 1:17.0 with the Cup 2s. It would then be in Nissan GTR and Alfa Giulia GTAm territory, which is kind of a ridiculous achievement if you know the other cars and consider the Emira "only" has 400 hp.
Sadly they don't mention the Porsche Cayman GT4s time, not even in it's own article where it was compared to a tuned one. However they weighed the "super lightweight" Porsche: 1460 kg.

How do I get to this article? I can't find it. I am in the USA too.

 

[Hedge]

To be fair, if you might have read Jethro's article in EVO 299 about his track experience with the Emira, you would know that it managed a 1:18.5 time, which is decently fast. The Exige S did a 1:19.1, The F82 M4 1:19.2, the AMG GT S with 510 hp did a 1:17.0. Without a doubt the Emira would have been well below 1:17.0 with the Cup 2s. It would then be in Nissan GTR and Alfa Giulia GTAm territory, which is kind of a ridiculous achievement if you know the other cars and consider the Emira "only" has 400 hp.
Sadly they don't mention the Porsche Cayman GT4s time, not even in it's own article where it was compared to a tuned one. However they weighed the "super lightweight" Porsche: 1460 kg.

I do love the Porsche lightweight weights!

The Emira time certainly has more to come, which is great.

 

[FederGigant]

How do I get to this article? I can't find it. I am in the USA too.

You have to get the EVO app on a mobile device or Apple silicon powered MacBook and buy issue 299 of the print magazine.