Porsche 992 GT3 RS customers are already flipping their allocations for $650,000 CAD ($500,000 USD)

[ksegg]

My guess the prices will normalize when people stop buying stuff. Not complicated.

Disagreed. You have rotten apples constantly ruining it for the majority. So long as this is allowed to continue, eveyrone else will get squeezed out.

This is no different than gentrification of a community - take over their area, develop it, jack up pricing, move people who can afford it in, kick out everyone else who cannot.

This is why I say - greed.......is bad. It's a cancer upon the overall health of an entire society.

 

[Lotustoronto]

The way things are going, the insane markups will eventually start to create a revenue pigeonhole, where dealerships can only sell to a small number of customers who are more than willing to pay 3-4-5x for something that in normal circumstances - isn't worth 3-4-5x.

So effectively, dealerships are switching their strategy of doing high volume sales (like a McDonalds; affordable) to low volume sales (like a Jeweler; expensive).

What dealerships are doing is as plain as daylight. Dealerships have probably gotten sick of selling to "everyone", when all they want is to really sell to a "select few". With this new business model, they can severely downsize their operations (layoff pretty much everyone, except for a small crew), and don't need huge inventory, while still making an absurd profit. Once the supply chain issues are resolved - you can be assured they will NEVER go back to wanting to do high-volume sales again. It's not worth it to them.

The side effect of this, should this be allowed to continue, is that we will have a natural socio-economic divide as to who can have new cars............and who can't, aka - who is willing to pay 3-4-5x markup for something, and who refuse.

This is why dealerships need to be regulated heavily, punished by manufacturers, or the entire industry needs to go away entirely.

The entire dealership model is knee deep in price gouging, and they're left unchecked.

The only issue I see to this, is that because manufacturers (ford, GM etc.) still need to produce large quantities to sell to the masses. If they don't their stock price will be decimated. They are accountable to generate bigger profits each year. As we know from the Lotus model,(not the best) that is best done in mass produced and attractively priced vehicles in mass volumes.(Toyota) They will not reduce sales volumes, it would kill the business as another competitor will take the market share instead. Voila, Capitalism.

 

[NicolasB]

What if the manufacturers just step in where the dealers leave off and decide to sell small amounts of cars for much higher prices? They still make the same profit, but less hassle.

 

[Lotustoronto]

What if the manufacturers just step in where the dealers leave iff and decide to sell small amounts of cars for much higher prices? They still make the same profit, but less hassle.

Then we would look like Cuba.

 

[Lotustoronto]

They need to mass produce for multiple reason. Better pricing for raw material buying bulk is a big one. Also if they don't do it, Toyota, Honda, Tesla will continue to mass produce and eat their lunch.

Ask Lotus how the small expensive manufacturing looked like...

 

[Lotustoronto]

I'm pretty sure Car Dealers are fully aware this is going to happen. They are most likely riding out the last years and getting as much juice as possible. The way Tesla is selling cars will be the future for all manufacturers. If they don't they won't be able to compete soon. It is inevitable, the price gouging is just going to make it happen sooner.

 

[ksegg]

The only issue I see to this, is that because manufacturers (ford, GM etc.) still need to produce large quantities to sell to the masses. If they don't their stock price will be decimated. They are accountable to generate bigger profits each year. As we know from the Lotus model,(not the best) that is best done in mass produced and attractively priced vehicles in mass volumes.(Toyota) They will not reduce sales volumes, it would kill the business as another competitor will take the market share instead. Voila, Capitalism.

Agreed, but I see the dealerships holding all the cards right now. They pretty much ignore any warnings they get from manufacturers to "cease and desist" markups.

Like I said.........dealerships have gotten completely out of control, and there needs to be some form of regulation that will fine them heavily for every infraction.

 

[lion shf]

This is why dealerships need to be regulated heavily, punished by manufacturers, or the entire industry needs to go away entirely.

more government YAH!!

 

[ksegg]

This is why dealerships need to be regulated heavily, punished by manufacturers, or the entire industry needs to go away entirely.

more government YAH!!

The alternative is a $500,000 Chevy Malibu, because that's where we're headed.

 

[lion shf]

The alternative is a $500,000 Chevy Malibu, because that's where we're headed.

 

[Lotustoronto]

This is why dealerships need to be regulated heavily, punished by manufacturers, or the entire industry needs to go away entirely.

more government YAH!!

Two options - either manufacturers get rid of dealer network / turn them into show rooms like an apple store or leave it has it is, while other companies that do not use a dealer network continues to take their market share?

Tesla has already surpassed Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes in units sold all without a dealer network.

Car dealers are the taxi industry of 2012. The difference is the dealers know it's coming. Those taxi companies had no idea what was happening.

Who the hell is talking about more government here? Weird comment.

 

[lion shf]

Two options - either manufacturers get rid of dealer network / turn them into show rooms like an apple store or leave it has it is, while other companies that do not use a dealer network continues to take their market share?

Tesla has already surpassed Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes in units sold all without a dealer network.

Car dealers are the taxi industry of 2012. The difference is the dealers know it's coming. Those taxi companies had no idea what was happening.

Who the hell is talking about more government here? Weird comment.

Regulated by MANUFACTURERS
I get it now. Carry on

 

[ADC]

As we saw as the world burned, the governments did step in and got what people needed, can you give me a specific example of an expensive life saving machine denied to poors?

Not expressing an opinion about the topic in general, but supplying information... I assumed they might be referring to the work of this fine "capitalist" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli

 

[d15b7]

Very interesting informative thought provoking discussion! I’ve thought about this a lot in the past 6 months; and I also feel that something needs to be done.

This is what I’ve been thinking, in order to stop the flipping/scalping/ADMing:

Dealerships continue to receive cars from manufacturers (at Invoice cost). They may sell them at MSRP or whatever competitive price that they want to. Manufacturers should simultaneously make the cars available as a direct sale online (ala Tesla) at MSRP (but no less than MSRP).

Wham bam done. Dealers can still deal and sell to the public for less than MSRP on most models (and I think many folks would want to go in anyway and sit in the car and test drive and buy right then). There’s usually a pretty good spread from Invoice to MSRP so the dealer could undercut the direct online MSRP price and still make good profit. BUT - if every dealer was trying to gouge the shit out of the buying public on certain models? Then the public could go ahead and order direct online at MSRP and the greedy dealers would get few sales at big ADM. (or any at ADM). This would kneecap flippers too.

Plus dealers would still be able to service cars and do warranty work. (And be some could be delivery and prep centers for the online sales outlet).

What do you think?

 

[lion shf]

3 years ago you could buy a new GTI with a $6k discount.
4 cyl GTS 718s were 20% off
C7 vettes same

I say let it ride.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Very interesting informative thought provoking discussion! I’ve thought about this a lot in the past 6 months; and I also feel that something needs to be done.

This is what I’ve been thinking, in order to stop the flipping/scalping/ADMing:

Dealerships continue to receive cars from manufacturers (at Invoice cost). They may sell them at MSRP or whatever competitive price that they want to. Manufacturers should simultaneously make the cars available as a direct sale online (ala Tesla) at MSRP (but no less than MSRP).

Wham bam done. Dealers can still deal and sell to the public for less than MSRP on most models (and I think many folks would want to go in anyway and sit in the car and test drive and buy right then). There’s usually a pretty good spread from Invoice to MSRP so the dealer could undercut the direct online MSRP price and still make good profit. BUT - if every dealer was trying to gouge the shit out of the buying public on certain models? Then the public could go ahead and order direct online at MSRP and the greedy dealers would get few sales at big ADM. (or any at ADM). This would kneecap flippers too.

Plus dealers would still be able to service cars and do warranty work. (And be some could be delivery and prep centers for the online sales outlet).

What do you think?

Interesting idea, not sure on the laws and protection dealers have. If that would even work. I'm pretty sure manufacturers do not have a choice in going direct to customer. Tesla has proved to concept works and works very effectively. Especially with the new generation.

As the old saying goes "don't bite the hand that feeds you"... Dealers are about to find out how it pans out for them.

Let it ride as well....

 

[Lotustoronto]

Very interesting informative thought provoking discussion! I’ve thought about this a lot in the past 6 months; and I also feel that something needs to be done.

This is what I’ve been thinking, in order to stop the flipping/scalping/ADMing:

Dealerships continue to receive cars from manufacturers (at Invoice cost). They may sell them at MSRP or whatever competitive price that they want to. Manufacturers should simultaneously make the cars available as a direct sale online (ala Tesla) at MSRP (but no less than MSRP).

Wham bam done. Dealers can still deal and sell to the public for less than MSRP on most models (and I think many folks would want to go in anyway and sit in the car and test drive and buy right then). There’s usually a pretty good spread from Invoice to MSRP so the dealer could undercut the direct online MSRP price and still make good profit. BUT - if every dealer was trying to gouge the shit out of the buying public on certain models? Then the public could go ahead and order direct online at MSRP and the greedy dealers would get few sales at big ADM. (or any at ADM). This would kneecap flippers too.

Plus dealers would still be able to service cars and do warranty work. (And be some could be delivery and prep centers for the online sales outlet).

What do you think?

Good read; Looks like Ford's solution is like the apple store. Come look at the product drive it, order it. No dealer inventory, all orders are MSRP. First steps already being taken.

Ford Could Force EV Dealers To Sell At MSRP In New Model E Division

According to a new report from Automotive News, the Blue Oval company will work on new operating standards for EV sales.

www.motor1.com

 

[Flashback]

Don’t understand this #capitalism

Capitalism/free market would be Porsche pricing GT cars at the right level to maximise revenue based on the number of cars they can produce and sell - every car they can make sold at the maximum possible price.

Not dealers choosing who can buy one of their allocation at vastly under market value. There's nothing capitalist about that.

I used to work for the epitome of capitalis/free market thinking and I know what he would think about this market.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Capitalism/free market would be Porsche pricing GT cars at the right level to maximise revenue based on the number of cars they can produce and sell - every car they can make sold at the maximum possible price.

Not dealers choosing who can buy one of their allocation at vastly under market value. There's nothing capitalist about that.

I used to work for the epitome of capitalis/free market thinking and I know what he would think about this market.

well don't hold out on us... what would he think?

 

[lion shf]

Not dealers choosing who can buy one of their allocation at vastly under market value. There's nothing capitalist about that.

You’re ignoring all the money made while said hot shot earned his spot.
A business plan, based on making money, perhaps?