Production issues

[Notlob42]

This might be a bit early to be asking this, but it has to be brought up. Porsche, Jaguar, Aston, pretty much everyone, have long wait times due to supply chain issues. I spoke with a Lotus dealer yesterday and he said they don’t anticipate having the same problems. I just don’t see how a car company can build a new manufacturing facility for a new vehicle that doesn’t even have a final configuration yet and boast no supply chain issues for the next year. I’ve had a deposit down on a 718 cayman since June with no allocations in sight. Even with the potential for problems I will probably put a deposit down for the Emira this month and see which one comes first but I’m not optimistic.

Comments? Insights? I’m lease tell me some good news.

 

[New to Lotus]

If you have only just put a deposit down on an emira I can't see you getting one next year due to the amount of deposits already. As for the build process I suppose it's down to the planning and supply chain being part of geely maybe they won't have the chip issue that the rest of the manufacturers have?. Again we will have to wait and see.

 

[Leonard]

If you have only just put a deposit down on an emira I can't see you getting one next year due to the amount of deposits already. As for the build process I suppose it's down to the planning and supply chain being part of geely maybe they won't have the chip issue that the rest of the manufacturers have?. Again we will have to wait and see.

You would imagine Geely will have them covered. They are building Lotus up to be a many billion pounds worth of EV company. So won't let them fail from the off due to supply

 

[TomE]

I believe the majority of the supplier agreements were completed before the July launch.

So I think supplies had been secured for the original plan of 5000 cars per year. The higher level of interest means one of the challenges is around scaling up, although many agreements had volume options.

Bear in mind the launch was nearly 10 months before first deliveries, so they’ve got a decent run up and a strong deposit book.

I suspect the quiet dropping of ADAS between launch and V6 FE pricing announcement is to avoid a potential chip supply issue.

 

[New to Lotus]

Thank you Tom
I guess lots of the parts are uk supplied too so no in time delivery issues or import problems.

 

[Notlob42]

Thank you Tom
I guess lots of the parts are uk supplied too so no in time delivery issues or import problems.

I hope you guys are correct. After all, Volvo is still doing well. I’d just hate to see a brand like this turn into a vehicle (pardon the pun) to establish a Chinese state controlled business. I still have reservations about build quality and consistency (ADAS

 

[Notlob42]

Hit post by mistake. Anyway. The ADAS and color sample issues are only a few items on the Lotus red flag list. So… a few reservations about the product. I’m not pulling my deposit yet though.

 

[Eagle7]

This might be a bit early to be asking this, but it has to be brought up. Porsche, Jaguar, Aston, pretty much everyone, have long wait times due to supply chain issues. I spoke with a Lotus dealer yesterday and he said they don’t anticipate having the same problems. I just don’t see how a car company can build a new manufacturing facility for a new vehicle that doesn’t even have a final configuration yet and boast no supply chain issues for the next year. I’ve had a deposit down on a 718 cayman since June with no allocations in sight. Even with the potential for problems I will probably put a deposit down for the Emira this month and see which one comes first but I’m not optimistic.

Comments? Insights? I’m lease tell me some good news.

All of those manufacturers make vehicles in much greater quantities than Lotus, so it may just be a volume of components needed to manufacture issue. Lotus is geared up to be able to produce cars in much smaller quantities, which in this case, may actually work to their advantage. They don't have to compete for hundreds of thousands of parts orders.

 

[Tonyshepp]

All of those manufacturers make vehicles in much greater quantities than Lotus, so it may just be a volume of components needed to manufacture issue. Lotus is geared up to be able to produce cars in much smaller quantities, which in this case, may actually work to their advantage. They don't have to compete for hundreds of thousands of parts orders.

Can probably buy the parts they need of Alibabas alternative to eBay

 

[Notlob42]

Any new tech advances that are developed by Lotus Technologies will be owned and controlled by Geely, not Lotus. It sets up a future groundwork for continued economic and tech control from a country we’re not at all friendly with. These guys are not doing anything to benefit any western business.

 

[TomE]

Very unlikely Lotus will become a Chinese state controlled business. Geely isn't state owned or controlled. Founder and chairman Li Shufu defied the Chinese government in founding Geely as China's first non state-owned car manufacturer and has fought to maintain it as a private company. He's an entrepreneur, critic of various aspects of industrial policy and an independent non-party member of the Chinese National People's Congress.

Lotus have a big hill to climb and communication is clearly in need of major improvement. The dealer network and experience also needs to improve a lot. I'm less worried about quality improvements, given the big investment in hiring people and building the new factory. The design and engineering side is already strong.

 

[Notlob42]

Very unlikely Lotus will become a Chinese state controlled business. Geely isn't state owned or controlled. Founder and chairman Li Shufu defied the Chinese government in founding Geely as China's first non state-owned car manufacturer and has fought to maintain it as a private company. He's an entrepreneur, critic of various aspects of industrial policy and an independent non-party member of the Chinese National People's Congress.

Lotus have a big hill to climb and communication is clearly in need of major improvement. The dealer network and experience also needs to improve a lot. I'm less worried about quality improvements, given the big investment in hiring people and building the new factory. The design and engineering side is already strong.

I think it’s fairly clear how far a dissenting view goes in China.

 

[TomE]

If the Chinese government wanted to take over the privately owned car manufacturers then they would have done. The fact they haven't maybe indicates a more complex political/industrial system than news soundbites might suggest.

 

[Eagle7]

There's also the fact that Geely is a shareholder, an investor, as opposed to flat out ownership. Matt has already said Lotus is making their own decisions and running things their way. Yes they had to submit a business plan to Geely since they were bankrolling most of it, but I don't see Lotus as just the property of Geely or China now.

Going electric is going to change much more than just the power plant for the car. It's going to completely change the automobile industry as we've known it. I believe design and style will become a much bigger aspect of success than it has in the past, not that it wasn't significant before, but power and chassis development is going to pretty much standardize, and rather quickly I would expect. The type of engine, its horsepower, or what type of drivetrain it has is likely to fade into the past as being of any marketing significance or importance. Aerodynamics, body design, interior design, and just general styling is going to become the crown jewels in the near future, and that's where Lotus is already ahead of the pack, as evident in the Evija. The Emira is the confirmation; they're on the right path.

I think this time, Lotus has the winning formula for a very successful future.

 

[Pegasi]

Any new tech advances that are developed by Lotus Technologies will be owned and controlled by Geely, not Lotus. It sets up a future groundwork for continued economic and tech control from a country we’re not at all friendly with. These guys are not doing anything to benefit any western business.

A lot of the components come from all over the world. Edelbroock Supercharger, Toyota Engine, German AMG Engine, not sure about the transmission.

Most of the chassis technology and production are 100% Lotus. My guess is that although Geely is a majority stakeholder Lotus keeps control of the chassis handling R&D. Gav said other companies have come close but they still rule. Of course that's his opinion.

 

[VL3X]

There will be delays. I've heard FE V6 US deliveries have already been pushed from "Spring 2022" to July and now it's October '22 for early deposit holders. I imagine that will get pushed even further into Q4 2022. By then, FE I4 AMG and custom spec Emiras will likely be available to configure with all the additional colors, ADAS, and other options we should have been able to get to begin with.

 

[Notlob42]

Exactly, the conventional cars, which will eventually be a small fraction of the total production under the brand (for example, Porsche. The SUV’s are bread and butter). The Wuhan facility is anticipated to produce up to 150k units per year, all electric. Regardless of whether or not the company wants to avoid government control, at the end of the day the Party will win out.

As I’ve said before, I’m not pulling my deposit. But I’m definitely a little apprehensive about putting my money towards a high value purchase which benefits a political/economic/military adversary. And no, I don’t think it’s xenophobic. It’s just politics.

A bit off topic here but…with “assurances” that there will be no ADM, I still wonder what effect inflation will have on the MSRP next year when many of us might see an allocation. Any thought on this can of worms with the rusty lid and tetanus warning labels?

 

[Eagle7]

Anyone ordering in 2022 for a 2023 model year car is most likely going to see the effect of inflation on the MSRP. I don't see any way to avoid that. For current deposit holders of the V6 FE however, we should be okay. We'll know once we actually place our orders which is supposed to be in early January.

 

[frazzer]

@Eagle7 Geely don't control how Volvo operates, the design and engineering still happens in Torslanda. A few years back I knew people at Torslanda, some quite senior whilst their EV program was in its early stages. One of them was setting up the new plant in Chengdu, he hated the place , was in the middle of nowhere apparently. I've walked around some of Torslanda (it's huge), been to a lot of the buildings, practically no sign of Chinese ownership. Hardly any posters of Xi on the walls at all.

 

[TomE]

There's also the fact that Geely is a shareholder, an investor, as opposed to flat out ownership. Matt has already said Lotus is making their own decisions and running things their way. Yes they had to submit a business plan to Geely since they were bankrolling most of it, but I don't see Lotus as just the property of Geely or China now.

Going electric is going to change much more than just the power plant for the car. It's going to completely change the automobile industry as we've known it. I believe design and style will become a much bigger aspect of success than it has in the past, not that it wasn't significant before, but power and chassis development is going to pretty much standardize, and rather quickly I would expect. The type of engine, its horsepower, or what type of drivetrain it has is likely to fade into the past as being of any marketing significance or importance. Aerodynamics, body design, interior design, and just general styling is going to become the crown jewels in the near future, and that's where Lotus is already ahead of the pack, as evident in the Evija. The Emira is the confirmation; they're on the right path.

I think this time, Lotus has the winning formula for a very successful future.

The other aspect that will be increasingly important in future is driving technology. Like it or not, ADAS and other "driver aids" are going to become mandatory and are a step on the path to autonomous vehicles. Governments will justify it on the basis of accident reduction, more efficient use of road space, accessibility and so on.

So Lotus adding things like LIDAR to the Type 132 and investing in partnerships with auto-tech companies will be a good strategy to sit alongside their aerodynamics and lightweight (for an EV) expertise.