Race to the first i4

[Tokion]

Hi guys, i just have booked an appointment to take a test drive on i4 emira within the next 24 hours. Let me know something you want me to ask/try on the i4 model.

(1) Are all QC issues on China delivered I4 cars resolved?
(2) If ‘no’ to above question. Are future software updates expected to resolve further issues and also to ‘update’ (improve) the cars?
(3) Are there still already imported i4 cars available for sale to (new) customers in China?
(4) Are i4 cars continuing to arrive in China on a monthly (or more irregular) basis from Lotus UK?
(5) Roughly how many i4 cars are already in China.

(I realize you may not be able to get replies to all of these questions ;-)

THANK YOU

 

[0pirates0]

(1) Are all QC issues on China delivered I4 cars resolved?
(2) If ‘no’ to above question. Are future software updates expected to resolve further issues and also to ‘update’ (improve) the cars?
(3) Are there still already imported i4 cars available for sale to (new) customers in China?
(4) Are i4 cars continuing to arrive in China on a monthly (or more irregular) basis from Lotus UK?
(5) Roughly how many i4 cars are already in China.

(I realize you may not be able to get replies to all of these questions ;-)

THANK YOU

i can answer some of your questions now:
(1) no, and the problem of engine water inlet happened again on a blue emira yesterday. It is hard to figure out what's really going on now since: 1. the jet lag between UK and China. 2. there's a one week national holiday and the Chinese mechanics are off
(2) my salesman said they had summarized and sent the errors to UK, but they do not know if them had been fixed
(3) Yes, but if you order i4 now in China, you will suffer from the long waiting time(same as other international customers) and price hike (about 8k usd more)
(4)they are arriving based on the agreement between Geely and Lotus (first batch of i4 will belong Chinese customers). But believe me, it is not as good as it sounds like. Most emira purchaser in China are experiencing the slogan "lots of troubles, usually serious". i4 emira is a great model, but just not ready hitting the market. From the feedback from owners, the check engine light is on after 300km driving. And if you use high pressure water gun to wash the vehicle, make sure not to point at its rear air intake, that will damage your ECU permanently (1 of delivered emira had met this problem). I will draw it below. Right now we are concerned that how it will survive in the rain.
(5) i dont know. I'd guess under 20.

 

[Cutting42]

i can answer some of your questions now:
(1) no, and the problem of engine water inlet happened again on a blue emira yesterday. It is hard to figure out what's really going on now since: 1. the jet lag between UK and China. 2. there's a one week national holiday and the Chinese mechanics are off
(2) my salesman said they had summarized and sent the errors to UK, but they do not know if them had been fixed
(3) Yes, but if you order i4 now in China, you will suffer from the long waiting time(same as other international customers) and price hike (about 8k usd more)
(4)they are arriving based on the agreement between Geely and Lotus (first batch of i4 will belong Chinese customers). But believe me, it is not as good as it sounds like. Most emira purchaser in China are experiencing the slogan "lots of troubles, usually serious". i4 emira is a great model, but just not ready hitting the market. From the feedback from owners, the check engine light is on after 300km driving. And if you use high pressure water gun to wash the vehicle, make sure not to point at its rear air intake, that will damage your ECU permanently (1 of delivered emira had met this problem). I will draw it below. Right now we are concerned that how it will survive in the rain.
(5) i dont know. I'd guess under 20.

Thanks for this detail. I guess I am less bothered about delays to my i4 if they are pausing to fix these issues. I am now very glad that China got the first batch. Nothing against China, I enjoyed my time there a lot but just glad we are not the crash test dummies. It is also amusing that for cars constructed in the UK, the first v6 deliveries were in mainland Europe and the first i4's are in China

 

[Tokion]

i can answer some of your questions now:
(1) no, and the problem of engine water inlet happened again on a blue emira yesterday. It is hard to figure out what's really going on now since: 1. the jet lag between UK and China. 2. there's a one week national holiday and the Chinese mechanics are off
(2) my salesman said they had summarized and sent the errors to UK, but they do not know if them had been fixed
(3) Yes, but if you order i4 now in China, you will suffer from the long waiting time(same as other international customers) and price hike (about 8k usd more)
(4)they are arriving based on the agreement between Geely and Lotus (first batch of i4 will belong Chinese customers). But believe me, it is not as good as it sounds like. Most emira purchaser in China are experiencing the slogan "lots of troubles, usually serious". i4 emira is a great model, but just not ready hitting the market. From the feedback from owners, the check engine light is on after 300km driving. And if you use high pressure water gun to wash the vehicle, make sure not to point at its rear air intake, that will damage your ECU permanently (1 of delivered emira had met this problem). I will draw it below. Right now we are concerned that how it will survive in the rain.
(5) i dont know. I'd guess under 20.

Thanks 0pirates0 for your replies. Your answers are very helpful & useful indeed.

As most veterans know, the art is in the ability to ask the right questions (if anyone here knows what I am talking about).

And I will definitely be more diplomatic than pointing out who were the ‘crash-test-dummies’

Personally I am still bending my level of patience to hope for a problem free car when it finally arrives

 

[Nova]

China taking on the first batches of newly launched products is common for the Chinese manufacturers we work with that also export abroad. They do this not only to give Chinese customers the feeling that they are more important, but the manufacturers are better able to handle any early production issues since the customer base is local, the local laws/regulations are well understood, and customer service costs are much lower. They want the feedback from issues discovered from these early units to improve the units headed to other markets around the world, where the consumer protection laws are varied and remediation costs can be very high.

 

[0pirates0]

I have finished my test driving yesterday and uploaded the video on Youtube. The test driving car is i4, blue exterior, alcantara interior with sports suspension and Cup2. It is the only test driving i4 in my city. There's around 5 test driving i4s in China and total delivered i4 is around 40~50.
Unfortunately, I was caught in the heavy rain right after driving out of the parking lot. Moreover, the traffic is kinda busy. Thus I didnt try track mode or drift on the road. The performance of sports suspension and Cup2 is beyond my expectation driving in heavy rain. My salesman was very supportive and answered most of my questions, although I think the sales team is kinda out of line with the latest issues and errors of emira. He had not heard any feedback from the damaged ECU after car washing or other engine issues.
I did not have the chance to drive on high way since the traffic jam and heavy rain. The speed limit in the city is 60. Speeding cameras are everywhere.
I was told the test driving car is totally fine. Previous test drivers tried track mode even though the manual book said do not use it before 1000 km. It had been driven for 700km without any issues.
I have recorded the whole driving experience and uploaded on youtube(English version). Im heading to North America today and i was told that I would see my emira when Im back(before the end of 2023).

 

[Tokion]

I have finished my test driving yesterday and uploaded the video on Youtube. The test driving car is i4, blue exterior, alcantara interior with sports suspension and Cup2. It is the only test driving i4 in my city. There's around 5 test driving i4s in China and total delivered i4 is around 40~50.
Unfortunately, I was caught in the heavy rain right after driving out of the parking lot. Moreover, the traffic is kinda busy. Thus I didnt try track mode or drift on the road. The performance of sports suspension and Cup2 is beyond my expectation driving in heavy rain. My salesman was very supportive and answered most of my questions, although I think the sales team is kinda out of line with the latest issues and errors of emira. He had not heard any feedback from the damaged ECU after car washing or other engine issues.
I did not have the chance to drive on high way since the traffic jam and heavy rain. The speed limit in the city is 60. Speeding cameras are everywhere.
I was told the test driving car is totally fine. Previous test drivers tried track mode even though the manual book said do not use it before 1000 km. It had been driven for 700km without any issues.
I have recorded the whole driving experience and uploaded on youtube(English version). Im heading to North America today and i was told that I would see my emira when Im back(before the end of 2023).

Thanks 0pirates0 for uploading the video(s) of your i4 test drive. Again very useful. A pity you had to drive in heavy rain, but this at least confirms that the Cup 2s are capable of performing as long as the driver is careful and go relatively slow (and no “track mode” ).

A couple of questions again:

(1) Does your personal impressions from your test drive make you stay with your order and go through with your purchase? (I guess this also includes your impressions from what you have heard about other QC problems in China and the misfortunes of other Emira i4 owners - including the “destroyed by water” ECU saga)? I am saying this on the background that I am also staying put with my order despite of all bad rumors and the endless wait for i4 delivery. I am also very accustomed to turbocharged cars; so I am not “scared” by hearing about some lag and also typical (sucking?) sounds that a turbo engine will produce. I am mostly worried about the 8G-DCT gearbox set-up and possibly AMG’s unwillingness to let Lotus adjust it further.

(2) When did you first order your Emira i4 (I assume this is also a “First Edition”, perhaps with a Chinese market twist? You seem to indicate that you may have made your final decision to buy (or to go ahead) at the time of this test-drive, and I believe you said that you were told that your car will be delivered to you within the end of this year 2023. Did I get all of this right?

Thanks once more for all your useful feedback. I really appreciate it, and I believe your experiences are helpful for everyone here on our Forum.

 

[lynchy73]

Deposit in China is quite low but it’s non refundable. You could cancel but you would have to move the deposit to another Lotus or lose it.

 

[Kimmax]

And if you use high pressure water gun to wash the vehicle, make sure not to point at its rear air intake, that will damage your ECU permanently (1 of delivered emira had met this problem). I will draw it below. Right now we are concerned that how it will survive in the rain.

I can confirm this on V6 manual. Exactly the same spot has been identified by the dealer and it continuously produced errors. On mine we wrapped the ECU watertight until Lotus figures out a real fix. I already expected it to be a wide-spread problem with me catching it early because I put a lot of miles on it. Driving in the rain usually wasn’t a problem, but dew overnight was.

 

[virtualmacho]

And if you use high pressure water gun to wash the vehicle, make sure not to point at its rear air intake, that will damage your ECU permanently (1 of delivered emira had met this problem). I will draw it below. Right now we are concerned that how it will survive in the rain.

On the right side as shown in your picture, or on the left side? I recall seeing the ECU on the left side of the crashed Emira...

I can confirm this on V6 manual. Exactly the same spot has been identified by the dealer and it continuously produced errors. On mine we wrapped the ECU watertight until Lotus figures out a real fix. I already expected it to be a wide-spread problem with me catching it early because I put a lot of miles on it. Driving in the rain usually wasn’t a problem, but dew overnight was.

I would like to propose the same preventive measures to my dealer. Did you just wrap it with kitchen wrap then put it in a plastic bag, or was it something a bit more sophisticated?

 

[eriegz]

On the right side as shown in your picture, or on the left side? I recall seeing the ECU on the left side of the crashed Emira...


I would like to propose the same preventive measures to my dealer. Did you just wrap it with kitchen wrap then put it in a plastic bag, or was it something a bit more sophisticated?

I assumed that they meant some kind of wrap that can withstand the heat that the ECU puts out?

 

[Nova]

Looks like the ECM is on the left side of the vehicle, accessible by removing the left rear wheel arch. Seems incomprehensible to me that the ECM isn't weather-sealed if it is being installed in the engine bay area in general.

 

[Kimmax]

On the right side as shown in your picture, or on the left side? I recall seeing the ECU on the left side of the crashed Emira...


I would like to propose the same preventive measures to my dealer. Did you just wrap it with kitchen wrap then put it in a plastic bag, or was it something a bit more sophisticated?

For me it’s on the left side. It’s just wrapped in some plastic. So far it doesn’t show any signs of heat problems (at least short term) and the replacement ECU is already ready to be installed. We just wanted to make sure we fixed the problem before destroying another ECU. Well the current one is still working but not in good condition hence the replacement. Before the new one gets installed I’ll make sure some real solution capable of dealing with the heat is available. Long term I see another recall coming to actually waterproof the ECUs..

 

[Cutting42]

I had a bit of a rant on the Lotus chat today, not that it did much good to be honest as they clearly know nothing or have been told to say nothing but I got some stuff off my chest anyway.

The only thing confirmed is that the i4's have been delayed, don't know how long and why but keep looking for the checkout email in my inbox/spam box.

That is all.

 

[Andy H]

I had a bit of a rant on the Lotus chat today, not that it did much good to be honest as they clearly know nothing or have been told to say nothing but I got some stuff off my chest anyway.

The only thing confirmed is that the i4's have been delayed, don't know how long and why but keep looking for the checkout email in my inbox/spam box.

That is all.

Disappointing but not entirely surprising. I won’t hold my breath for my promised November build slot then. I can only hope that whatever the cause of the latest delays, it will ultimately translate into a better, more reliable and sorted car when it finally rolls of the production line.

 

[JimH]

I'm out (but in again) - see other thread.....

 

[schuey100]

Rang customer service today to get an update, answered phone in 3 rings, can’t remember the chaps name but polite, dont see the negative views on service there tbh, anyway my I4 should be built this month but said today will be November, asked about factory collection in December and they were unsure about actual delivery dates and if at all in December so a bit in the air. I’m in no rush, would rather March delivery now so we’ll see, did confirm my price is £3700 less than the current otr price though which is a bonus (asked about fixed service costs for 3 years, again was’t sure was the answer, hopefully these answers will be sorted soon)!

 

[Tokion]

Rang customer service today to get an update, answered phone in 3 rings, can’t remember the chaps name but polite, dont see the negative views on service there tbh, anyway my I4 should be built this month but said today will be November, asked about factory collection in December and they were unsure about actual delivery dates and if at all in December so a bit in the air. I’m in no rush, would rather March delivery now so we’ll see, did confirm my price is £3700 less than the current otr price though which is a bonus (asked about fixed service costs for 3 years, again was’t sure was the answer, hopefully these answers will be sorted soon)!

Just like you schuey100 I have also been promised a November build slot, although I am in Japan, and the i4 has to be shipped here and go through homologation for this country; which will add a few months to the actual delivery (I am lucky if I receive it by the end of March 2024).

The important thing now for us “die-hard-i4” disciplined queue-spot holders is to keep our faith in that the i4 continues to be real, and that hopefully the recent delays are caused by fixing QC issues and other issues discovered by the friendly reviewers.

Reading the recent Road&Track (USA) review by Matt Farah (a reviewer that I usually enjoy) will of course cause even the most strong-hearted of us to shiver.

But fear not:
«He who laughs last, laughs best»

I am confident that our cars will be splendid and brilliant

 

[Andy H]

Rang customer service today to get an update, answered phone in 3 rings, can’t remember the chaps name but polite, dont see the negative views on service there tbh, anyway my I4 should be built this month but said today will be November, asked about factory collection in December and they were unsure about actual delivery dates and if at all in December so a bit in the air. I’m in no rush, would rather March delivery now so we’ll see, did confirm my price is £3700 less than the current otr price though which is a bonus (asked about fixed service costs for 3 years, again was’t sure was the answer, hopefully these answers will be sorted soon)!

I'm in a similar position - happy to wait for an early spring delivery if there are delays. Especially if there's a chance that some of the issues are addressed. What's your stance on test drives? Are you happy to proceed to checkout without driving? I tested the V6 earlier this year and I was happy with most aspects but some of the review comments around the DCT operation has got me nervous. I'd want to know how it behaves myself.

Also, did you see the thread about the higher servicing costs? No one has been able to get any clarity on PAYG costs and reasons for the big discrepancy with the V6 3 year pack.

 

[DJManc]

I'm in a similar position - happy to wait for an early spring delivery if there are delays. Especially if there's a chance that some of the issues are addressed. What's your stance on test drives? Are you happy to lock in without driving? I tested the V6 earlier this year and I was happy with most aspects but some of the review comments around the DCT operation has got me nervous. I'd want to know how it behaves myself.

Also, did you see the thread about the higher servicing costs? No one has been able to get any clarity on PAYG costs and reasons for the big discrepancy with the V6 3 year pack.

I would strongly encourage the first few who get their checkout email for an i4 (in UK) to push back and get absolute clarification of of the service requirements/maintenance schedule and PAYG costs, so we all know where we stand on this matter before getting ripped off. The current costs simply do not add up when Mercedes AMG can charge nearly half the amount!