Suspension: Touring and Sports options

[Dabjbr]

So I’m assuming geometry difference means sport and tour have different camber and toe settings? And then another alignment setup for sport/gy?

Honestly, that seems a bit odd to me. I’d think it makes more sense for 2 alignments based on tour or sport. Or maybe 3 alignments: tour, sport and track. Track would max out negative camber and possibly front toe out.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[haaaake]

No they don't It can be seen in many YouTube videos that Cup 2s are even slower than a Pilot Sport 4 in the wet, not to mention the 4S, which would be the equivalent to the Goodyears. And we are talking multiple seconds on a short track. Just look it up. But maybe you are right and all racing teams are dumb for using rain tires in the rain.

Edit: Just one example: Tire Test
Time and breaking performance are worlds apart in the wet.

So yeah you don’t have any first hand experience not surprising. Cup2s are very much not a racing tire. Race teams use tires not too far off a cup 2 tread pattern for wet conditions.

There really isn’t much point in continuing this discussion you will clearly never be driving the car quickly let alone in wet conditions.

 

[haaaake]

I think it's more of an issue of heat. I've driven a GT4 with cold Cup2s and I would certainly recommend getting some heat in them before any sort of spirited driving. Haven't tried any in the rain.

Cup2s are not anywhere near a race slick or something. It’s no different than any nice high end street tire. Everything from RE71R to Cup2 does perfectly fine in the wet and before they are up to optimal temps. There is absolutely much more grip when optimal but they aren’t anywhere remotely “dangerous” to daily drive a car on as long as you aren’t seeing freezing temps. Every tire on earth performs better when they are up to optimal temps. And every tire has optimal temp ranges, but the Cup2 range really isn’t that narrow.

The A052 has a much narrower optimal range and still does perfectly fine in the wet. Anyway moving on.. enjoy your Goodyears.

 

[haaaake]

To bring this back to suspension a bit...

Goodwood update:
I had a great chat to Gavin and also Will, the engineer in charge of stability control calibration (and also the same chap that brought Harry the red Emira in his video)

There are indeed 3 alignment set ups for each tyre and chassis choice. However it shouldn't be difficult to change between the cup2 and SS set up on the sports chassis. Something to be aware of if you're changing tyre type throughout the your ownership of the car.

Difference between sports and tour is different dampers, spring rates and geometry, Nothing else.

Will post anything else as I remember it.

Nice thanks for sharing I hope that is accurate. People are definitely making a bigger deal over suspension choice than they need to be then. Lotus really should just give people this info from the jump though but I guess OEMs tend to be fairly tight lipped until a car is out there in the world.

 

[FederGigant]

So yeah you don’t have any first hand experience not surprising. Cup2s are very much not a racing tire. Race teams use tires not too far off a cup 2 tread pattern for wet conditions.

There really isn’t much point in continuing this discussion you will clearly never be driving the car quickly let alone in wet conditions.

I just saw that you are from California, so you probably really don't know what "wet" or "rain" means. That explains it. You are probably also one of those guys who think that the Goodyears or Pilot Sports 4s are all season tires, right?
Just because I don't have video footage from my own experiences doesn't mean that I have no experience with them. Could you please explain why the Cup 2s are 3 seconds slower in the wet than the PS4s on a 50 second track? That's roughly the same time difference that a Golf GTI and a Porsche GT3 RS would have on this track when driving on the same tires and same conditions. And there are many more videos like this out there.

 

[Leonard]

I think we need to agree you are both right in respect to your geographical locations and move on
The biggest issue is the cold when combined with a poor traction surface.
The old Cup 2s were very very bad in cold wet conditions. The newer ones were designed to be used all year-round, but still don't like the cold. UK winter driving is slow and often sideways in a RWD car when you forget what rubber you have on

 

[Porter]

I think we need to agree you are both right in respect to your geographical locations and move on
The biggest issue is the cold when combined with a poor traction surface.
The old Cup 2s were very very bad in cold wet conditions. The newer ones were designed to be used all year-round, but still don't like the cold. UK winter driving is slow and often sideways in a RWD car when you forget what rubber you have on

Also true in much of the US. California drivers have very little perspective on what driving conditions look like on the average February morning in the Midwest or Northeast. Hell, a good chunk of the upper Midwest historically needed electric engine block heaters in order to even start their cars in the winter. The southern California yearly low temp hits what, the mid-60s F?

 

[Leonard]

The southern California yearly low temp hits what, the mid-60s F?

Yup, basically temps that we get all giddy about here in the UK in Summer

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

Cup2s are not "lethal" in cold or wet conditions. At all. Anyone that says that hasn't driven them. They are quite good in the wet actually.

Exactly as @FederGigant stated, Cup2´s are a killer on wet road.

Here was my post about them three months ago:

What are you driving until the Emira arrives?

Finally back from the shop after 2 months bc of a wiring harness issue

www.emiraforum.com

 

[Lotustoronto]

How would you compare the suspension of the Evora 400 vs Emira touring or sport?

 

[NicolasB]

How would you compare the suspension of the Evora 400 vs Emira touring or sport?

Touring as far as I know, the other model is like sport

 

[TomE]

How would you compare the suspension of the Evora 400 vs Emira touring or sport?

The Evora 400 suspension is between Evora S (= Emira Touring) and Evora GT410/US GT (=Emira Sports) but is much closer to Touring. If you couldn't find an Evora S to test drive then an Evora 400 would be a close enough match on ride & handling.

 

[KJD]

I’ve posted this before to help with understanding the hierarchy of Evora suspension.

The Emira Tour setup should be like the VFB in the above, the Sport like the VFS

 

[TomE]

Not quite. Emira Touring = EFS + ERSL + ELSR and Emira Sports = VFS + VRSL + VRSR. VFB/VRBL/VRBR is the Evora 400 spec and sits between the two. The diagram implies Evora 400 is closer to Evora GT410 but it's actually closer to Evora S.

 

[Porter]

Not quite. Emira Touring = EFS + ERSL + ELSR and Emira Sports = VFS + VRSL + VRSR. VFB/VRBL/VRBR is the Evora 400 spec and sits between the two. The diagram implies Evora 400 is closer to Evora GT410 but it's actually closer to Evora S.

I'm having trouble parsing this, sorry Tom. I didn't inherently understand from the diagram that any hierarchical relationship exists between these Evora setups, unless there's a guide that explains the lettering scheme? I can make wild guesses, but it would be great if there's actually a key somewhere.

Also, are you mentioning the "Emira = ABCD" to indicate your understanding of the general match between the Emira variants and the styles of damping associated with each Evora product, or are you implying that the Emira dampers will actually be labeled in a comparable way?

 

[Lotustoronto]

I test drove a 400, and wouldn't want the suspension any softer than that. No GT to test out. I was happy with the 400,

The Evora 400 suspension is between Evora S (= Emira Touring) and Evora GT410/US GT (=Emira Sports) but is much closer to Touring. If you couldn't find an Evora S to test drive then an Evora 400 would be a close enough match on ride & handling.

I did test drive a 400, and I found it very good, but I would not want it any softer. I guess I will wait and see from UK Emira owners how it compares and which one is closest to the Evora 400. Seems like I will have some extra time with these delay's anyways.

 

[TomE]

I'm having trouble parsing this, sorry Tom. I didn't inherently understand from the diagram that any hierarchical relationship exists between these Evora setups, unless there's a guide that explains the lettering scheme? I can make wild guesses, but it would be great if there's actually a key somewhere.

Also, are you mentioning the "Emira = ABCD" to indicate your understanding of the general match between the Emira variants and the styles of damping associated with each Evora product, or are you implying that the Emira dampers will actually be labeled in a comparable way?

Sorry, my explanation wasn't as clear as it could have been. The letter designations are Lotus part references and the letter/number code under each one is the manufacturer's part number. There's probably a way of decoding these into the technical specifications for each damper, but I haven't found it.

The main point I was trying to make is if the Evora S suspension setup is Specification A and Evora GT410/GT is Specification C, then Emira Touring is almost identical to A and Emira Sports is almost identical to C. This is in terms of the overall suspension setup and ride & handling, rather than the technical specification of each damper.

The secondary point was that Evora 400 setup is Specification B, which sits between A and C but is much closer to A than to C. Hence driving an Evora 400 is a reasonable approximation to Emira Touring if you can't find an Evora S.

Hope that clarifies things.

 

[Porter]

Hope that clarifies things.

Absolutely, and thank you!

 

[KJD]

Not quite. Emira Touring = EFS + ERSL + ELSR and Emira Sports = VFS + VRSL + VRSR. VFB/VRBL/VRBR is the Evora 400 spec and sits between the two. The diagram implies Evora 400 is closer to Evora GT410 but it's actually closer to Evora S.

Cheers Tom.

So Emira Tour will be a bit softer than my old Evora 400, which re-confirms my choice of Sport for the Emira will suit me as I found the 400 a bit too soft.

Btw, do any other pedants like me think ELSR is a typo?
Should be ERSR - Evora Rear S(port) Right to fit with the code.

 

[Porter]

Makes me wonder what the V stands for in the internal nomenclature.