Suspension: Touring and Sports options

[emiraspain]

Every reviewer, every customer...asking themselves the same question.... sport or touring.... shouldn't be an option.

I personally think Lotus messed it up with touring and sport...

If i was in charge... I would have done this:
Touring. 375 HP. softer set up.... bit more economical...slightly less loud exhaust.... slightly softer seats.... FE price 77k plus registration. Options to upgrade...paying of course.

Sport 400 HP, firmer set up, sportier standard seats.....louder exhaust..... tyres firmer..... and 85k....plus registration
Similar to the 718 base and S.

You know most people would perhaps have gone that bit extra and paid that bit extra for that bit extra power ect. More profit for Lotus..... easier choice, if you even have to have one.
IF they didnt do this, and clearly they didnt.... they should not have added this stupid question "sports" or "touring", its NOT a question anyone wants to be asked and you will always feel maybe you made the wrong decision. Why put this in the minds of your customers before and after purchase..... first mistake.

FOR handling its a none issue for 99% of users in 99% of occasions. Ive driven it on track and the professional driver even said it makes no "real" discernable difference.... but yes some on here will disagree.

Just dont see why you would add this extra layer of confusion.. Its enough to go with an easier less confusing option elsewhere..

 

[Forlorn]

Every reviewer, every customer...asking themselves the same question.... sport or touring.... shouldn't be an option.

I personally think Lotus messed it up with touring and sport...

If i was in charge... I would have done this:
Touring. 375 HP. softer set up.... bit more economical...slightly less loud exhaust.... slightly softer seats.... FE price 77k plus registration. Options to upgrade...paying of course.

Sport 400 HP, firmer set up, sportier standard seats.....louder exhaust..... tyres firmer..... and 85k....plus registration
Similar to the 718 base and S.

You know most people would perhaps have gone that bit extra and paid that bit extra for that bit extra power ect. More profit for Lotus..... easier choice, if you even have to have one.
IF they didnt do this, and clearly they didnt.... they should not have added this stupid question "sports" or "touring", its NOT a question anyone wants to be asked and you will always feel maybe you made the wrong decision. Why put this in the minds of your customers before and after purchase..... first mistake.

FOR handling its a none issue for 99% of users in 99% of occasions. Ive driven it on track and the professional driver even said it makes no "real" discernable difference.... but yes some on here will disagree.

Just dont see why you would add this extra layer of confusion.. Its enough to go with an easier less confusing option elsewhere..

I agree that Lotus should not have offered two suspension set ups. Stupid decision and has confused all.

I also don’t agree with Lotus that they couldn’t have offered like Porsche/McLaren selectable suspension system. Absolutely nonsense. “We are specialists we only do Passive systems” absolute bollocks.

Why are they right and the likes of Ferrari/Porsche/McLaren et al who are successful - are they wrong?

 

[TomE]

Every reviewer, every customer...asking themselves the same question.... sport or touring.... shouldn't be an option.

I personally think Lotus messed it up with touring and sport...

If i was in charge... I would have done this:
Touring. 375 HP. softer set up.... bit more economical...slightly less loud exhaust.... slightly softer seats.... FE price 77k plus registration. Options to upgrade...paying of course.

Sport 400 HP, firmer set up, sportier standard seats.....louder exhaust..... tyres firmer..... and 85k....plus registration
Similar to the 718 base and S.

You know most people would perhaps have gone that bit extra and paid that bit extra for that bit extra power ect. More profit for Lotus..... easier choice, if you even have to have one.
IF they didnt do this, and clearly they didnt.... they should not have added this stupid question "sports" or "touring", its NOT a question anyone wants to be asked and you will always feel maybe you made the wrong decision. Why put this in the minds of your customers before and after purchase..... first mistake.

FOR handling its a none issue for 99% of users in 99% of occasions. Ive driven it on track and the professional driver even said it makes no "real" discernable difference.... but yes some on here will disagree.

Just dont see why you would add this extra layer of confusion.. Its enough to go with an easier less confusing option elsewhere..

If they had done different power levels and other options differences for Touring and Sports it would have been even more confusing. I want the Touring suspension so why should I get less power?

I agree they haven't helped by offering two options but they have made it clear the purpose of each. Touring will suit the majority of road/daily drive users. Sports will be OK on the road too, provided your road surfaces aren't too bad.

They could have done one option somewhere between the two (or close to Touring) and done Sports on a later variant. They did that for Elise/Exige/Evora.

Lotus have always been purists about suspension design and Gav Kershaw is adamant a passive system is the most appropriate for Lotus sports cars.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Every reviewer, every customer...asking themselves the same question.... sport or touring.... shouldn't be an option.

I personally think Lotus messed it up with touring and sport...

If i was in charge... I would have done this:
Touring. 375 HP. softer set up.... bit more economical...slightly less loud exhaust.... slightly softer seats.... FE price 77k plus registration. Options to upgrade...paying of course.

Sport 400 HP, firmer set up, sportier standard seats.....louder exhaust..... tyres firmer..... and 85k....plus registration
Similar to the 718 base and S.

You know most people would perhaps have gone that bit extra and paid that bit extra for that bit extra power ect. More profit for Lotus..... easier choice, if you even have to have one.
IF they didnt do this, and clearly they didnt.... they should not have added this stupid question "sports" or "touring", its NOT a question anyone wants to be asked and you will always feel maybe you made the wrong decision. Why put this in the minds of your customers before and after purchase..... first mistake.

FOR handling its a none issue for 99% of users in 99% of occasions. Ive driven it on track and the professional driver even said it makes no "real" discernable difference.... but yes some on here will disagree.

Just dont see why you would add this extra layer of confusion.. Its enough to go with an easier less confusing option elsewhere..

I think the touring / sport suspension issue really only affects early depositors. So likely 300-400 customers?

The issue is the delay in test drives for customers. Had they gotten the demo cars out earlier so you can test drive which suspension suits you best, this would be a non issue. I like that they are different, the idea is good and the car drives well, the execution of the plan is what has been faltering.

 

[Pugwash]

I have ordered touring. Today I test drove sports as I was not able to book a drive in a touring set up before end of Nov. I am (currently) Nov build, Dec delivery. I am happy that I made the right decision based on todays drive.

 

[Evotion]

Ah, interesting. Myself and some others felt it was more than fine, and some even not that firm at all relative to rivals.
Very subjective of course.

What did you not like about the sports suspension?

 

[Pugwash]

It’s not that I didn’t like it, but found it a bit fidgety over the rough. For context I have three other Lotus, a Caterham and a Jaguar so am used to different suspension set ups for different uses. I used to have an Evora S too. I understand now where Harry was coming from.

 

[Evotion]

Ah right..

I like that!
Makes a car feel more alive, more of an experience. However, it is not an everday car for me so I can live with it. I might feel different if it was my only car.

MY only Lotus comparison was driving an Exige 410 Sport in anger. At first I thought it was lethal.. Ha. Then I got used to it and fought it was an absolute hoot.

 

[Leonard]

Every reviewer, every customer...asking themselves the same question.... sport or touring.... shouldn't be an option.

I personally think Lotus messed it up with touring and sport...

If i was in charge... I would have done this:
Touring. 375 HP. softer set up.... bit more economical...slightly less loud exhaust.... slightly softer seats.... FE price 77k plus registration. Options to upgrade...paying of course.

Sport 400 HP, firmer set up, sportier standard seats.....louder exhaust..... tyres firmer..... and 85k....plus registration
Similar to the 718 base and S.

You know most people would perhaps have gone that bit extra and paid that bit extra for that bit extra power ect. More profit for Lotus..... easier choice, if you even have to have one.
IF they didnt do this, and clearly they didnt.... they should not have added this stupid question "sports" or "touring", its NOT a question anyone wants to be asked and you will always feel maybe you made the wrong decision. Why put this in the minds of your customers before and after purchase..... first mistake.

FOR handling its a none issue for 99% of users in 99% of occasions. Ive driven it on track and the professional driver even said it makes no "real" discernable difference.... but yes some on here will disagree.

Just dont see why you would add this extra layer of confusion.. Its enough to go with an easier less confusing option elsewhere..

Sold
IF they couldn't have just added a really good adjustable set up.
Or even done a Porsche. Basically std (touring) PASM and a Sports (track)

 

[Lotustoronto]

Sold
IF they couldn't have just added a really good adjustable set up.
Or even done a Porsche. Basically std (touring) PASM and a Sports (track)

It basically is like Porsche - You can choose either PASM or SPASM. Clicking the button just makes the car stiffer and basically a track mode only. Never - even on a track day did I firm up the dampers in both the Spyder or the 992 (both had SPASM - its standard on GT4/Spyder). I think I did once on track to see if it made a difference, alas I am not a good enough driver to exploit the difference, although I did notice a change.

Now PASM vs SPASM on the 992 - I drove both options - it is noticeable. Non sport suspension is much more geared to grand touring type of vehicle. I preferred SPASM.

 

[Eagle7]

IF they had an unlimited budget, IF there was an ICE future, THEN they could have done what everyone wanted; a £150k mini supercar for £60k. Right.

The reality is Geely gave them 1/10 the budget to develop and build the Emira than has been invested in developing the electric portfolio. The Emira is their way of saying goodbye to all that's gone before; the last ICE car, the last manual transmission, the last supercharger, the last turbo, the last 6 cylinder, the last 4 cylinder... the end of all of that and that era.

Grow up, handle it. If it's not what you want, buy something else. Stop complaining. The opportunity to buy ANY new ICE car is rapidly coming to a close. Ten years from now the automotive world is going to be a very different place than it is today. Of course the Emira isn't perfect, but I'm not spending the kind of money that would give me a perfect car. I don't care. I want the last ICE Lotus, regardless of whether it's perfect or not. I want a car in my garage that looks stunning, with a supercharged V6 that makes wonderful noise, and a manual transmission. I'll deal with any issues that crop up.

 

[Leonard]

IF they had an unlimited budget, IF there was an ICE future, THEN they could have done what everyone wanted; a £150k mini supercar for £60k. Right.

The reality is Geely gave them 1/10 the budget to develop and build the Emira than has been invested in developing the electric portfolio. The Emira is their way of saying goodbye to all that's gone before; the last ICE car, the last manual transmission, the last supercharger, the last turbo, the last 6 cylinder, the last 4 cylinder... the end of all of that and that era.

Grow up, handle it. If it's not what you want, buy something else. Stop complaining. The opportunity to buy ANY new ICE car is rapidly coming to a close. Ten years from now the automotive world is going to be a very different place than it is today. Of course the Emira isn't perfect, but I'm not spending the kind of money that would give me a perfect car. I don't care. I want the last ICE Lotus, regardless of whether it's perfect or not. I want a car in my garage that looks stunning, with a supercharged V6 that makes wonderful noise, and a manual transmission. I'll deal with any issues that crop up.

Just discussing no need to get your knickers in a twist
Plenty of cars half the price of the Emira have 'intelligent' suspension options. Plenty at the same price. It is what it is of course and nobody would say otherwise.
Just ironic that in trying to make the Emira more accessible to more customers they have actually made the purchase experience more confusing. Which I believe we were alluding to

 

[Eagle7]

Just discussing no need to get your knickers in a twist
Plenty of cars half the price of the Emira have 'intelligent' suspension options. Plenty at the same price. It is what it is of course and nobody would say otherwise.
Just ironic that in trying to make the Emira more accessible to more customers they have actually made the purchase experience more confusing. Which I believe we were alluding to

"Just discussing" again, and again, and again, and again again again....... Those 'other cars' don't handle like a Lotus either. It wasn't confusing to me. The man himself, Gavan said he engineering the car to be touring for street, sport for track. You've had and driven enough cars Leonard to understand the difference; a suspension tuned for track is going to be a bit stiffer for the street. If you don't mind that, get sport. You only have two choices here.

 

[roundincircles]

Every reviewer, every customer...asking themselves the same question.... sport or touring.... shouldn't be an option.

I personally think Lotus messed it up with touring and sport...

If i was in charge... I would have done this:
Touring. 375 HP. softer set up.... bit more economical...slightly less loud exhaust.... slightly softer seats.... FE price 77k plus registration. Options to upgrade...paying of course.

Sport 400 HP, firmer set up, sportier standard seats.....louder exhaust..... tyres firmer..... and 85k....plus registration
Similar to the 718 base and S.

You know most people would perhaps have gone that bit extra and paid that bit extra for that bit extra power ect. More profit for Lotus..... easier choice, if you even have to have one.
IF they didnt do this, and clearly they didnt.... they should not have added this stupid question "sports" or "touring", its NOT a question anyone wants to be asked and you will always feel maybe you made the wrong decision. Why put this in the minds of your customers before and after purchase..... first mistake.

FOR handling its a none issue for 99% of users in 99% of occasions. Ive driven it on track and the professional driver even said it makes no "real" discernable difference.... but yes some on here will disagree.

Just dont see why you would add this extra layer of confusion.. Its enough to go with an easier less confusing option elsewhere..

It's not confusing as it's a choice between one or the other. OK, that choice would be easier if test drives were available in each option. That's the mess up, no test drives.

 

[Cachaco131]

I'm not sure how much better will an active suspension be. I've that optionality in my F80 and I don't think it makes a huge difference. It goes from firm to excessively firm. Haven't even felt the need to play with it much and don't recall actively thinking about changing it depending on conditions.

 

[benjh1028]

IF they had an unlimited budget, IF there was an ICE future, THEN they could have done what everyone wanted; a £150k mini supercar for £60k. Right.

The reality is Geely gave them 1/10 the budget to develop and build the Emira than has been invested in developing the electric portfolio. The Emira is their way of saying goodbye to all that's gone before; the last ICE car, the last manual transmission, the last supercharger, the last turbo, the last 6 cylinder, the last 4 cylinder... the end of all of that and that era.

Grow up, handle it. If it's not what you want, buy something else. Stop complaining. The opportunity to buy ANY new ICE car is rapidly coming to a close. Ten years from now the automotive world is going to be a very different place than it is today. Of course the Emira isn't perfect, but I'm not spending the kind of money that would give me a perfect car. I don't care. I want the last ICE Lotus, regardless of whether it's perfect or not. I want a car in my garage that looks stunning, with a supercharged V6 that makes wonderful noise, and a manual transmission. I'll deal with any issues that crop up.

Not certain I am hearing complaining as much as I am hearing reasonable and constructive dialogue around an option that is a bit confusing because of mixed reactions from reviewers. Others are simply making comparisons to other manufacturers offerings or just sharing their thoughts on how else Lotus could have launched the product that has brought us all together on this forum.

And while no car is perfect, $100k is substantial - and subjectively more so to others - so asking for the most bang for the buck/usability is reasonable. We are all here because we are excited and agree that the Emira is a special car, warts and all, which will always bring about thoughts of "what if..." or "I like how this manufacturer does it...". Personally I really enjoy hearing others thoughts and insights. It's why I'm here.

 

[Pegasi]

In order to satisfy track enthusiasts (and Lotus purists) the Sport suspension had to be offered. In order to make a profit the Touring suspension had to be offered. It seems like every manufacturer has said the same thing, enthusiasts cars are not profitable. Now whether or not that is true I don't know. Lotus as a small volume manufacturer is only producing one car at the moment, an enthusiast car. Lotus isn't the girl or guy you marry, Lotus is the girl or guy you date.

@roundincircles said the key statement, test drives not available for early adopters. And being a Lotus early adopter isn't like being a regular early adopter, you really have to go in focused and patient.

The Sports suspension has one goal and one goal only, to maximize the Cups which for any car the tire is the most critical part of grip.

 

[Eagle7]

Not certain I am hearing complaining as much as I am hearing reasonable and constructive dialogue around an option that is a bit confusing because of mixed reactions from reviewers. Others are simply making comparisons to other manufacturers offerings or just sharing their thoughts on how else Lotus could have launched the product that has brought us all together on this forum.

And while no car is perfect, $100k is substantial - and subjectively more so to others - so asking for the most bang for the buck/usability is reasonable. We are all here because we are excited and agree that the Emira is a special car, warts and all, which will always bring about thoughts of "what if..." or "I like how this manufacturer does it...". Personally I really enjoy hearing others thoughts and insights. It's why I'm here.

You've only recently joined the forum so you wouldn't know the history of complaining that's gone on in here, but I can see your point as a newly joined member.

Here's a video from The Smoking Tire podcast with Matt Windle, the director of Lotus at Hethel, Russell Carr the head of the team that designed the Emira body and interior, and Gavan Kershaw the director in charge of chassis development and handling. Gavan does quite a bit of talking and it will give you a lot of insights into what went into the design of the Emira.

 

[Pugwash]

In order to satisfy track enthusiasts (and Lotus purists) the Sport suspension had to be offered. In order to make a profit the Touring suspension had to be offered. It seems like every manufacturer has said the same thing, enthusiasts cars are not profitable. Now whether or not that is true I don't know. Lotus as a small volume manufacturer is only producing one car at the moment, an enthusiast car. Lotus isn't the girl or guy you marry, Lotus is the girl or guy you date.

@roundincircles said the key statement, test drives not available for early adopters. And being a Lotus early adopter isn't like being a regular early adopter, you really have to go in focused and patient.

The Sports suspension has one goal and one goal only, to maximize the Cups which for any car the tire is the most critical part of grip.

The car I drove was on sports suspension with Eagles not the Cups. Not sure if Cups would have made it more “fidgety” but I understand in the cold and damp would make it more exciting!

 

[benjh1028]

You've only recently joined the forum so you wouldn't know the history of complaining that's gone on in here, but I can see your point as a newly joined member.

Here's a video from The Smoking Tire podcast with Matt Windle, the director of Lotus at Hethel, Russell Carr the head of the team that designed the Emira body and interior, and Gavan Kershaw the director in charge of chassis development and handling. Gavan does quite a bit of talking and it will give you a lot of insights into what went into the design of the Emira.

And I have been part of the Lotustalk community since 2007 as opposed to 1-year here, and have owned an Elise and Exige. I have also been through the Lotus waiting game. Newly joined doesn't mean there is not familiarity.