Suspension: Touring and Sports options

[JimH]

I seem to recall saying in July 2021 that if they'd called the choices "Road" and "Track" instead then most of this debate may never have happened.....

 

[Forlorn]

Why I wanted to test the sports suspension is that there are certain roads in the North of England - particularly our poorly looked after “B” roads across the dales and North Yorkshire Moors that a stiffly suspended car doesn’t cope to well with. Similarly, bad urban roads on our towns are difficult to cope with on uncompliant suspension.

Now in some countries like Germany, France and Switzerland and indeed in USA (I have driven in the North and South Carolina) are well surfaced.
The sport suspension I am sure will be fine on these roads as will Tour.
But, the North East of England is not so good.?

I also do Track my cars both in the UK and Europe (Spa Nurburgring etc) so getting there and back is also to me on Motorway and fast A roads an important consideration on ride on this type of road.
Even the guy who took me on my test, was avoiding pot holes and road grates, I thought that was eye opening.

I don’t think it should have been too difficult to try out both suspension set-ups prior to selecting and ordering, but that was never the option or opportunity prior to lock-in here in the UK.

I believe but maybe I am wrong (and you will let me know I am sure) that in the USA you are getting the option to try one or the other from the road show before lock in. Us poor guys in the UK are not getting that option.
So I think it is a little unfair to asking us to “get over it” when we have really been very poorly looked after.

 

[Eagle7]

And I have been part of the Lotustalk community since 2007 as opposed to 1-year here, and have owned an Elise and Exige. I have also been through the Lotus waiting game. Newly joined doesn't mean there is not familiarity.

Something I wouldn't know unless you told me, so thank you for that. The waiting game is one thing, it's quite another as to what goes on during the waiting. It's been fatiguing in here the last 8 months or so.

 

[Eagle7]

Why I wanted to test the sports suspension is that there are certain roads in the North of England - particularly our poorly looked after “B” roads across the dales and North Yorkshire Moors that a stiffly suspended car doesn’t cope to well with. Similarly, bad urban roads on our towns are difficult to cope with on uncompliant suspension.

Now in some countries like Germany, France and Switzerland and indeed in USA (I have driven in the North and South Carolina) are well surfaced.
The sport suspension I am sure will be fine on these roads as will Tour.
But, the North East of England is not so good.?

I also do Track my cars both in the UK and Europe (Spa Nurburgring etc) so getting there and back is also to me on Motorway and fast A roads an important consideration on ride on this type of road.
Even the guy who took me on my test, was avoiding pot holes and road grates, I thought that was eye opening.

I don’t think it should have been too difficult to try out both suspension set-ups prior to selecting and ordering, but that was never the option or opportunity prior to lock-in here in the UK.

I believe but maybe I am wrong (and you will let me know I am sure) that in the USA you are getting the option to try one or the other from the road show before lock in. Us poor guys in the UK are not getting that option.
So I think it is a little unfair to asking us to “get over it” when we have really been very poorly looked after.

I can understand the frustration, and yes, Lotus would have done themselves and their customers well to have put in the effort to at least have demo cars for test drive much earlier than they have. However, it sounds like you have enough experience to already know what the majority of your driving is going to involve. Based on your description, I would get the touring chassis and spend the money on an extra set of track wheels with track rubber. I've not physically been on the ring, but I've driven it in video games and it's brutal; even in a video game. I have driven cars on asphalt tracks that had grooved concrete inserts in certain corners, and the transition into and out of those two surfaces is jarring.

If the Lotus guy taking you on the test drive was avoiding jarring sections of the road, that tells you all you need to know. Get the touring suspension, and a track set of wheels with great track tires for track days.

 

[emiraspain]

It's not confusing as it's a choice between one or the other. OK, that choice would be easier if test drives were available in each option. That's the mess up, no test drives.

well, not to argue... but...at the same time, I've nothing else to do so....

no other car company does it like this to my knowledge and we are all so used to porsches model....which is the same as many car companies.... even landrover for example.
A base model, x power, x trim..... a higher more expensive model q power.... a few fit and trim pieces on the inside and out to make it more desirable and worth the extra $$$s. Its a VERY profitable proven model, hence Im just saying, why change it to this new model, which wont bring in more profit and maybe sends people away as they dont know which is best, the same as the jeans buyer in the shop with 20 different colour, finished, fits etc that leaves unhappy.

I disagree in the confusion part....I have driven both set ups myself for more time than most and to me and to many many on here and reviewers, it has been, and still is confusing. I 100% dont know which model is right for me and the roads I will be driving on.. I understand LOTUS should have the cars out there to test, but I disagree that this should even be necessary... I dont want to have to choose, I want a car that can do both grand touring and track, within limits.

When you test drive a car, you dont expect to have to test drive two of them, not unless they are from different manufacturers etc. I've never done this and I dont really want to have to do it either and if the test route is different to your local routes or track and has traffic, or its raining etc, how will you ever know, until you buy it. Its a huge waste of time and your dealer maybe 3 hours away, or 7 hours away as in my case, hence you see the impracticality of it. It is 100% confusing and unnecessary IMHO....

As a dealer too, you dont expect to have to buy two of the cars to be able to run two test drives and dedicate double the time and then NO DOUBT, have someone come back to you later on and say they got the wrong set up... can they change...
I just feel it is totally the wrong way to go. It also makes your car harder to sell used market, as you are splitting your customer base....
I JUST DONT LIKE IT>>> haha stop it.... never again.
Ohhh i do have the same crap decision to make with the caterham, but thats a bit different and clearer....

 

[Forlorn]

I can understand the frustration, and yes, Lotus would have done themselves and their customers well to have put in the effort to at least have demo cars for test drive much earlier than they have. However, it sounds like you have enough experience to already know what the majority of your driving is going to involve. Based on your description, I would get the touring chassis and spend the money on an extra set of track wheels with track rubber. I've not physically been on the ring, but I've driven it in video games and it's brutal; even in a video game. I have driven cars on asphalt tracks that had grooved concrete inserts in certain corners, and the transition into and out of those two surfaces is jarring.

If the Lotus guy taking you on the test drive was avoiding jarring sections of the road, that tells you all you need to know. Get the touring suspension, and a track set of wheels with great track tires for track days.

Unfortunately I have been locked in since last year on Sports suspension. I was a pre-reveal customer with my dealer. So early delivery was on offer. But, since Harry’s Metcalf assessment of Sport vs Tourer I have demanded a test drive prior to agreement for build.

None has been available until last week. I have been unilaterally by LCS pushed out to April Build May/June delivery 2023. From Nov/Dec 2022.

Now I find myself not loving the sport set up - but with the knowledge that if I change to tourer I will certainly be further pushed down the list to god knows when.

So you can see how frustrated us UK people are with the Situation and saga of this car.

I agree with many on this thread, Lotus should have provided a standard car set up for the FE. Like Tom says this was what happened on Elise and Evora and sports versions came later.

 

[BeHappy]

Why I wanted to test the sports suspension is that there are certain roads in the North of England - particularly our poorly looked after “B” roads across the dales and North Yorkshire Moors that a stiffly suspended car doesn’t cope to well with. Similarly, bad urban roads on our towns are difficult to cope with on uncompliant suspension.

Now in some countries like Germany, France and Switzerland and indeed in USA (I have driven in the North and South Carolina) are well surfaced.
The sport suspension I am sure will be fine on these roads as will Tour.
But, the North East of England is not so good.?

I also do Track my cars both in the UK and Europe (Spa Nurburgring etc) so getting there and back is also to me on Motorway and fast A roads an important consideration on ride on this type of road.
Even the guy who took me on my test, was avoiding pot holes and road grates, I thought that was eye opening.

I don’t think it should have been too difficult to try out both suspension set-ups prior to selecting and ordering, but that was never the option or opportunity prior to lock-in here in the UK.

I believe but maybe I am wrong (and you will let me know I am sure) that in the USA you are getting the option to try one or the other from the road shownbefore lock in. Us poor guys in the UK are not getting that option.
So I think it is a little unfair to asking us to “get over it” when we have really been very poorly looked after.

Unfortunately I have been locked in since last year on Sports suspension. I was a pre-reveal customer with my dealer. So early delivery was on offer. But, since Harry’s Metcalf assessment of Sport vs Tourer I have demanded a test drive prior to agreement for build.

None has been available until last week. I have been unilaterally by LCS pushed out to April Build May/June delivery 2023. From Nov/Dec 2022.

Now I find myself not loving the sport set up - but with the knowledge that if I change to tourer I will certainly be further pushed down the list to god knows when.

So you can see how frustrated us UK people are with the Situation and saga of this car.

I agree with many on this thread, Lotus should have provided a standard car set up for the FE. Like Tom says this was what happened on Elise and Evora and sports versions came later.

As we all saw on the Harry video they literally have two boxes one marked up touring one marked up sports - don’t understand why Lotus can’t let the early depositors to change without a ridiculously long delay to your order and like they changed Harry’s without penalty @Forlorn what will you do keep with sports or change your order ? and risk even further delays.
Did you find it too harsh I’ve also chosen sports but I’m used to firm suspension

 

[Forlorn]

As we all saw on the Harry video they literally have two boxes one marked up touring one marked up sports - don’t understand why Lotus can’t let the early depositors to change without a ridiculously long delay to your order and like they changed Harry’s without penalty @Forlorn what will you do keep with sports or change your order ? and risk even further delays.
Did you find it too harsh I’ve also chosen sports but I’m used to firm suspension

The problem I found was the JCT600 route was truly awful. I posted about this in test drive thread, but it was predominantly urban route, heavily trafficked ring road and littered with roundabouts, traffic lights and to add to it the timing was school kick out time. There was only roughly 1 mile of B road and that had traffic. So lots of road grates, pot holes and repair work being carried out.
The car was sport and very choppy - but on the main A road/Motorway it was fine and handled that well.
In reality I would stick to sport - due to the track work and learn to live with the potential B road issues.

 

[1stczechemira]

My Emira is fitted with the Sport suspension. I ordered the combo with Goodyears to be safe on the road when it is wet. For me the Emira isn't a daily driver, I want to have the last ICE Lotus sports car with a V6, supercharger, manual transmission etc. (brillant thoughts by @Eagle7 in this thread!). Despite I don't suppose a track use of the car, the Sport suspension fits together with what I want from it.

The roads in our country are not always the first class. Driven my first 2000 kms, the suspension was uncomfortable on maybe between 5 to 10 percent of the kilometers driven. These were the roads which remember the tanks in the times of the Soviet occupation back in 1968 (yes, we still have them!). I think the Touring suspension wouldn't help there.

I think I can profit from the Sport suspension (being safer at higher speeds) on up to 95 percent of the kilometers driven with the Emira and I won't lose anything on the remaining five percent. Therefore, my decision and also my recommendation, go for the Sport suspension!

 

[roundincircles]

well, not to argue... but...at the same time, I've nothing else to do so....

no other car company does it like this to my knowledge and we are all so used to porsches model....which is the same as many car companies.... even landrover for example.
A base model, x power, x trim..... a higher more expensive model q power.... a few fit and trim pieces on the inside and out to make it more desirable and worth the extra $$$s. Its a VERY profitable proven model, hence Im just saying, why change it to this new model, which wont bring in more profit and maybe sends people away as they dont know which is best, the same as the jeans buyer in the shop with 20 different colour, finished, fits etc that leaves unhappy.

I disagree in the confusion part....I have driven both set ups myself for more time than most and to me and to many many on here and reviewers, it has been, and still is confusing. I 100% dont know which model is right for me and the roads I will be driving on.. I understand LOTUS should have the cars out there to test, but I disagree that this should even be necessary... I dont want to have to choose, I want a car that can do both grand touring and track, within limits.

When you test drive a car, you dont expect to have to test drive two of them, not unless they are from different manufacturers etc. I've never done this and I dont really want to have to do it either and if the test route is different to your local routes or track and has traffic, or its raining etc, how will you ever know, until you buy it. Its a huge waste of time and your dealer maybe 3 hours away, or 7 hours away as in my case, hence you see the impracticality of it. It is 100% confusing and unnecessary IMHO....

As a dealer too, you dont expect to have to buy two of the cars to be able to run two test drives and dedicate double the time and then NO DOUBT, have someone come back to you later on and say they got the wrong set up... can they change...
I just feel it is totally the wrong way to go. It also makes your car harder to sell used market, as you are splitting your customer base....
I JUST DONT LIKE IT>>> haha stop it.... never again.
Ohhh i do have the same crap decision to make with the caterham, but thats a bit different and clearer....

I don't think you are confused. You have spent time driving both cars and can't make up your mind. You are indecisive. Buy both but in those different colours, which you think you should have but can't decide which one.


But seriously, I have had a number of cars with switchable variable dampers and could never decide which setting was best. So the Lotus approach removes that fussing about that variable dampers induce.

 

[Evotion]

I still can't believe anybody ordered touring suspension on a Lotus.
Its like having red wine with fish.

 

[roundincircles]

I still can't believe anybody ordered touring suspension on a Lotus.
Its like having red wine with fish.

The thing is you won't spill the red wine with touring suspension.

 

[Speedluvver]

I still can't believe anybody ordered touring suspension on a Lotus.
Its like having red wine with fish.

Having driven the Sport suspension, I do... over a fast bumpy B road, the touring will be faster as it won't skip as much over the bumps.. My exige is on nitrons (which are one way), and on 'track' settings, the car just doesn't flow in the same way - I felt that a little on my test drive. Touring will be perfect for road trips in the UK for me. I also had a long conversation with Gavan on this on my factory tour - he recommended touring for my usage

 

[KaizokuCoder]

I still can't believe anybody ordered touring suspension on a Lotus.
Its like having red wine with fish.

Odd you should say that. I ordered my Emira in accordance with recommendations from Lotus. I assume they know what they are talking about. They said I should get touring, so touring is what I ordered.
Who should I trust more than Lotus, since I can't try them both for myself before locking in my order?

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

My Emira is fitted with the Sport suspension. I ordered the combo with Goodyears to be safe on the road when it is wet. For me the Emira isn't a daily driver, I want to have the last ICE Lotus sports car with a V6, supercharger, manual transmission etc. (brillant thoughts by @Eagle7 in this thread!). Despite I don't suppose a track use of the car, the Sport suspension fits together with what I want from it.

The roads in our country are not always the first class. Driven my first 2000 kms, the suspension was uncomfortable on maybe between 5 to 10 percent of the kilometers driven. These were the roads which remember the tanks in the times of the Soviet occupation back in 1968 (yes, we still have them!). I think the Touring suspension wouldn't help there.

I think I can profit from the Sport suspension (being safer at higher speeds) on up to 95 percent of the kilometers driven with the Emira and I won't lose anything on the remaining five percent. Therefore, my decision and also my recommendation, go for the Sport suspension!

I chose exactly your same combo, Sports + Eagle, and for the same reasons.
I have the GT410 Sport, with Sports + Cup 2´s.
It's even more stiff supposedly than Emira Sport, and 95% of the time not uncomfortable on Spanish roads, and my back is not in good shape at all.
Just my personal experience

 

[1stczechemira]

I chose exactly your same combo, Sports + Eagle, and for the same reasons.
I have the GT410 Sport, with Sports + Cup 2´s.
It's even more stiff supposedly than Emira Sport, and 95% of the time not uncomfortable on Spanish roads, and my back is not in good shape at all.
Just my personal experience

The same reasons + the same roads (there is no difference between CZ and ESP roads ) = the same SPORT suspension!

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

Having driven the Sport suspension, I do... over a fast bumpy B road, the touring will be faster as it won't skip as much over the bumps.. My exige is on nitrons (which are one way), and on 'track' settings, the car just doesn't flow in the same way - I felt that a little on my test drive. Touring will be perfect for road trips in the UK for me. I also had a long conversation with Gavan on this on my factory tour - he recommended touring for my usage

I can't believe you Brits are having to decide whether to fix the suspension or FIX THE ROADS!!

 

[ADC]

I can't believe you Brits are having to decide whether to fix the suspension or FIX THE ROADS!!

Fix the roads... with what? Our current national pass-time seems to be lighting taxpayer money and/or personal savings on fire.

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

Fix the roads... with what? Our current national pass-time seems to be lighting taxpayer money and/or personal savings on fire.

OK then, this proves Lotus is right then by adapting the suspension to the roads

 

[ADC]

OK then, this proves Lotus is right then by adapting the suspension to the roads

Yeah... it's only the desperate machismo of my MLC split personality that still has me entertaining the sport setup (for a car that will be a daily). My more sensible and grown-up alter-ego is fairly convinced that tour is the right setup for day-to-day mostly-road use in the UK.

Nobody has mentioned the wheel gap in a while... maybe I should resume fretting about that as well