The greatest bargain or a rip off?

[emiraspain]

Point taken and I know what you are saying.... although its 40,000$.... but yes to me, its Nissan vs Lotus, its a weird looking Japanese attempt at a cheap supercar, vs Lotus's.
To me there is no comparison. I think 90% of people in the market for the Emira will never get the Z... same as most in the market for a 718 will not get a Miata....

although... looking at this interior... some of it is passable, but this bit? Cheapest plastic...
I am sure if I were 30 years old (I wish) then the Z would be of interest to me.... but for the more descerning buyer, ie older and with a bit more disposable, I would not want to see this..

 

[Lotustoronto]

Point taken and I know what you are saying.... although its 40,000$.... but yes to me, its Nissan vs Lotus, its a weird looking Japanese attempt at a cheap supercar, vs Lotus's.
To me there is no comparison. I think 90% of people in the market for the Emira will never get the Z... same as most in the market for a 718 will not get a Miata....

How about if the Miata was 394 HP with better performance than a 718 GTS? Might take a few sales I would think. What holds back the Miata vs Boxster is of course brand, but performance is also a big one. Bring up the performance and there will be people that take it.

 

[magmared]

Hahaha. Big Leagues.

Lotus being on your radar has more to do with your echo chamber than anything else.

Chunky thought he was doing that with the Esprit. I mean, you can’t get much bigger than being the Bond car, twice.

Yes, I guess it could an echo chamber issue.
It’s not a very common car brand here. People know Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, Supra, 86, Z cars more due to them being popular through media and a variety of reasons. Dodge got a comeback through Fast and Furious, same for Z.

Even amongst my car nut friends, Lotus is a name not heard of. Which leads me to question how much of a car nut they really are tbh, but I guess some brands are more popular in some countries that others.

 

[Balboa]

#1 unless price starts creeping close to $120K for a Base optioned like an FE

 

[emiraspain]

How about if the Miata was 394 HP with better performance than a 718 GTS? Might take a few sales I would think. What holds back the Miata vs Boxster is of course brand, but performance is also a big one. Bring up the performance and there will be people that take it.

For many people the miata is underpowered and so for many an extra 100 hp would be enough to get them into it. However for me, being a car snob.... its still a Mazda, same as the Z is still a Nissan, same as my ionic 5 is still a Hyundai, although it doesnt feel like it, and there is no way I ever see myself in a Miata now.
Apart from the snobbery, I also think it looks a little crappy, the hard top makes it look like a toy car and its small too. I appreciate from my westfield days, small cars are more fun, 100%, but the miata looks..... I dont know, it just looks like something my 7 year old would play with on the carpet (If I had a 7 year old, which I dont).
I have a dutch friend who has one (not a 7 year old, although he does, but a miata), he thought about buying my Elise cup 250, but in the end he stuck with his miata special edition, with modified breaks, exhaust and Ohhhhlins, he loves it, but as my french friend said, its still a mazda. I think he will get a caterham in the end, but in the EU a new one costs you about 75k!!!!!..... imagine that!
I know car enjoyment should just be about the engine (turbo's not great for me), the steering, gear change and what have you, the same as my wife (dont have one) should be all about personality..... but, this is not the real truth no matter how many people say it is. People want a good looking car, people who can afford it, want to be seen in something cool....... and I want to date a sports illustrated cover girl..

 

[Lotustoronto]

For many people the miata is underpowered and so for many an extra 100 hp would be enough to get them into it. However for me, being a car snob.... its still a Mazda, same as the Z is still a Nissan, same as my ionic 5 is still a Hyundai, although it doesnt feel like it, and there is no way I ever see myself in a Miata now.
Apart from the snobbery, I also think it looks a little crappy, the hard top makes it look like a toy car and its small too. I appreciate from my westfield days, small cars are more fun, 100%, but the miata looks..... I dont know, it just looks like something my 7 year old would play with on the carpet (If I had a 7 year old, which I dont).
I have a dutch friend who has one (not a 7 year old, although he does, but a miata), he thought about buying my Elise cup 250, but in the end he stuck with his miata special edition, with modified breaks, exhaust and Ohhhhlins, he loves it, but as my french friend said, its still a mazda. I think he will get a caterham in the end, but in the EU a new one costs you about 75k!!!!!..... imagine that!
I know car enjoyment should just be about the engine (turbo's not great for me), the steering, gear change and what have you, the same as my wife (dont have one) should be all about personality..... but, this is not the real truth no matter how many people say it is. People want a good looking car, people who can afford it, want to be seen in something cool....... and I want to date a sports illustrated cover girl..

I agree... ok so maybe the next gen Miata if they do a good enough re-design lol... But yes brand/looks/rarity are obviously very important in a sports car. I am just arguing they could be close (re-design coming with more power)

 

[lion shf]

Guys the Miata is TINY. Lots of people won’t feel safe in it (as a daily)

 

[NicolasB]

Guys the Miata is TINY. Lots of people won’t feel safe in it (as a daily)

I want sat in one that a friend owned, and I physically was too tall to be able to even drive it, and I'm only 6 ft 3 inches.

 

[lion shf]

I want sat in one that a friend owned, and I physically was too tall to be able to even drive it, and I'm only 6 ft 3 inches.

6 1 here filled it up (2009)

 

[Nova]

Guys the Miata is TINY. Lots of people won’t feel safe in it (as a daily)

I can! #AsianPrivilege

 

[emiraspain]

I agree... ok so maybe the next gen Miata if they do a good enough re-design lol... But yes brand/looks/rarity are obviously very important in a sports car. I am just arguing they could be close (re-design coming with more power)

But...... 1. no, as it will always be a mazda and even, even if it were more powerful and even if it were better looking than a 718 lets say, it would still be no for me... M A Z D A.... looks better with the spaces, but its not as good as L O T U S.
2. Porsche spends an absolute fortune in every aspect of their cars, from design, to comfort, from interior materials, to their showroom design. There is as much chance as Mazda catching them in the sports car world as there is of Leicester winning the premier league.... with all the money the big teams can spend. And even if they do it (which they did) people will still not change from supporting the big teams.
A mazda interior, never mind exterior, will never ever get to porsche levels, the same as a Renault will never get to Bentley levels, it simply cant afford to.

Its a kudos thing too.... "look at me, I have money, I have been/am successful" and Mazda says "look at me, I like driving, maybe a better driver than you, but I cant afford a porsche" although clearly some probably can.
To each person, in each phase of their lives, different cars/manufacturer / models say different things to them and about them. There have been times when I would never have considered a porsche / bmw / ferrari as I have thought their owners were complete...xxxxx's, but now, while I still think that, I have joined them so I must be too haha. Ive never thought of Lotus in that way though......
However, I'd not "drop down" to a mazda.... its simply not special. However, if I had a cheap old westfield and had got fed up of getting wet and fixing the hand made piece of badly put together xxxxxxxx, then an MX5 with a few mods would make sense.
Anyway, I've said it before, but all this snobery (guilty) and great cars and designs etc, the best car I have ever driven is a westfield with a ford zetec 180HP engine, mazda gear box....... give me a day on deserted country roads (ie no one to see me in my ferrari) in any other car or this, and I would happily take this.... especially if it wasn't raining

 

[eriegz]

But...... 1. no, as it will always be a mazda and even, even if it were more powerful and even if it were better looking than a 718 lets say, it would still be no for me... M A Z D A.... looks better with the spaces, but its not as good as L O T U S.
2. Porsche spends an absolute fortune in every aspect of their cars, from design, to comfort, from interior materials, to their showroom design. There is as much chance as Mazda catching them in the sports car world as there is of Leicester winning the premier league.... with all the money the big teams can spend. And even if they do it (which they did) people will still not change from supporting the big teams.
A mazda interior, never mind exterior, will never ever get to porsche levels, the same as a Renault will never get to Bentley levels, it simply cant afford to.

Its a kudos thing too.... "look at me, I have money, I have been/am successful" and Mazda says "look at me, I like driving, maybe a better driver than you, but I cant afford a porsche" although clearly some probably can.
To each person, in each phase of their lives, different cars/manufacturer / models say different things to them and about them. There have been times when I would never have considered a porsche / bmw / ferrari as I have thought their owners were complete...xxxxx's, but now, while I still think that, I have joined them so I must be too haha. Ive never thought of Lotus in that way though......
However, I'd not "drop down" to a mazda.... its simply not special. However, if I had a cheap old westfield and had got fed up of getting wet and fixing the hand made piece of badly put together xxxxxxxx, then an MX5 with a few mods would make sense.
Anyway, I've said it before, but all this snobery (guilty) and great cars and designs etc, the best car I have ever driven is a westfield with a ford zetec 180HP engine, mazda gear box....... give me a day on deserted country roads (ie no one to see me in my ferrari) in any other car or this, and I would happily take this.... especially if it wasn't raining

Aren't Porsches ultimately just cars for people who can't afford Ferraris? And aren't Ferraris ultimately just cars for people who can't afford Buggatis? And aren't...

 

[Lotustoronto]

But...... 1. no, as it will always be a mazda and even, even if it were more powerful and even if it were better looking than a 718 lets say, it would still be no for me... M A Z D A.... looks better with the spaces, but its not as good as L O T U S.
2. Porsche spends an absolute fortune in every aspect of their cars, from design, to comfort, from interior materials, to their showroom design. There is as much chance as Mazda catching them in the sports car world as there is of Leicester winning the premier league.... with all the money the big teams can spend. And even if they do it (which they did) people will still not change from supporting the big teams.
A mazda interior, never mind exterior, will never ever get to porsche levels, the same as a Renault will never get to Bentley levels, it simply cant afford to.

Its a kudos thing too.... "look at me, I have money, I have been/am successful" and Mazda says "look at me, I like driving, maybe a better driver than you, but I cant afford a porsche" although clearly some probably can.
To each person, in each phase of their lives, different cars/manufacturer / models say different things to them and about them. There have been times when I would never have considered a porsche / bmw / ferrari as I have thought their owners were complete...xxxxx's, but now, while I still think that, I have joined them so I must be too haha. Ive never thought of Lotus in that way though......
However, I'd not "drop down" to a mazda.... its simply not special. However, if I had a cheap old westfield and had got fed up of getting wet and fixing the hand made piece of badly put together xxxxxxxx, then an MX5 with a few mods would make sense.
Anyway, I've said it before, but all this snobery (guilty) and great cars and designs etc, the best car I have ever driven is a westfield with a ford zetec 180HP engine, mazda gear box....... give me a day on deserted country roads (ie no one to see me in my ferrari) in any other car or this, and I would happily take this.... especially if it wasn't raining

How do you explain Honda NSX? - All I am saying is never say never... While I do not think the re-design of a Miata will be NSX levels at all. But a mid-tier brand like Mazda does have the ability to surprise if they want to. Don't forget the original rx-7 from the 1990's is considered and loved by many enthusiast. When one shows up (in original condition, not all moded) at cars & coffee it does get respect. Is it on the same level as an air cooled Porsche or Ferrari, no of course not. Sometimes the Japanese brands can surprise the Euro elites. Not very often, but possible. Snobbery aside, I appreciate the engineering to build cars like these. While many would include the Nissan GTR - I am not a fan of it's look. Same as the Z, supra... Those are just cars to make profits, and feel too normal imo. But sometimes, like the NSX, Lexus LFA, RX-7, Original Supra (not this current BMW ) from the 1990's, they bring something special and different. Probably not going to happen to the next gen Miata tho...lol

 

[Pegasi]

I haven't driven a Supra or Z. I drove an Evora GT on a track, if the Emira is even close to that it will be a blast to drive. I would have to then drive a Supra or Z on a track and see.

Sometimes the difference between products can only be experienced when it is used for its design purpose (Lotus is cornering feel and confidence inspiring handling). All of these sports cars are good. But just comparing HP and 0-60 times is limited IMO.

One thing is true, most reviews of the Emira talked about how you have to pilot the car correctly in order to experience the intended design of the handling. It's more like "art" than just a "tool".

 

[lion shf]

It's more like "art" than just a "tool".

O brother

 

[Pegasi]

It's more like "art" than just a "tool".

O brother

Another way to say this is that the car responds to small inputs. Is that any better?

 

[lion shf]

Another way to say this is that the car responds to small inputs. Is that any better?

You be you bro

 

[Pegasi]

You be you bro

This is not really me, it's my interpretation of reviews since I haven't driven the car. I do have an appreciation of how reviews have attempted to describe the feel of the Emira. This thread is about whether the car is a bargain or a rip off. My opinion is that the Lotus is designed to have a superior feel (among other things) than a Z or a Supra depending on what you appreciate in cars. Yes the looks set the Emira apart but I anticipate a superior driving feel that isn't just about straight line acceleration will make this car a bargain in the long run.

 

[lion shf]

This is not really me, it's my interpretation of reviews since I haven't driven the car. I do have an appreciation of how reviews have attempted to describe the feel of the Emira. This thread is about whether the car is a bargain or a rip off. My opinion is that the Lotus is designed to have a superior feel (among other things) than a Z or a Supra depending on what you appreciate in cars. Yes the looks set the Emira apart but I anticipate a superior driving feel that isn't just about straight line acceleration will make this car a bargain in the long run.

I agree without the art comment

 

[Adam Brouillard]

How do you explain Honda NSX? - All I am saying is never say never... While I do not think the re-design of a Miata will be NSX levels at all. But a mid-tier brand like Mazda does have the ability to surprise if they want to. Don't forget the original rx-7 from the 1990's is considered and loved by many enthusiast. When one shows up (in original condition, not all moded) at cars & coffee it does get respect. Is it on the same level as an air cooled Porsche or Ferrari, no of course not. Sometimes the Japanese brands can surprise the Euro elites. Not very often, but possible. Snobbery aside, I appreciate the engineering to build cars like these. While many would include the Nissan GTR - I am not a fan of it's look. Same as the Z, supra... Those are just cars to make profits, and feel too normal imo. But sometimes, like the NSX, Lexus LFA, RX-7, Original Supra (not this current BMW ) from the 1990's, they bring something special and different. Probably not going to happen to the next gen Miata tho...lol



View attachment 8351

I loved the looks of that generation RX-7. Interestingly if you take inflation into account, the original price of that car at the time is about what the Emira costs today.