The state of new cars, a non Emira rant!

[Orchardbike]

I posted this on a thread recently, but thought it might be worth having a discussion on ‘the state on new cars”……..

It’s the same for almost every new car now. Hugely heavy, bloated SUV, with more power/torque from the electric motors than its design can really cope with because of its huge bulk and size. The weight and all the drivers ‘aids’ removes as much involvement and engagement as possible. Steering feel is a thing of the past, the height, weight and electric steering destroys the handling and they constantly ‘bing and bong’ at you every minute for something or other. I have the displeasure of an electric SUV courtesy car at the moment. After 5 minutes I want to burn it. Driving it in the recent cold weather actually feels dangerous to me, if you try and straight line a corner (not because it’s faster, but because you’re trying to place less ‘stress’ on the tyres/grip, the steering goes light as the lane assist kicks in and you have no idea if you’re on ice, have grip or no grip, you just have no idea. Even in good conditions, you still have no idea how much grip you’ve got or how close you are to the limit. Things you need such as heater controls are now on the touch screen and need a number of full stretch touches of the screen which is located too far away from the driver. You’re cosseted and removed so far from actually driving that you can exceed the speed limit without realising (until the thing starts ‘bonging’ and you’re then searching the screens to see what the issue is and the you realise you’re over the limit. The automatic headlights don’t react fast enough, so you blind a driver or you can’t see and are fumbling to work out how to put main beam on and the. They suddenly come on. The windscreen wipers in auto mode either don’t come on when you need them to or are going constantly when they’re not needed. I could go on, but you get the point. I have zero interest in any new car and particularly SUV’s. I doubt that if you blindfolded someone and put them in any new SUV, they’d find it impossible to tell what car they were in, they all have zero character. If you buy a new car today, you’re just buying into a brand and the lifestyle that they that brand promotes by their adverts.

 

[Mistral]

I posted this on a thread recently, but thought it might be worth having a discussion on ‘the state on new cars”……..

It’s the same for almost every new car now. Hugely heavy, bloated SUV, with more power/torque from the electric motors than its design can really cope with because of its huge bulk and size. The weight and all the drivers ‘aids’ removes as much involvement and engagement as possible. Steering feel is a thing of the past, the height, weight and electric steering destroys the handling and they constantly ‘bing and bong’ at you every minute for something or other. I have the displeasure of an electric SUV courtesy car at the moment. After 5 minutes I want to burn it. Driving it in the recent cold weather actually feels dangerous to me, if you try and straight line a corner (not because it’s faster, but because you’re trying to place less ‘stress’ on the tyres/grip, the steering goes light as the lane assist kicks in and you have no idea if you’re on ice, have grip or no grip, you just have no idea. Even in good conditions, you still have no idea how much grip you’ve got or how close you are to the limit. Things you need such as heater controls are now on the touch screen and need a number of full stretch touches of the screen which is located too far away from the driver. You’re cosseted and removed so far from actually driving that you can exceed the speed limit without realising (until the thing starts ‘bonging’ and you’re then searching the screens to see what the issue is and the you realise you’re over the limit. The automatic headlights don’t react fast enough, so you blind a driver or you can’t see and are fumbling to work out how to put main beam on and the. They suddenly come on. The windscreen wipers in auto mode either don’t come on when you need them to or are going constantly when they’re not needed. I could go on, but you get the point. I have zero interest in any new car and particularly SUV’s. I doubt that if you blindfolded someone and put them in any new SUV, they’d find it impossible to tell what car they were in, they all have zero character. If you buy a new car today, you’re just buying into a brand and the lifestyle that they that brand promotes by their adverts.

Harry Metcalfe did a recent video about cars being ever more complex, with functions dictated by governments, which most people don't want, but with an ever increasing price tag, which also leads to plummeting values on the used market.

 

[Orchardbike]

Harry Metcalfe did a recent video about cars being ever more complex, with functions dictated by governments, which most people don't want, but with an ever increasing price tag, which also leads to plummeting values on the used market.

I guess the unasked question is that in a couple of year or more, will cars like the Emira be much sought after as the market will hate what it’s got and the used prices will go up?

 

[jonsealsportscars]

I think there are very few true drivers cars left. Emira/GT4RS/Alpine thats about it for sports cars in current production (that aren't MX5s)

 

[Jinba ittai]

jk. I don’t like all the tech either.

 

[brainf18]

100% agree...I recently drove a new toyota camry PHEV rental car and the lane keep assist (that could not be turned off) was so violent it would snatch the wheel out of your hands. The constant bings and bongs and the EV battery state of charge display looked like a video game playing in the dash, which also could not be turned off. New cars are sheeet!

 

[Nova]

This is just the standard car rant.

Cars are appliances to most people. It's a tool they use in life to get from A to B to C and back to A. They want the car to be a forgettable and utterly unremarkable part of their day. The car is to get out of the way, fade in to the background, and be nothing but a backdrop.

I actually think it's a neat time for auto enthusiasts with a lot of available choices. The brands have raised the bar on enthusiast car models and the vast majority of the ones currently on the market have some real performance bona-fides rather than just being a reskinned version of a soulless platform.

 

[Suprluminal]

I read somewhere that we really messed up with electric cars. Instead of designing smaller efficient cars (by efficient I don’t mean slow), most are just massively heavy trucks. By building them so heavy, their supposed benefits are wasted by creating other forms of waste: more rubber from tires, more pavement damage, and so on.
And so we now have absurdly heavy and overpowered trucks, which cannot use that power except in a straight line due to their mass. Having 1000bhp there is just bragging rights. Useless waste of materials and energy.

 

[Tomwa]

This is just the standard car rant.

Cars are appliances to most people. It's a tool they use in life to get from A to B to C and back to A. They want the car to be a forgettable and utterly unremarkable part of their day. The car is to get out of the way, fade in to the background, and be nothing but a backdrop.

I actually think it's a neat time for auto enthusiasts with a lot of available choices...

Agreed completely. Cars have been appliances for most people for awhile. If they are more than that, to most, they are a signal to others of their success or conspicuous consumption.

That said, automakers are realizing they can charge more for enthusiast cars. So it is also filling that second role for some.

People who don't care about driving experience or going and having fun, but buy a Ferrari because it's supposed to be "the best".

The fact is, if you have a daily commute ranging beyond 30 minutes. Self driving car? That sounds like the ideal. In many ways, it is. I can be on my phone, taking work meetings, catching emails, morning news, and feel nearly at home before being dumped out at work?

For mobility, the only thing better would be some kind of teleportation.

 

[Nova]

I read somewhere that we really messed up with electric cars. Instead of designing smaller efficient cars (by efficient I don’t mean slow), most are just massively heavy trucks. By building them so heavy, their supposed benefits are wasted by creating other forms of waste: more rubber from tires, more pavement damage, and so on.
And so we now have absurdly heavy and overpowered trucks, which cannot use that power except in a straight line due to their mass. Having 1000bhp there is just bragging rights. Useless waste of materials and energy.

Well, the fact is that people want larger cars. This is true of consumers all over the world. To be more accurate, people want some "medium-large" sized car: smaller than a minivan, larger than a compact. People vote with their dollars and they vote for larger vehicles that have more/better features. There were no shortage of small and cheap cars in the US, but people stopped buying them.

Except for a rather small minority, people don't want smaller and lighter cars. Until this changes, car companies will no make small/light/efficient cars.

 

[Tomwa]

Yeah. The problem is, if you are going to have 1 car to do it all.. yeah you want that car to be big enough for your regular needs, as well as those odd cases of picking up a visitor from the airport. Or the long weekend trip out of state.

People used to manage those things with smaller cars, got creative with packing or car top luggage.

Add to it the want for managing in more weather situations. (Whether real or not, the marketing is convincing). And the general feeling of safety for having more car around you. To some extent, it's true. Small a pillars are gone. Large side windows are gone. (At least by proportion). Why? Better side impact, more robust roof structure, airbags that deploy.

I don't like it, personally. But when you look at something like the way the Subaru Forester changed generation to generation. It's not by accident or bad decisions. Subaru sold more cars. They gave people what they wanted.

 

[Johnson]

Applies to any form of technology really — the more complex, the greater the amenity… but the more there is to go wrong. E.g. I love being able to control my smartlights with voice or phone, but when the power goes out (a regular occurrence) my house lights up like a Christmas tree.

I’m happy for my Emira to wipe the windscreen, even if it does a dry wipe every so often. Although I draw the line at a self-driving vehicle that doesn’t understand the trolley problem.

 

[73JPS]

On “The Importance of Loving the Daily Driver”.

From 2013 - 2017 I had a Cadillac ATS. During that time there was not a trip I wasn’t excited to take nor an errand I did not want to run: the car was engaging and brilliant to drive. I didn’t own it: it was on a 4 year lease. When 2017 rolled around, I wanted to purchase a new ATS. I didn’t want to buy the car I had off lease because I wanted a few more bells and whistles and my buyout was a little pricey. Alas, by 2017 GM had done what GM does, and had stopped offering the manual transmission on the ATS in a high trim level (except for the ATS -V, and that was a bit out of my price range at the time.)

So, I bought a new Audi A4 which I purchased to my specifications. I thought it would be a worthy ATS replacement. Alas, very soon after purchase it became true that there was not a trip that I was excited to take nor an errand that I wanted to run. Don’t get me wrong, it was a very nice car: but it was an appliance, devoid of character, almost to the point of it being irritating to drive. To make matters worse it developed more creaks and rattles in 4 months than the ATS had had after 4 years.

I drove that A4 for almost 8 years. Eight years of mundane, boring, and frankly often irritating daily driving. But to be honest: nothing else out there seemed more promising .

Ah, but I had forgot about the Golf R. It had been a compelling contender to replace the ATS back in 2017, but it didn’t come with a couple of items that had become essential for me back then, so I had passed. Furthermore, they had been unobtainium around here since about 2021. In the past few months though, that all changed and dealers have quite a large number of them.

Two months ago, acting on the knowledge that the manual transmission on these cars would no longer be offered for the 2025 model year and moving forward, I purchased a 2024 Golf R. Don’t get me wrong: everything they say about the lousy ancillary control interface is true, but… there is not a trip I’m not excited to take nor an errand I don’t want to run: the car is engaging and brilliant to drive.

 

[73JPS]

Except for a rather small minority, people don't want smaller and lighter cars. Until this changes, car companies will no make small/light/efficient cars.

Me, unfortunately

 

[Orchardbike]

Me, unfortunately

And me!

 

[Beachbum]

If I could afford to have an Ariel Nomad, Elise 250 Cup, Xbow, alongside the Emira, I'd have them tomorrow. There are a few others out there that would be contenders too, but those 3 would be at the top of the list
Small, light, high power/weight and I'd consider them everytime

 

[Mistral]

I guess the unasked question is that in a couple of year or more, will cars like the Emira be much sought after as the market will hate what it’s got and the used prices will go up?

Let's hope so although I'm intending to keep the Emira long term so I'm not so bothered about low used prices. Always nice to think that I haven't lost money though.

 

[Carbuilder]

Hugely heavy, bloated SUV, with more power/torque from the electric motors than its design can really cope with...... You’re cosseted and removed so far from actually driving that you can exceed the speed limit without realising (until the thing starts ‘bonging’ and you’re then searching the screens to see what the issue is and the you realise you’re over the limit. The automatic headlights don’t react fast enough, so you blind a driver or you can’t see and are fumbling to work out how to put main beam on and the. They suddenly come on. The windscreen wipers in auto mode either don’t come on when you need them to or are going constantly when they’re not needed.

I have a Genesis GV60 (fully electric). One of the best daily driver cars I've ever had. There is no "bonging" if you set it up initially not to do that. The automatic high beams and wipers work perfectly. You can turn off various driver assist setting if you want, but no need to since they won't kick in unless they are needed, then you'll be glad it has them. Like any modern car there are a lot of settings to go through to make it the way you want it.

I always find it amusing when people say they don't like all the modern systems in cars, often referred to as the "nannies". The same people are likely the ones responsible for the low mileage Vipers and other high performance cars that wreckers have with very low mileage.

 

[Beachbum]

I have a Genesis GV60 (fully electric). One of the best daily driver cars I've ever had. There is no "bonging" if you set it up initially not to do that. The automatic high beams and wipers work perfectly. You can turn off various driver assist setting if you want, but no need to since they won't kick in unless they are needed, then you'll be glad it has them. Like any modern car there are a lot of settings to go through to make it the way you want it.

I always find it amusing when people say they don't like all the modern systems in cars, often referred to as the "nannies". The same people are likely the ones responsible for the low mileage Vipers and other high performance cars that wreckers have with very low mileage.

I assume by you positive comments, that the GV60 does not reset the setting back to them "assisting" every time you turn the ignition off?
I have a KIA with limited assists and that resets everything back when ignition is turned off and assumed all the KIA/Hyundai/Genesis cars did the same

 

[Orchardbike]

I assume by you positive comments, that the GV60 does not reset the setting back to them "assisting" every time you turn the ignition off?
I have a KIA with limited assists and that resets everything back when ignition is turned off and assumed all the KIA/Hyundai/Genesis cars did the same

My courtesy car resets itself and there are some things that cannot be turned off. The electric assist/lane control steering is always the same I.e. on and makes the steering vague and light so that you can’t tell how much traction you’ve got. I’ve managed to turn off some of the ‘bongs’ but not all of them.