USA & Canada pricing

[virtualmacho]

So are people furious because they paid a deposit and then the prices went up or that they have been waiting for a century and still have no car? What if prices go up again for the 2025 model?

Could be both, and more (unclear or lack of communications, not getting a free gift, limited test drives, FE2.0 arriving at the same time as FE1.0, etc). Everyone has their reasons.
Personally, I am happy with my car. No regrets.

 

[LuckysDad]

I'm really regretting paying up for an FE2 just to get Atlantis Blue.
When these cars come on the secondary market, FE1s and FE2s will be worth the same. Basically all FE2s are throwing away an extra $12 grand in depreciation.

 

[Nova]

I'm really regretting paying up for an FE2 just to get Atlantis Blue.
When these cars come on the secondary market, FE1s and FE2s will be worth the same. Basically all FE2s are throwing away an extra $12 grand in depreciation.

I would argue that a more accurate way to look at it is that FE 1.0 prices appreciated to FE 2.0 prices, because new cars will be sold at FE 2.0 price levels and not FE 1.0. The depreciation you described didn't occur.

 

[LuckysDad]

I would argue that a more accurate way to look at it is that FE 1.0 prices appreciated to FE 2.0 prices, because new cars will be sold at FE 2.0 price levels and not FE 1.0. The depreciation you described didn't occur.

I'm HIGHLY skeptical that FE1s will APPRECIATE by $12k to meet new car prices.
If you search any UK classifieds, these things are without a doubt depreciating like any other car on the secondary market.

 

[Nova]

I'm HIGHLY skeptical that FE1s will APPRECIATE by $12k to meet new car prices.
If you search any UK classifieds, these things are without a doubt depreciating like any other car on the secondary market.

I don't think you can extrapolate what's going on in the UK market to the US. We are experiencing somewhat different economic environments. The US economy has been a lot more resilient and the monetary/immigration policies of the US has significantly benefited people with higher incomes vs lower.

Secondly, I'm just making a logical observation: If you bought something at $5 and new ones are selling for $10, the value of the thing bought at $5 has *increased*. It doesn't make sense to me to claim that the thing now selling at $10 is worth only $5 because it used to sell for that price. I'm also not claiming that FE 1.0 will have appreciated by 12k, but that the used price of a FE 1.0 is going to be the same as that of a FE 2.0, which is higher because of the increased FE 2.0 prices. How much higher? I would guess somewhere between $0.01 and $12k. But higher.

 

[LuckysDad]

We're going to have to agree to disagree here for now.
We'll have to revisit this a year from now and see.

 

[Porter]

I'm HIGHLY skeptical that FE1s will APPRECIATE by $12k to meet new car prices.
If you search any UK classifieds, these things are without a doubt depreciating like any other car on the secondary market.

The UK economy is a mess at the moment. They have a high cost of borrowing, currency valuation challenges, and a low public appetite for luxury spending, at least for now. There is nothing that can be extrapolated from UK market behavior to other markets at this time. It certainly doesn't reflect on the inherent value of a Lotus Emira on the used market anywhere other than there.

You can buy a McLaren there for absurdly low prices too. Let me know when you find low pricing on those to match in the US, I don't think you'll find it.

 

[John777]

Still sucks that Lotus didn't honor early deposits from 2021 who couldn't get confirmed orders, especially when they counted them as "sales" when doing all of their announcements.

When I put my deposit in Oct 2022 it was advertised as $119k. Now $129k. I could barely afford $119k. If the price goes up again, I'l have to cancel. And I say if you put a deposit down then they should honour the price of the deposit date. Every dealership I've conducted business with in the past, my deposit secured the price or MSRP at the time. Although it was only ever a few days or weeks maybe a couple months for delivery and the paperwork was completed in full compared to lotus with just a deposit and ID on the sales forms.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I think we will have to wait for base Emira pricing to really distinguish depreciation. There are multiple ways this can pan out, and I have mentioned in the other thread why looking at past Lotus sales is a flawed data point.

For those with Emira V6 manuals, the depreciation is tied with demand, as with anything. Once i4’s start being built for ROW (outside China) the allocation space at hethel for the V6 manual will diminish. Yes the F/E’s currently are all V6 manuals, but unlike Evora, the offer of i4’s around the world will begin to take away the ability for Lotus to saturate any market. This may not seem the case now as they have only built V6’s, but it will change.

I have also mentioned Lotus’ push in a lot of other markets where they never sold cars. Parts of Asia / India and other places. This will also have an effect to how many cars go where.

Lastly, the Emira and especially the V6 has a countdown before production ends. All these pressures together and coupled with the delays and loosing a year or more of production due to delays, points to a low depreciation curve.

Will there be a few for sale soon, absolutely. Will it be below msrp, probably

 

[EspritGuy]

I think we will have to wait for base Emira pricing to really distinguish depreciation. There are multiple ways this can pan out, and I have mentioned in the other thread why looking at past Lotus sales is a flawed data point.

For those with Emira V6 manuals, the depreciation is tied with demand, as with anything. Once i4’s start being built for ROW (outside China) the allocation space at hethel for the V6 manual will diminish. Yes the F/E’s currently are all V6 manuals, but unlike Evora, the offer of i4’s around the world will begin to take away the ability for Lotus to saturate any market. This may not seem the case now as they have only built V6’s, but it will change.

I have also mentioned Lotus’ push in a lot of other markets where they never sold cars. Parts of Asia / India and other places. This will also have an effect to how many cars go where.

Lastly, the Emira and especially the V6 has a countdown before production ends. All these pressures together and coupled with the delays and loosing a year or more of production due to delays, points to a low depreciation curve.

Will there be a few for sale soon, absolutely. Will it be below msrp, probably

So, has anyone else noticed that the current NA Emira configurator shows $900 reduction from the FE2.0 list price of $105,400?

 

[Lotustoronto]

So, has anyone else noticed that the current NA Emira configurator shows $900 reduction from the FE2.0 list price of $105,400?

Typical Lotus, someone was updating the site and mixed around the 4 and the 5.....hahaha

 

[benjh1028]

The UK economy is a mess at the moment. They have a high cost of borrowing, currency valuation challenges, and a low public appetite for luxury spending, at least for now. There is nothing that can be extrapolated from UK market behavior to other markets at this time. It certainly doesn't reflect on the inherent value of a Lotus Emira on the used market anywhere other than there.

You can buy a McLaren there for absurdly low prices too. Let me know when you find low pricing on those to match in the US, I don't think you'll find it.

Holy shit the McLaren prices in the UK are unreal. I had no idea.

 

[gmbc]

I have been doing a comparison of US and Canadian prices, and was quite surprised with the results.

The Canadian price for an FE2 is $129,900 CAD, after delivery charge and dealer fees approximately $135,000. Assuming no trade-in, in BC the taxes payable will be federal luxury tax of $7,000, 5% GST of $6,750 and 15% PST of $20,250, taxes totalling $34,000 or 25%, for a grand total of approximately $169,000. At the current exchange rate (January 26th, 2024) this would convert to approximately $125,500 USD.

For comparison purposes, the same vehicle purchased in Seattle would be $105,400 USD, after delivery charge and dealer fees approximately $110,000. Sales tax payable will be 10.4% of $11,440, for a grand total of $121,440. At the current exchange rate this would convert to approximately $163,500 CAD.

The difference is approximately $5,500 CAD / $4,000 USD, or 3.4% more expensive in BC. Considering the exorbitant taxes we pay in BC, I’m surprised there isn’t a bigger difference. When the Emira was first announced the Canadian price was significantly higher than in the US, but due to the weakening of the CAD it’s much closer now, and will be slightly cheaper in some Canadian provinces.

 

[Porter]

Holy shit the McLaren prices in the UK are unreal. I had no idea.

Right? They are SO cheap! It's crazy.

 

[Eagle7]

I have been doing a comparison of US and Canadian prices, and was quite surprised with the results.

The Canadian price for an FE2 is $129,900 CAD, after delivery charge and dealer fees approximately $135,000. Assuming no trade-in, in BC the taxes payable will be federal luxury tax of $7,000, 5% GST of $6,750 and 15% PST of $20,250, taxes totalling $34,000 or 25%, for a grand total of approximately $169,000. At the current exchange rate (January 26th, 2024) this would convert to approximately $125,500 USD.

For comparison purposes, the same vehicle purchased in Seattle would be $105,400 USD, after delivery charge and dealer fees approximately $110,000. Sales tax payable will be 10.4% of $11,440, for a grand total of $121,440. At the current exchange rate this would convert to approximately $163,500 CAD.

The difference is approximately $5,500 CAD / $4,000 USD, or 3.4% more expensive in BC. Considering the exorbitant taxes we pay in BC, I’m surprised there isn’t a bigger difference. When the Emira was first announced the Canadian price was significantly higher than in the US, but due to the weakening of the CAD it’s much closer now, and will be slightly cheaper in some Canadian provinces.

The sales tax would be on the car only, there's no sales tax on the delivery charge or the dealer fees.

 

[Lotustoronto]

The sales tax would be on the car only, there's no sales tax on the delivery charge or the dealer fees.

There is Canada! Welcome to the we tax on tax country

 

[Hell4Leather]

I would argue that a more accurate way to look at it is that FE 1.0 prices appreciated to FE 2.0 prices, because new cars will be sold at FE 2.0 price levels and not FE 1.0. The depreciation you described didn't occur.

 

[brainf18]

I'm really regretting paying up for an FE2 just to get Atlantis Blue.
When these cars come on the secondary market, FE1s and FE2s will be worth the same. Basically all FE2s are throwing away an extra $12 grand in depreciation.

if you never sell then depreciation is $0