vs Cayman GT4 RS - Competition?

[SlavaUkraini]

Like Tony said this car is nowhere near the looks of the Emira so I’m happy with my now July delivery

Although there will be many more Emira’s built the demand will be much much greater than that of the GT4 RS. I think people will be very surprised at the ridiculous re sale value of the Lotus Emira as 4,800 a year is simply not enough.

The demand for the Emira is not going to be higher than the RS. We don't really need to be talking about this though. These cars are not in the same market. They are not priced the same either. There are probably going to be less than 1,500 RS produced a year. I know 3 allocations that came in at $150k over sticker and sold instantly, to give you an idea of what demand is like.

 

[New to Lotus]

Only a few of these cars will be made you will never own one, unless your happy to pay double the list price.

 

[LotusB]

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I'm glad they don't. Chasing 'Ring times has increased raw performance at the expense of the driver experience in a lot of these cars. I personally don't want a track car on the street, they become pretty seriously compromised in other settings and the owner has to really fully commit to the trade-off in suspension compliance and human comfort. It's to the point where one would likely need to apologize to their passenger if setting off together on a weekend journey that isn't specifically centered around a track day.


It's weird to think about , but we've reached a point where the base 911 Carrera (992) is probably genuinely more pleasing to drive in 99% of road scenarios (even in very fast back road driving) than any of the Porsche GT-series cars like the GT3.

Here are two YouTube videos that may provide some support for that wild claim.... one from Remove Before Race and the other from Harry's Garage. And even Harry found the base 911 somewhat compromised in comfort compared to what he would personally want in a road car. That's the Nürburgring chassis tuning coming through, and it's not always good.

Different buyers for different cars, this is why Porsche's range is so broad.

Some people live in the UK or Northern US with bumpy/damaged roads, where suspension compliance matters a lot more and where you already own a daily driver or two and this is just a weekend car.

Then there are people who live in Southern US/Cali where we have flat undamaged roads and because of the weather I can daily-drive anything ridiculous.

I'd buy a GT-car in a heartbeat if I could get an allocation at MSRP. It's just not happening, I've tried. I've had much better experience with Lamborghini to be honest.

Agree with others, good luck getting the GT4 RS... not gonna happen and nowhere close to MSRP.

 

[roundincircles]

This car has an epic engine, gearbox and steering. I've had the privilege of driving one of the track competition cars. I currently drive a GT4. This will be a sought after car in my view, naturally aspirated, DCT box. Wonderful epic engine, have I said that?

The dealers in the UK have no idea on allocation as per last week.......and expect one or two cars this year. A friend in Geneva had an April 6th delivery date which has been kiboshed due to the Ukrainian factory bombing that made the looms.

So Porsche are not communicating, probably because the situation with production is now in chaos, sound familiar?

 

[DJS]

Different buyers for different cars, this is why Porsche's range is so broad.

Some people live in the UK or Northern US with bumpy/damaged roads, where suspension compliance matters a lot more and where you already own a daily driver or two and this is just a weekend car.

Then there are people who live in Southern US/Cali where we have flat undamaged roads and because of the weather I can daily-drive anything ridiculous.

I'd buy a GT-car in a heartbeat if I could get an allocation at MSRP. It's just not happening, I've tried. I've had much better experience with Lamborghini to be honest.

Agree with others, good luck getting the GT4 RS... not gonna happen and nowhere close to MSRP.

Good luck getting an Emira anytime soon if your not in the mix already.

 

[LotusB]

Good luck getting an Emira anytime soon if your not in the mix already.

Thanks, but my Emira FE has already been ordered and I have a receipt from Lotus. It'll be in the first shipment to the US

 

[DJS]

Congratulations one of the lucky ones.

 

[mjw930]

The GT4 RS is not limited at this time. There is just a wait list and extreme dealer markup.

Correct, it's not a "Limited Edition" with a fixed number of copies but ALL GT products are limited in availability by design.

One thing I know is all MY22, MY23 GT4, GT4RS, Spyder, GT3 and GT3T global allocations are spoken for and backed up by waitlists so them not being "Limited" is pure semantics.

 

[Evotion]

The New Topgear review that went on youtube this morning says this is the best sounding car ever.

Well, that confirms for me that is is a bulshit manufactured arse licking review.

Then again, I have not heard it in anger but really?!?

 

[Evotion]

I still don't, in my eyes, think it is a pretty as an Emira.

Oh agreed. Not close in my opinion.
However, with that Weissach pack option it has terrific presence. It is a proper drivers car too so I would be delighted to own one - but not at that price.

 

[SlavaUkraini]

Correct, it's not a "Limited Edition" with a fixed number of copies but ALL GT products are limited in availability by design.

One thing I know is all MY22, MY23 GT4, GT4RS, Spyder, GT3 and GT3T global allocations are spoken for and backed up by waitlists so them not being "Limited" is pure semantics.

There are no confirmed MY23 GT4 or Spyder's atm, although I suspect we will see them given the circumstances. However, Porsche previously said the GT4 and Spyder will end with MY22. You are right that the GT versions of the 718 are extremely sought after and even if they are not limited production in the idea they are numbered, they may as well be because Porsche can only give out so many allocations and they will all be spoken for.

 

[xen]

Well, that confirms for me that is is a bulshit manufactured arse licking review.

Then again, I have not heard it in anger but really?!?

Not the full story...

Best sounding car ever from inside the cabin - a fairly plausible argument could be made.

 

[xen]

Correct, it's not a "Limited Edition" with a fixed number of copies but ALL GT products are limited in availability by design.

One thing I know is all MY22, MY23 GT4, GT4RS, Spyder, GT3 and GT3T global allocations are spoken for and backed up by waitlists so them not being "Limited" is pure semantics.

If they were then dealers wouldn't be offering them at significant markups. There are waitlist but there also are allocations available...just not at MSRP.

 

[SlavaUkraini]

Well, that confirms for me that is is a bulshit manufactured arse licking review.

Then again, I have not heard it in anger but really?!?

What about all the other reviews that echo the same sentiments? Keep in mind, when these same guys reviewed our precious Emira prototype on here a couple weeks ago and mentioned the sound, everyone was more than happy to accept that.

 

[VL3X]

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I'm glad they don't. Chasing 'Ring times has increased raw performance at the expense of the driver experience in a lot of these cars. I personally don't want a track car on the street, they become pretty seriously compromised in other settings and the owner has to really fully commit to the trade-off in suspension compliance and human comfort. It's to the point where one would likely need to apologize to their passenger if setting off together on a weekend journey that isn't specifically centered around a track day.


It's weird to think about , but we've reached a point where the base 911 Carrera (992) is probably genuinely more pleasing to drive in 99% of road scenarios (even in very fast back road driving) than any of the Porsche GT-series cars like the GT3.

Here are two YouTube videos that may provide some support for that wild claim.... one from Remove Before Race and the other from Harry's Garage. And even Harry found the base 911 somewhat compromised in comfort compared to what he would personally want in a road car. That's the Nürburgring chassis tuning coming through, and it's not always contributing positively on the road.

That's true, but there are certain numbers on paper that sell sports cars.. HP/TQ, 0-60, 1/4 miles, weight, and ring times. The Emira isn't exactly winning at any of those. Sure, most Lotus owners aren't expecting or chasing ridiculously quick 0-60 or 1/4 miles times, but it's be nice to be the best at something (it used to be weight).

I guess we're all satisfied with great at almost everything while being beautiful and exclusive!

 

[Porter]

That's true, but there are certain numbers on paper that sell sports cars.. HP/TQ, 0-60, 1/4 miles, weight, and ring times. The Emira isn't exactly winning at any of those. Sure, most Lotus owners aren't expecting or chasing ridiculously quick 0-60 or 1/4 miles times, but it's be nice to be the best at something (it used to be weight).

I guess we're all satisfied with great at almost everything while being beautiful and exclusive!

I'd totally agree with you if we were having this conversation 10 or 15 years ago. But since the advent of modern electric cars, the performance figures themselves just don't matter anymore. Not really. You can buy a family sedan or crossover today that will out-accelerate any exotic sports car made by any manufacturer in the world prior to 2010. "Normal" non-car people are out in your neighborhood right now driving family crossovers around from 5 or 6 different manufacturers that will each crush the 0-60 in well under 4 seconds reliably just by mashing the Go pedal.

Think of it! In 2010 the fastest production car in the world was the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport, which had 1184 hp and did 0-60 in 2.5s. Fastest thing on the planet. It also cost almost $2.8 million dollars. Today you can buy a Tesla Model S or Model X that will each handily out-accelerate that Veyron, at ~2.07s and ~2.3s to 60 respectively, each at under 1/20th the price.

With that kind of performance available to normal people, it kind of renders the old horsepower wars and "bench racing" ego competitions obsolete. What automotive enthusiasts are returning to instead is the experiential nature of driving, the connection with the car and the fundamental quality of its feedback to the driver. That's where Lotus excels, and that's why I think their success will have nothing to do with specs on paper. It's about the experience of driving, not about being arbitrarily faster than something else in a testing scenario.

 

[Tonyshepp]

Speak for yourself

Order a RHD drive model

I'd totally agree with you if we were having this conversation 10 or 15 years ago. But since the advent of modern electric cars, the performance figures themselves just don't matter anymore. Not really. You can buy a family sedan or crossover today that will out-accelerate any exotic sports car made by any manufacturer in the world prior to 2010. "Normal" non-car people are out in your neighborhood right now driving family crossovers around from 5 or 6 different manufacturers that will each crush the 0-60 in well under 4 seconds reliably just by mashing the Go pedal.

Think of it! In 2010 the fastest production car in the world was the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport, which had 1184 hp and did 0-60 in 2.5s. Fastest thing on the planet. It also cost almost $2.8 million dollars. Today you can buy a Tesla Model S or Model X that will each handily out-accelerate that Veyron, at ~2.07s and ~2.3s to 60 respectively, each at under 1/20th the price.

With that kind of performance available to normal people, it kind of renders the old horsepower wars and "bench racing" ego competitions obsolete. What automotive enthusiasts are returning to instead is the experiential nature of driving, the connection with the car and the fundamental quality of its feedback to the driver. That's where Lotus excels, and that's why I think their success will have nothing to do with specs on paper. It's about the experience of driving, not about being arbitrarily faster than something else in a testing scenario.

sums it up perfectly for me..

 

[VL3X]

I'd totally agree with you if we were having this conversation 10 or 15 years ago. But since the advent of modern electric cars, the performance figures themselves just don't matter anymore. Not really. You can buy a family sedan or crossover today that will out-accelerate any exotic sports car made by any manufacturer in the world prior to 2010. "Normal" non-car people are out in your neighborhood right now driving family crossovers around from 5 or 6 different manufacturers that will each crush the 0-60 in well under 4 seconds reliably just by mashing the Go pedal.

Think of it! In 2010 the fastest production car in the world was the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport, which had 1184 hp and did 0-60 in 2.5s. Fastest thing on the planet. It also cost almost $2.8 million dollars. Today you can buy a Tesla Model S or Model X that will each handily out-accelerate that Veyron, at ~2.07s and ~2.3s to 60 respectively, each at under 1/20th the price.

With that kind of performance available to normal people, it kind of renders the old horsepower wars and "bench racing" ego competitions obsolete. What automotive enthusiasts are returning to instead is the experiential nature of driving, the connection with the car and the fundamental quality of its feedback to the driver. That's where Lotus excels, and that's why I think their success will have nothing to do with specs on paper. It's about the experience of driving, not about being arbitrarily faster than something else in a testing scenario.

Yeah, I like this. "Driver feedback" and engagement is exactly what I'm after. I've owned a bunch of sports cars, worked at dealers, and owned/operated my own auto brokerage which allowed me the opportunity to drive all sorts of luxury and exotic vehicles over the years. There's always going to be something out there faster and with more power, but I'm after engagement and excitement both on street and track. I think the Emira ticks those boxes and why I'm going for sport chassis and manual transmission.

I digress.. let's get back to the 4RS! I think the supercharged 2GR is the best sounding V6 out there, but that flat 6 in the GT4 sounds incredible! The induction noise is well captured in the Top Gear review. I wonder what 2GR would sound like at 9k rpms! Will the Emira actually rev to 7k in sport? IIRC, the Evora cut off before 7k.

 

[torstin]

I wonder why Porsche limits these kind of cars when they could sell more of them to ordinary buyers. I still don't, in my eyes, think it is a pretty as an Emira.

Not profitable

 

[mjw930]

Not profitable

And there you go Halo cars that stoke brand awareness and desire.

Porsche has rewritten the book on product marketing and brand recognition. I’d say only Ferrari and Harley Davidson play in their league when it comes the brand management.