📓 Journals Adding Lightness

[KJWEmira]

It’s definitely a concern. I was surprised by how much crap was inside the intake box after only a few thousand miles, including plenty of leaves.

Agreed - here’s mine after 3600miles, no leaves though

 

[KJWEmira]

I wonder how difficult it will be to replace the air filter in these

If you’re referring to replacing the filter in the Eventuri then you have to remove the entire Eventuri. However, this is easy & simple because it’s simple to unbolt, & comes out of the space easier than opening the standard air box IMO.
Once removed, it’s a simple task to open & replace the air filter.

 

[Eagle7]

Can we get the uncorrected dyno charts please? Your two pulls are showing different SAE correction factors, which is unusual considering the weather is almost identical. It may be automated based on a weather station "accessory" with the dyno, but it's hard to say whether the correction factor is correct without knowing if it's been calibrated recently.

To avoid doubt, there should be a way to switch the view into uncorrected mode, which would make the absolute values less "accurate" but increase the fidelity of the comparison between the two runs, which is what most of us care about.

View attachment 47525

The weather was NOT the same. For the baseline run it was raining that day, and I literally drove through the rain to the dyno shop. Temps were in the high 70's. Today we're in a heat wave. It's currently 106 and this morning it was already 91 when I had my dyno run.

 

[Time2Fly]

It’s definitely a concern. I was surprised by how much crap was inside the intake box after only a few thousand miles, including plenty of leaves.

Which is going to be in the freeer intake as well. I wonder if someone's going to make a large particle screen for the intake.

 

[Porter]

The weather was NOT the same. For the baseline run it was raining that day, and I literally drove through the rain to the dyno shop. Temps were in the high 70's. Today we're in a heat wave. It's currently 106 and this morning it was already 91 when I had my dyno run.

Well something weird is going on with their sensor pack then, because the two runs show a nearly identical barometric pressure. That's super unlikely in the scenario you've described.

If the dyno is indoors I can see the ambient temperature being almost the same, but having the same barometric pressure in two very different weather conditions would be way unusual. Is the dyno in an air conditioned space? Or was it warm in there today?

Also, if somehow they are coincidentally both the same barometric pressure, 26.99 and 26.94 InHg Absolute are both super low. Are you at altitude? I would expect a low value on a rainy/stormy day but not on a hot clear one. Even if you're somewhere high like Denver, I'd expect the clear day value to be substantially higher than that.

 

[Steve24]

This is all excellent information, thank you to the OP.

This may be a dumb question but I’ll ask anyway:

What would happen if you put in the Eventuri and did the 3rd cat delete and got a resulting, say, 20hp improvement overall, and then installed the Jubu 440 upgrade?

Are these things cumulative? Would you end up with more than 440hp?

Would Jubu have to adjust their kit to cater for the fact the other mods have already been done, and what do we think the result would be?

 

[DsDetective]

Isn't the difference just the SAE factor though?

 

[Porter]

Isn't the difference just the SAE factor though?

That's what I'm trying to determine. The SAE correction should normalize the runs to the same values regardless of weather. But in this case the numbers raise questions.

 

[Steve24]

I’ve raised this question among some friends who should be able to supply an answer.

However I feel we should accept this on face value for now.
The dyno shop has no skin in the game - they didn’t supply or fit the intake.
Why would they fudge the numbers?

This is also in line with what Eventuri - by all accounts a perfectly reputable company - claim.

So why the scepticism?

The OP appears to be doing all of us a favour by doing exactly what we’d want anyone to do re a performance mod. Independent before and after tests.

In the absence of anything concrete to the contrary I’m prepared to believe the gains are real.

 

[Nova]

I’ve raised this question among some friends who should be able to supply an answer.

However I feel we should accept this on face value for now.
The dyno shop has no skin in the game - they didn’t supply or fit the intake.
Why would they fudge the numbers?

This is also in line with what Eventuri - by all accounts a perfectly reputable company - claim.

So why the scepticism?

The OP appears to be doing all of us a favour by doing exactly what we’d want anyone to do re a performance mod. Independent before and after tests.

In the absence of anything concrete to the contrary I’m prepared to believe the gains are real.

I don't think anyone is flat out claiming that they are rejecting these dyno results. As it happens, intake/exhaust mods are typically associated with rather modest gains, gains which are usually within the margin of error from one dyno pull to the next. So it's normal for people to raise questions about the conditions for the different pulls to sanity check these numbers. I am sure we all want to be making judgements based on as much factually accurate information as possible.

I also don't think anyone is claiming wrongdoing. I personally am just concerned about normal measurement error margins, or maybe minor configuration mistakes. As you said, the dyno shop has no skin in the game - they neither have a reason to fudge the numbers, nor to be extra careful with the dyno setup/configuration.

I do appreciate @Eagle7 being among the first to try this product, and pay for the dyno runs so that others in the community can benefit from his experience. I am upfront that I have my doubts about the Eventuri product from a filtering effectiveness perspective, as well as the claimed aerodynamic benefits, but I have nothing but two thumbs up for Eagle7.

 

[benjh1028]

Definitely kudos to Eagle7 for the trouble and expense for the benefit of the community.

 

[seriously]

if the atmospheric numbers are to be believed than they are so similar that the relative gains hold up. Plugged them into a dyno correction calc to confirm. @Porter rightly questions the condition inputs based on the actual weather observed.

 

[DsDetective]

Isn't the difference just the SAE factor though?

Yeah agreed - to answer my own question, if the atmospheric numbers were measured correctly then the SAE change should be fine. They use the older formula, so my calculator won't be exact, but using the newer J1349, you get:

Original test: SAE adjuted gives 369 wheel hp, which calculates as 330hp uncorrected (and 410 hp at the flywheel)

So if you take the same 330 uncorrected hp and use the new SAE, you get 366 wheel and 407 fly.

They all seem a bit high, but the correction makes no real difference by my maths! So looks like a good upgrade if it sounds OK and isn't sucking sand into the engine!

 

[TomAce]

They all seem a bit high, but the correction makes no real difference by my maths! So looks like a good upgrade if it sounds OK and isn't sucking sand into the engine!

I think it could be mostly brake dust when you look at the photos of that used air filter element above...

And one comment to the correction factors. I was told by someone who is dynoing a lot of cars, that he only compares uncorrected data because most cars with forced induction factor in atmospheric pressure and temperature.

For example on a mountain with less atmospheric pressure the ECU runs a little more boost to get the demanded power.

So these correction factors really made sense in times of mostly naturally aspirated engines, where these different conditions really had a huge impact and could not be compensated.

 

[Nova]

I think it could be mostly brake dust when you look at the photos of that used air filter element above...

Ooooh, very good point! That would explain the black soot looking dust. I wonder if this additional mat was added specifically to filter out brake dust like this.

 

[Eagle7]

Well something weird is going on with their sensor pack then, because the two runs show a nearly identical barometric pressure. That's super unlikely in the scenario you've described.

If the dyno is indoors I can see the ambient temperature being almost the same, but having the same barometric pressure in two very different weather conditions would be way unusual. Is the dyno in an air conditioned space? Or was it warm in there today?

Also, if somehow they are coincidentally both the same barometric pressure, 26.99 and 26.94 InHg Absolute are both super low. Are you at altitude? I would expect a low value on a rainy/stormy day but not on a hot clear one. Even if you're somewhere high like Denver, I'd expect the clear day value to be substantially higher than that.

I don't know how to run a dyno, so I just trusted the operator to know what he was doing. It was the same guy, same dyno, so I figured the results would be representative of the actual gains the Eventuri provided. We're at an altitude a little over 2,700 ft.

I can tell you there is a definite difference. I noticed it right away just from starting the car. The engine stability is noticeable. No vibration in the shift lever. The car now feels more lively right from the start, instead of waiting until I get up above 3k rpms before it really starts to feel like it's pulling. The feel is the same now all the way up the rpm range. It feels exactly like the performance curves on the dyno chart show.

We have ridiculously hot weather right now, so I'm not out driving. We've had 100+ for the last few days, and that's projected to continue for another 8 days. It should feel stronger in even cooler weather.

I'll probably do the engine and gear oil change next Tuesday (gotta do everything thing in the morning before it heats up outside). My Aerie wheels are supposed to arrive on Monday, so I'll put the car up in the air to change those out, and do everything else at the same time the wheels are all off. This includes removing the wheel well liners and putting sound dampening material on them.

The reduction in unsprung rotating weight the wheels provide, should make a nice improvement.

 

[Eagle7]

This is all excellent information, thank you to the OP.

This may be a dumb question but I’ll ask anyway:

What would happen if you put in the Eventuri and did the 3rd cat delete and got a resulting, say, 20hp improvement overall, and then installed the Jubu 440 upgrade?

Are these things cumulative? Would you end up with more than 440hp?

Would Jubu have to adjust their kit to cater for the fact the other mods have already been done, and what do we think the result would be?

Performance mods don't add up like a calculator. The performance gain a mod claims to provide is based on nothing else being changed. As soon as you start changing other things, it's going to alter the results previous mods have provided. Sometimes that's good, and sometimes it isn't. This is why you should always change things one at a time, and make sure what you just changed is working correctly (or as you hoped it would) before changing something else. This makes it a whole lot easier to troubleshoot issues if there are any.

When it comes to power mods, they should add together to some degree, just not the full amount each mod claims. There's always a loss factor of some amount. If you make enough changes to the intake and exhaust, you're probably going to need a custom tune to keep the air/fuel ratio (AFR) in line so the engine doesn't run too lean or too rich. Modern computer controlled engine systems do a pretty good job of making those adjustments automatically, but if you've changed things too much, you might need a manual tune. If you're going to change things like intake and exhaust, let your tuner know ahead of time (like Jubu) so they can factor that in.

As far as power gains, for example (just for easy math) if an Eventuri is adding 20 hp, and you add a Jubu tune claiming 440, you'll get somewhere between 440 and 460. If you then add a less restrictive exhaust, it'll bump it up some more, but not as much as the claims for the exhaust by itself. They do add up, just not completely.

 

[tnbuilder]

Now I need to find out how

Ooooh, very good point! That would explain the black soot looking dust. I wonder if this additional mat was added specifically to filter out brake dust like this.

If it is fine brake dust particles, would the Eventuri (or any other high flow filter) remove these before entering the engine?

 

[Eagle7]

If it is fine brake dust particles, would the Eventuri (or any other high flow filter) remove these before entering the engine?

I don't think it's brake dust. You aren't generating that unless you're stopping or slowing down, and based on how it clings to the wheels and brake calipers, I don't see it making it's way up the side of the car and into the intake. To me that looks more like dirty water spray coming off the tires from the road when it has rained or is raining. If you're driving through overspray coming from the vehicles in front of you, that could possibly make it's way into the intakes on the side. That could possibly be why Lotus has that gauze on there in the first place, to keep moisture or flat out water from making it's way through the filter and onto the MAF sensor.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Porter]

I don't know how to run a dyno, so I just trusted the operator to know what he was doing. It was the same guy, same dyno, so I figured the results would be representative of the actual gains the Eventuri provided. We're at an altitude a little over 2,700 ft.

I have been a dyno operator, which is the root of my questioning. I am not questioning that you saw gains from the intake! Far from it. It looks like a very legit product.

What I'm scratching my head about is the slight disconnect in the displayed data between the calculated/applied correction factor and the indicated weather conditions. If I were the dyno operator I would want to sanity check my numbers by pulling up the two run files again, and comparing them uncorrected.