Can someone get the same photo of the Auto V6 to compare please (If they have one there)
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All the Lotus info from Goodwood FOS...
- Thread starter TomE
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Although people trying to catch the sound is appreciated, it doesn't really help because none of us know whether the by-pass valves are open or not. I agree it sounds underwhelming as is so far, but I felt similar about the V6 on test drive. All of this speculating could be avoided if Lotus were more forthcoming. Annoying really.
For all the nay sayers here.. and having a v6 on order.. will try to change it for the i4. The m139 is a machine.. yes it doesnt sound like a v6 but defo the best on the market. If it wasnt for the lotus detune it would beat the v6s *ss all day everyday. If you buy the i4 bring it back to AMG stock power of 416 and see what it does in approx 3.7/3.9 seconds.
The same engine different car and for sure better in a rear mounted config with a 8spd dcg.
See the amg45s below (which is approx 100kg havier than an emira)
Amg45s
I might be wrong, but wasn't there an issue/potential issue with engine cooling in the i4 Emira? Maybe that's why it's detuned to 360bhp?
The cooling issue rumour always sounded like baloney to me... the car is peppered with holes, and has mahoosive heat exchangers up front to get rid of that heat. There was a market segmentation issue with the i4, in that it was super awkward to having it knock the V6 into a cocked hat performance-wise, so they detuned it.
Yeah, I kinda agree. I mean there are i4 turbo EVOs putting out 1000HP. Sure it's front engine, but I don't see why heat should be a big deal with the mid engine setup that it's limited to <400HP. There are ways to get more air back there like a roof scoop or more ventilation with an open louvered hatch. I'm sure the aftermarket will have fun with it. I think it's just to keep the V6 sales up initially and satisfy those wanting 3 pedals.
I have to say I really did think they'd manage to coax a bit more noise out of the i4... even if it is the "superior" drivetrain, I'm finding it very hard to be excited by that note, when compared to the six.
Having waited for the i4 from the outset, I now find myself practically convinced I'm going to switch my config to a manual V6. My driving habits have changed substantially this year, and I now don't even find myself commuting by car on days I go to the office (due to change of job), so I went for another test drive the other day, partly to refresh my interest levels, but also to see if I could "live with" the manual... and I totally loved it (again). So much grin-inducing noise and a sense of occasion. I have come to accept I'm probably looking for a fun GT, not a track monster, and now that I've been shown I cannot have my cake and eat it too, trading a few tenths of 0-60 for Dat Sound seems worth it.
Having waited for the i4 from the outset, I now find myself practically convinced I'm going to switch my config to a manual V6. My driving habits have changed substantially this year, and I now don't even find myself commuting by car on days I go to the office (due to change of job), so I went for another test drive the other day, partly to refresh my interest levels, but also to see if I could "live with" the manual... and I totally loved it (again). So much grin-inducing noise and a sense of occasion. I have come to accept I'm probably looking for a fun GT, not a track monster, and now that I've been shown I cannot have my cake and eat it too, trading a few tenths of 0-60 for Dat Sound seems worth it.
For the folks that are there, can you please ask Lotus what specifically has gone wrong with the US certification process? Not their deflection that "EPA have a backlog", but an actual answer.
This isn't a question motivated by impatience. If the car comes next year, that's fine. But this obfuscation of the situation by Lotus's careful omission of key information about what is happening is beyond frustrating.
The US public will find out the details of what is happening eventually anyway, because we have a legal right to the disclosure of government data. So I don't know why Lotus would even bother being coy about this. It makes them look craven, which I'm certain is not their intent.
This isn't a question motivated by impatience. If the car comes next year, that's fine. But this obfuscation of the situation by Lotus's careful omission of key information about what is happening is beyond frustrating.
The US public will find out the details of what is happening eventually anyway, because we have a legal right to the disclosure of government data. So I don't know why Lotus would even bother being coy about this. It makes them look craven, which I'm certain is not their intent.
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action_turtle
Emira Fanatic
On the factory tour, they said they had to work around the installation for cooling. So the rear frame is completely different for the i4 to help mount all the cooling and fit the engine in. Rear frame is lighter for that reason. i4's have no visible engine as it's all crammed in and not great to look at.
Im not sure about the detune. The V6 has also been pulled back for emissions. I was told that just throwing it on a dyno and re-tuning it, will get ~420bph with zero effort.
I have nothing to back it up, but I'm assuming the i4 has been detuned to fit emissions regs and make the cooling work. Moving it up to 400+bhp will require a lot of effort to keep cool, more effort than Lotus was willing to package. The engine as been designed to sit in the front, not behind the driver. Unlike the V6 they do not take it all apart and modify it, it's just dropped in.
Lotus has a very long history of producing various cars with 4-cylinder engines. The Emira I4 (2.0 4-cylinder turbocharged) is the latest car in that tradition. Lighter, lower point of gravity, and probably equally powerful as the V6 version (except for the purposeful detuning).
Therefore its sound should rather be compared to previous Lotus 4-cylinder models. These have always been the mainstay of Lotus cars sold on the market; and they are truly loved by most Lotus owners.
Sure the Exige started life as an enlarged Elise, and it received the Toyota V6 Supercharged engine, and it become the “visceral”, slightly brutal machine that found its own followers.
However this does not mean that many prospective Lotus customers won’t agree to a more “stealthy” and “discrete» 4-cylinder AMG engined car that actually most likely will also end up being the faster and better handling version over time.
Besides: all the talk about “rowing your gears” (I myself have possessed a number of cars, including sportscars like 3 different versions of Mazda RX-7, with manual transmission). It is outright wrong to describe the 8-speed AMG DCT as “an automatic”. Any simple Google search will show that a Dual Clutch transmission is actually “an automated” manual transmission (actually it is made like two manual transmissions in parallell.) For this reason it is both faster, and more precise, than any typical H-shift manual transmission with a clutch pedal. It may be very “romantic” to “row gears”, and this is very “hobby oriented”. But DCT (same as Porsche calls PDK) is the better transmission by design. The only thing that might be still superior is a sequential transmission which is typically used in racing cars (also without any clutch pedal), but it requires a full rebuild at regular, fairly short intervals, so it is not so feasible in a personal car for road use. However the DCT/PDK is a good compromise, and it is the preferred choice in most high-end sportscars like Bugatti, Ferrari, Lamborghini and so many others.
What we normally call “an automatic” is a torque converter gearbox, and these are used in countless SUV, sedans and even some sporscars. It does seem that Germany’s ZF has been so successful with their 8-speed ZF torque converter gearboxes that they fullfill almost every requirement one can wish for. BMW including Alpina now exclusively use such ZF torque converter gearboxes. I myself have a 6-cylinder twin turbocharged Alpina B3 with this 8-speed ZF, and another BMW 335i with a 6-speed ZF. I must admit that they are really excellent and leave little to be desired.
However, still I am personally excited about and look forward to the 8-speed AMG DCT gearbox in my upcoming Emira I4, because I expect the mode of operation and the “feel” of this box may be thrilling. It is also a new experience for me after having owned and used so many manual transmissions and also several torque converter transmissions. This will be my first Dual Clutch transmission.
I hope there are at least a few others here on the Emira forum that look at the AMG turbocharged 4-cylinder engine and the AMG 8-speed DCT transmission the way I do?
Maybe especially since I am older than the average member herein, I am not anymore yearning so much for that “visceral” experience as I would have done in my younger days. (I am still happy for those who prefer the V6 Supercharged version.) I am quite OK looking at the I4 as a more intriguing “silent rocket” with an intellectual core.
Therefore its sound should rather be compared to previous Lotus 4-cylinder models. These have always been the mainstay of Lotus cars sold on the market; and they are truly loved by most Lotus owners.
Sure the Exige started life as an enlarged Elise, and it received the Toyota V6 Supercharged engine, and it become the “visceral”, slightly brutal machine that found its own followers.
However this does not mean that many prospective Lotus customers won’t agree to a more “stealthy” and “discrete» 4-cylinder AMG engined car that actually most likely will also end up being the faster and better handling version over time.
Besides: all the talk about “rowing your gears” (I myself have possessed a number of cars, including sportscars like 3 different versions of Mazda RX-7, with manual transmission). It is outright wrong to describe the 8-speed AMG DCT as “an automatic”. Any simple Google search will show that a Dual Clutch transmission is actually “an automated” manual transmission (actually it is made like two manual transmissions in parallell.) For this reason it is both faster, and more precise, than any typical H-shift manual transmission with a clutch pedal. It may be very “romantic” to “row gears”, and this is very “hobby oriented”. But DCT (same as Porsche calls PDK) is the better transmission by design. The only thing that might be still superior is a sequential transmission which is typically used in racing cars (also without any clutch pedal), but it requires a full rebuild at regular, fairly short intervals, so it is not so feasible in a personal car for road use. However the DCT/PDK is a good compromise, and it is the preferred choice in most high-end sportscars like Bugatti, Ferrari, Lamborghini and so many others.
What we normally call “an automatic” is a torque converter gearbox, and these are used in countless SUV, sedans and even some sporscars. It does seem that Germany’s ZF has been so successful with their 8-speed ZF torque converter gearboxes that they fullfill almost every requirement one can wish for. BMW including Alpina now exclusively use such ZF torque converter gearboxes. I myself have a 6-cylinder twin turbocharged Alpina B3 with this 8-speed ZF, and another BMW 335i with a 6-speed ZF. I must admit that they are really excellent and leave little to be desired.
However, still I am personally excited about and look forward to the 8-speed AMG DCT gearbox in my upcoming Emira I4, because I expect the mode of operation and the “feel” of this box may be thrilling. It is also a new experience for me after having owned and used so many manual transmissions and also several torque converter transmissions. This will be my first Dual Clutch transmission.
I hope there are at least a few others here on the Emira forum that look at the AMG turbocharged 4-cylinder engine and the AMG 8-speed DCT transmission the way I do?
Maybe especially since I am older than the average member herein, I am not anymore yearning so much for that “visceral” experience as I would have done in my younger days. (I am still happy for those who prefer the V6 Supercharged version.) I am quite OK looking at the I4 as a more intriguing “silent rocket” with an intellectual core.
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All absolutely spot on and very well put forward.
Ah yeah it is a automatic and it is boring. If it is what you like then its great!
Regardless of the mechanism underlying the shift, if I put the transmission in "Drive" and the vehicle shifts itself, it is the very definition of an automatic. If I'm using the paddles and the computer puts the transmission in the correct gear, it is an automatic.
Yes, they are faster than any manual, but hardly hobby oriented. Manual transmissions have been the mainstay of sports cars for decades. To each his own, but I would not own a automatic sports car. For me it's about the total experience and true manual shifting is an integral part of that experience.
MickOpalak
Emira Fan
If you're not manually engaging and releasing the clutch with your left foot and not manually putting the transmission in another gear with your hand it's not a manual transmission. The computer is automatically engaging and releasing the clutch for you and automatically putting the transmission in another gear for you. It's an automatic.
Guys, let's keep this thread on topic and not turn it into a manual vs automatic argument. Those threads are a dime a dozen across car forums for decades. To each their own and let's just be grateful for options these days!
Back to the Goodwood FoS talk. Any new updates?
Back to the Goodwood FoS talk. Any new updates?
They rolled out the black i4 again this morning behind the Evija. Too difficult hear anything to make any additional comments on exhaust note. The Evija had an individual run as part of the supercar batch up the hill and looked fantastic.
It's throwing it down now unfortunately and there is the potential for 60mph winds tomorrow!!
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Eh...
Manual -vs- Automatic simply refers to whether the transmission requires some manual operation to change between gears. The details of the implementation inside the transmission doesn't magically transform it from one type to the other. A DCT is a very efficient automatic, but still an automatic.
Regardless, I don't see many people discrediting the excellence of the 8G-DCT. It's a great transmission! I just prefer a manual for this car - not because it works better, but because of personal preferences. This is not a rational decision, so there is no objectively correct answer.
I also further agree that the M139 is the superior engine. Were it not for my desire to have a manual, I would have leaned toward that engine choice. Although, I must say, owning a supercharged V6 is also an interesting thought because I've never owned one. On the other hand, I've had 3 turbo 6 cylinders in I and V configuration, as well as 2 turbo 4 cylinders, both from MB. Here again, it's somewhat of a subjective preference.
Manual -vs- Automatic simply refers to whether the transmission requires some manual operation to change between gears. The details of the implementation inside the transmission doesn't magically transform it from one type to the other. A DCT is a very efficient automatic, but still an automatic.
Regardless, I don't see many people discrediting the excellence of the 8G-DCT. It's a great transmission! I just prefer a manual for this car - not because it works better, but because of personal preferences. This is not a rational decision, so there is no objectively correct answer.
I also further agree that the M139 is the superior engine. Were it not for my desire to have a manual, I would have leaned toward that engine choice. Although, I must say, owning a supercharged V6 is also an interesting thought because I've never owned one. On the other hand, I've had 3 turbo 6 cylinders in I and V configuration, as well as 2 turbo 4 cylinders, both from MB. Here again, it's somewhat of a subjective preference.
How does this explain Chinese NYO models tuned to 400 HP?
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