Another trip around the buoy that is Lotus customer service...

[Scruff111S]

View attachment 8447

Just wondering Leonard, what car are you sitting in?

 

[Eagle7]

Thanks for the lecture. You are again trying to legitimise how Lotus are behaving. Now it's because I (and anyone else who points out shortcomings) deserve to be treated poorly. Right-oh.

As you well know, I have spent many hours providing carefully considered, constructive and practical inputs and feedback to Lotus. I've made 7-hour round trips to the factory to meet senior people and to see first hand what is going on. I've written documents in response to their requests for more details. I've had calls and exchanges of messages when hot spots have flared up amongst customers in response to comms issues, and I've published information online in direct support of tackling those issues - with Lotus agreement.

I have said repeatedly (here and to Lotus staff), I love Lotus and want them to be successful. I've known many people at the factory for three decades, as well as several of the dealers and lots of owners. I have also spoken to everyone in Lotus Customer Care and met most of them in person. I have huge respect for everyone involved in designing, developing and building the car - I've told lots of them that in person. I have huge sympathy for the difficult position the LCC team have been put in, particularly with the lack of information given to them to answer our questions. I've discussed this with most of the LCC team members and they know I understand the difficulties they face.

I know the challenges involved in making major transformations to a business, dealing with foreign investors, tackling unexpected external factors outside your control. I've been a supporter and advocate of the strategy Lotus are pursuing - even to the point where I've been accused online of being a Lotus employee or being paid to do this.

Your assessment of how this is playing out inside Lotus is pure conjecture and is not what I see and hear from the people I speak to. Lotus staff see the owners community as a key part of the Lotus ethos and are supporters of forums, sharing, helping each other with info and solving problems. They can't get involved in posting officially, but are regular providers of info and private chats across lots of forums. They also know about the concerns of customers and can see for themselves what is going on within Lotus that is contributing to that. For many of them, they have no way to influence that being resolved. They don't resent customers for being frustrated, nor for customers raising those concerns - they know it is directed at a few key areas that they also wish were being tackled. In the meantime they are focused on their part in getting these brilliant cars out to us and know that is the most important thing for us, which we fully support them in trying to achieve.

We all know what the fundamental problems are from a customer perspective. Highlighting and repeating those when no actions are being taken is entirely legitimate. Calling out the lack of progress and action, when Lotus have acknowledged there are issues they need to address and say they are going to address them is also fair game. I am not the only one who is saying this: there has been no significant improvement in the customer experience and customer comms since the reveal in July 2021. This is a management issue.

You're welcome, although I have to say I'm not at all surprised by the response. You are again deliberately trying to evade the point I made which had nothing to do with legitimizing how Lotus are behaving. Nice job cleaning up all the vitriol by calling it "anyone else who points out shortcomings", even though in the very first sentence of what I wrote I stated "It's one thing to point out objectively, that there's a problem, or an area that needs improvement. People will take that feedback seriously without resenting you." You and others in here have gone way beyond merely pointing out shortcomings. I noticed it over a month ago and started to caution about it.

Now, take note how you reacted by me simply saying it's wiser to be civil than mock, belittle and insult. What if I started a thread with memes mocking Tom? Or saying negative things about you, your performance, how you repeatedly fail to do something I think you should do? How do you think you'd react? Censor me? Ban me? Restrict my ability to post in here? Would you react positively or negatively? There's a problem here Tom, and the fact that you saw what I posted as a "lecture" is part of it. You see absolutely nothing wrong with what you and others have been doing in here, and now can't understand the reaction you're getting from Lotus. You lecture me because I'm saying things you don't like and don't want to hear; even though I'm doing exactly what you think you're doing to Lotus, except I'm not mocking, belittling or calling you a failure; I'm merely 'pointing out shortcomings', highlighting and repeating that when no changes are being made, a practice which you yourself say is entirely legitimate. How does that make you feel? I'm doing this for the same reasons you are; I'm doing it because I want things to improve. There's a risk involved though, in saying things about other people's performance. You're a mod now, and can ban me completely. I'm not saying these things for me; I know it's not going to make me popular. I'm saying it as a caution for you and others; people react to what you say about them, just as you have here in this post.

Look at the reaction you've now gotten from Lotus; do you honestly believe it's just because you were posting info that people in here were hoping to find out about? You've been doing that for over a year without suddenly getting a cold shoulder. Something has changed and you've noticed it. What do you think it could be? Their reaction to you has nothing to do with me or my "conjecture" as you put it. My post was to give you a possible insight as to why you might be getting what appears to be somewhat of a cold shoulder now. Read back through all your posts where you mock them, laugh at them, insult them for not doing what you think they should do. Maybe you don't realize you've been doing it as much as you have, which is why I've been cautioning about it. Something has changed.

There's such a thing as going too far, and this is the edge of that point for me. I truly hope you get things worked out and there's no hard feelings at Lotus towards you, but I've said my piece about all that and I'm done. I'm just going to wait for my car now, and look forward to driving it.

 

[emiraspain]

From my experience of owning 2 Caterhams, I can say I had them for a total of 8 years and never lost a penny in depreciation. The only problem with buying a new one, which I found out last week, is there is a 11 month wait from deposit to delivery.

11 months is fine with me, I had heard it was closer to 18... so 11 is good news .

 

[Leonard]

You're welcome, although I have to say I'm not at all surprised by the response. You are again deliberately trying to evade the point I made which had nothing to do with legitimizing how Lotus are behaving. Nice job cleaning up all the vitriol by calling it "anyone else who points out shortcomings", even though in the very first sentence of what I wrote I stated "It's one thing to point out objectively, that there's a problem, or an area that needs improvement. People will take that feedback seriously without resenting you." You and others in here have gone way beyond merely pointing out shortcomings. I noticed it over a month ago and started to caution about it.

Now, take note how you reacted by me simply saying it's wiser to be civil than mock, belittle and insult. What if I started a thread with memes mocking Tom? Or saying negative things about you, your performance, how you repeatedly fail to do something I think you should do? How do you think you'd react? Censor me? Ban me? Restrict my ability to post in here? Would you react positively or negatively? There's a problem here Tom, and the fact that you saw what I posted as a "lecture" is part of it. You see absolutely nothing wrong with what you and others have been doing in here, and now can't understand the reaction you're getting from Lotus. You lecture me because I'm saying things you don't like and don't want to hear; even though I'm doing exactly what you think you're doing to Lotus, except I'm not mocking, belittling or calling you a failure; I'm merely 'pointing out shortcomings', highlighting and repeating that when no changes are being made, a practice which you yourself say is entirely legitimate. How does that make you feel? I'm doing this for the same reasons you are; I'm doing it because I want things to improve. There's a risk involved though, in saying things about other people's performance. You're a mod now, and can ban me completely. I'm not saying these things for me; I know it's not going to make me popular. I'm saying it as a caution for you and others; people react to what you say about them, just as you have here in this post.

Look at the reaction you've now gotten from Lotus; do you honestly believe it's just because you were posting info that people in here were hoping to find out about? You've been doing that for over a year without suddenly getting a cold shoulder. Something has changed and you've noticed it. What do you think it could be? Their reaction to you has nothing to do with me or my "conjecture" as you put it. My post was to give you a possible insight as to why you might be getting what appears to be somewhat of a cold shoulder now. Read back through all your posts where you mock them, laugh at them, insult them for not doing what you think they should do. Maybe you don't realize you've been doing it as much as you have, which is why I've been cautioning about it. Something has changed.

There's such a thing as going too far, and this is the edge of that point for me. I truly hope you get things worked out and there's no hard feelings at Lotus towards you, but I've said my piece about all that and I'm done. I'm just going to wait for my car now, and look forward to driving it.

No ill will towards you either.
But thank you for your insight.
I did not know that Lotus was a God to be revered and beyond reproach.
If I had known I would have behaved differently.
God forbid I thought of them as some large conglomerate peddling their 80k pound luxury wares with no care for the provider of such small recompense

 

[Lotustoronto]

You're welcome, although I have to say I'm not at all surprised by the response. You are again deliberately trying to evade the point I made which had nothing to do with legitimizing how Lotus are behaving. Nice job cleaning up all the vitriol by calling it "anyone else who points out shortcomings", even though in the very first sentence of what I wrote I stated "It's one thing to point out objectively, that there's a problem, or an area that needs improvement. People will take that feedback seriously without resenting you." You and others in here have gone way beyond merely pointing out shortcomings. I noticed it over a month ago and started to caution about it.

Now, take note how you reacted by me simply saying it's wiser to be civil than mock, belittle and insult. What if I started a thread with memes mocking Tom? Or saying negative things about you, your performance, how you repeatedly fail to do something I think you should do? How do you think you'd react? Censor me? Ban me? Restrict my ability to post in here? Would you react positively or negatively? There's a problem here Tom, and the fact that you saw what I posted as a "lecture" is part of it. You see absolutely nothing wrong with what you and others have been doing in here, and now can't understand the reaction you're getting from Lotus. You lecture me because I'm saying things you don't like and don't want to hear; even though I'm doing exactly what you think you're doing to Lotus, except I'm not mocking, belittling or calling you a failure; I'm merely 'pointing out shortcomings', highlighting and repeating that when no changes are being made, a practice which you yourself say is entirely legitimate. How does that make you feel? I'm doing this for the same reasons you are; I'm doing it because I want things to improve. There's a risk involved though, in saying things about other people's performance. You're a mod now, and can ban me completely. I'm not saying these things for me; I know it's not going to make me popular. I'm saying it as a caution for you and others; people react to what you say about them, just as you have here in this post.

Look at the reaction you've now gotten from Lotus; do you honestly believe it's just because you were posting info that people in here were hoping to find out about? You've been doing that for over a year without suddenly getting a cold shoulder. Something has changed and you've noticed it. What do you think it could be? Their reaction to you has nothing to do with me or my "conjecture" as you put it. My post was to give you a possible insight as to why you might be getting what appears to be somewhat of a cold shoulder now. Read back through all your posts where you mock them, laugh at them, insult them for not doing what you think they should do. Maybe you don't realize you've been doing it as much as you have, which is why I've been cautioning about it. Something has changed.

There's such a thing as going too far, and this is the edge of that point for me. I truly hope you get things worked out and there's no hard feelings at Lotus towards you, but I've said my piece about all that and I'm done. I'm just going to wait for my car now, and look forward to driving it.

@Eagle7 I do not think you should be banned/restricted... I appreciate the different point of view and even can agree with some points. I will leave it there as I don't feel the need to fuel any flames further. I will say the fact that you do believe it possible that Lotus has in some way retaliated against forum members over criticisms is fairly surprising. Perhaps more possible than I thought. Either way, your past posts have been very helpful to many people I am sure, so to not have your opinions expressed / shared would be a disservice to the community IMO.

 

[Leonard]

Just wondering Leonard, what car are you sitting in?

It's an El Duderino (73 Ford Gran Torino)

 

[roundincircles]

Lotus must be highly entertained by this thread . There they are trying to arrange a production schedule based on the ever changing sequence of incoming parts…….to think they have time ,or motivation, to do anything else would be surprising , beyond belief.

Just this week China just put 13 million people in lockdown(based on 3 cases of covid) with fresh component supply/logistic implications. Sure, communication could be different…….I’m not waiting for it to change whilst the logistics remains ever changing and uncertain.

 

[Scruff111S]

It's an El Duderino (73 Ford Gran Torino)

Is that the 5 litre v8 Starsky and Hutch car?

 

[Leonard]

Lotus must be highly entertained by this thread . There they are trying to arrange a production schedule based on the ever changing sequence of incoming parts…….to think they have time ,or motivation, to do anything else would be surprising , beyond belief.

Just this week China just put 13 million people in lockdown(based on 3 cases of covid) with fresh component supply/logistic implications. Sure, communication could be different…….I’m not waiting for it to change whilst the logistics remains ever changing and uncertain.

Any negativity has only ever really been focused at lack of comms and engagement and that has nothing to do with production. If they literally have all hands on deck producing cars that there is nobody left to send an email then they really are in trouble. I don't understand why it's this way, but someone at Lotus has obviously decided that is how it will be It doesn't look like its going to change so that's that. Interesting decision for a direct to consumer brand.
Everything else is just forum car chat.
That was until.... "TomEgate".... dum dum dummmmmm!!! (queue sinister noise)

 

[Leonard]

Is that the 5 litre v8 Starsky and Hutch car?

No it wasn't that good
You do know that isn't actually me don't you? #I wish

The Big Lebowski (1998) ⭐ 8.1 | Comedy, Crime

1h 57m | R

m.imdb.com

 

[roundincircles]

Any negativity has only ever really been focused at lack of comms and engagement and that has nothing to do with production. If they literally have all hands on deck producing cars that there is nobody left to send an email then they really are in trouble. I don't understand why it's this way, but someone at Lotus has obviously decided that is how it will be It doesn't look like its going to change so that's that. Interesting decision for a direct to consumer brand.
Everything else is just forum car chat.
That was until.... "TomEgate".... dum dum dummmmmm!!! (queue sinister noise)

Sure, whatever. I was referring to the comments on how Lotus manage its business. Negativity is par for the course when expectations are misaligned......and get skew whiff with no communication.

The management behaviour is set by the measuring sticks applied to them ( and the CEO's attitude). So without knowing what those measuring sticks are we can only speculate why they behave as they do. And if the incentive schemes are geared towards financial goals, customers are way down the list for attention until output approaches order intake.

It's 'tyresome' for sure......but, hopefully, it will improve once cars get released into the wild in a land far far away.

 

[Mistral]

You're welcome, although I have to say I'm not at all surprised by the response. You are again deliberately trying to evade the point I made which had nothing to do with legitimizing how Lotus are behaving. Nice job cleaning up all the vitriol by calling it "anyone else who points out shortcomings", even though in the very first sentence of what I wrote I stated "It's one thing to point out objectively, that there's a problem, or an area that needs improvement. People will take that feedback seriously without resenting you." You and others in here have gone way beyond merely pointing out shortcomings. I noticed it over a month ago and started to caution about it.

Now, take note how you reacted by me simply saying it's wiser to be civil than mock, belittle and insult. What if I started a thread with memes mocking Tom? Or saying negative things about you, your performance, how you repeatedly fail to do something I think you should do? How do you think you'd react? Censor me? Ban me? Restrict my ability to post in here? Would you react positively or negatively? There's a problem here Tom, and the fact that you saw what I posted as a "lecture" is part of it. You see absolutely nothing wrong with what you and others have been doing in here, and now can't understand the reaction you're getting from Lotus. You lecture me because I'm saying things you don't like and don't want to hear; even though I'm doing exactly what you think you're doing to Lotus, except I'm not mocking, belittling or calling you a failure; I'm merely 'pointing out shortcomings', highlighting and repeating that when no changes are being made, a practice which you yourself say is entirely legitimate. How does that make you feel? I'm doing this for the same reasons you are; I'm doing it because I want things to improve. There's a risk involved though, in saying things about other people's performance. You're a mod now, and can ban me completely. I'm not saying these things for me; I know it's not going to make me popular. I'm saying it as a caution for you and others; people react to what you say about them, just as you have here in this post.

Look at the reaction you've now gotten from Lotus; do you honestly believe it's just because you were posting info that people in here were hoping to find out about? You've been doing that for over a year without suddenly getting a cold shoulder. Something has changed and you've noticed it. What do you think it could be? Their reaction to you has nothing to do with me or my "conjecture" as you put it. My post was to give you a possible insight as to why you might be getting what appears to be somewhat of a cold shoulder now. Read back through all your posts where you mock them, laugh at them, insult them for not doing what you think they should do. Maybe you don't realize you've been doing it as much as you have, which is why I've been cautioning about it. Something has changed.

There's such a thing as going too far, and this is the edge of that point for me. I truly hope you get things worked out and there's no hard feelings at Lotus towards you, but I've said my piece about all that and I'm done. I'm just going to wait for my car now, and look forward to driving it.

It would be churlish to suggest that Lotus have been anything other than brilliant in customer communications and providing information about the Emira since it's public launch in July 2021. Indeed, the transition to the new sales model has been utterly seamless too. The configurator renditions and release of photos from the factory were so good that the most early depositers were able to make their choices without difficulty. Despite that, a few grumbled so a well meaning forum member from Southern California thought that they could better Lotus' efforts and produced alternative renditions which, although excellent, were still not as good as the official ones. Many depositers still had questions about the Emira, despite the photos and information produced by the factory and Lotus Customer Care were able to provide clear and consistent responses. The whole buying process of this wonderful sports car has been the best I've ever experienced and it's immensely gratifying to know that Lotus values each and every buyer as they do. Not long to wait now. Or should I say soon?

 

[Scruff111S]

No it wasn't that good
You do know that isn't actually me don't you? #I wish

The Big Lebowski (1998) ⭐ 8.1 | Comedy, Crime

1h 57m | R

m.imdb.com

⁰Actually, on closer inspection it is a 4 door. So is that you on your profile picture?

 

[Lankan]

Correct, I am giving Lotus the opportunity to explain what aspects of my spec are causing my car to be delayed more than cars that are now being delivered before mine, to people who placed deposits months later than me.

We all know what the potential differences in spec are and you can infer a lot from people posting online about what's getting built in Sept and which cars are only delayed one month rather than my two months. I don't have an auto gearbox (one source of longer delays). I do have tracker and Homelink, which for the first 24 hours looked like a factor until a few people with Sept build popped up to say they had tracker or Homelink or both. Paint colour, interior trim, suspension, wheel choice, caliper colour, privacy glass and full black pack are not factors.

The other concerning point is their email was clearly specific to me and not the generic responses they are sending to all the dozens of people asking "when's my car arriving". Plus they made reference to forum activity, which I had not mentioned in my questions.

Up until recently, Customer Care have been incredibly helpful to me. Often they don't have the necessary info, but many times they have gone off to other teams at Hethel to find answers. At Goodwood they (and others) went off to find the right experts to answer my questions. They knew several of my questions originated from here (why would I ask about auto gearboxes, for example, as I haven't ordered one) and that the answers would be published. I checked (as I always do) to make sure nothing was sensitive and it could be published. I was asked not to publish about the KEF power increase.

Now they seem to be implying there's a problem with me asking about things and publishing the answers. That appears to be why they have refused to answer my questions. Or possibly because there isn't a fact-based explanation and they are avoiding that issue.

As well as the "useful info" I post on here, I've been vocal about shortcomings in how Lotus have tackled various things such as comms, customer care and the rollout of the UK direct model. I hope I have been rational and fact-based about those. I'm not the only person to have made these points. I know some people at Lotus have considered my comments unwelcome or unfair, including some senior people. I know some people at Lotus have tried to dismiss or downplay my comments by suggesting I'm part of the "old guard", not part of the future Lotus demographic, a troublemaker, trying to make a name for myself in the owners community. Perhaps that helps them divert attention from where the real issues are.

It would be very disheartening to find they have deliberately delayed my car. I really hope that isn't the case. I have been to Hethel several times and also met senior Lotus people at events like Goodwood, and have called, messaged and exchanged emails with them. They have multiple ways of contacting me if they wanted to engage, and off the record dialogue has happened before. They just need to explain what is going on with my build sequence. At the moment it looks like someone told LCC to stonewall me and that there might be reasons beyond parts supply issues causing some of the delay.

Just catching up on here, and, wow, didn't expect to read this.

@TomE, that is rather scandalous if Lotus are deliberately stonewalling you, which I certainly hope isn't the case - it would be an own goal if it is!

 

[Eagle7]

It would be churlish to suggest that Lotus have been anything other than brilliant in customer communications and providing information about the Emira since it's public launch in July 2021. Indeed, the transition to the new sales model has been utterly seamless too. The configurator renditions and release of photos from the factory were so good that the most early depositers were able to make their choices without difficulty. Despite that, a few grumbled so a well meaning forum member from Southern California thought that they could better Lotus' efforts and produced alternative renditions which, although excellent, were still not as good as the official ones. Many depositers still had questions about the Emira, despite the photos and information produced by the factory and Lotus Customer Care were able to provide clear and consistent responses. The whole buying process of this wonderful sports car has been the best I've ever experienced and it's immensely gratifying to know that Lotus values each and every buyer as they do. Not long to wait now. Or should I say soon?

That was just SO cute, and only serves to demonstrate you don't have a reasonable defense, and you know it.

 

[Mistral]

That was just SO cute, and only serves to demonstrate you don't have a reasonable defense, and you know it.

On the contrary. It demonstrates very clearly that you are an apologist for the indefensible, without the need for reams of boring text.

 

[EspritGuy]

Any negativity has only ever really been focused at lack of comms and engagement and that has nothing to do with production. If they literally have all hands on deck producing cars that there is nobody left to send an email then they really are in trouble. I don't understand why it's this way, but someone at Lotus has obviously decided that is how it will be It doesn't look like its going to change so that's that. Interesting decision for a direct to consumer brand.
Everything else is just forum car chat.
That was until.... "TomEgate".... dum dum dummmmmm!!! (queue sinister noise)

Now that production/delivery is about to enter the 30 day cycle,
news that the Lotus merchandise e-store is open has me wondering if 'I survived the Emira delivery kerfuffle" tee shirts will be offered?
Or one might be provided with your keys?

 

[Eagle7]

On the contrary. It demonstrates very clearly that you are an apologist for the indefensible, without the need for reams of boring text.

The indefensible? You mean the vitriol, mocking, belittling? I'm not apologizing for that at all; on the contrary.

 

[TomE]

Lotus must be highly entertained by this thread . There they are trying to arrange a production schedule based on the ever changing sequence of incoming parts…….to think they have time ,or motivation, to do anything else would be surprising , beyond belief.

Just this week China just put 13 million people in lockdown(based on 3 cases of covid) with fresh component supply/logistic implications. Sure, communication could be different…….I’m not waiting for it to change whilst the logistics remains ever changing and uncertain.

That’s exactly why I'm surprised. Of course they’re busy juggling all the complexities of getting parts in and working out what they can build when, against a backdrop of ever-changing supplier issues. Customer Care are so busy responding to people asking about their cars that they are using template response emails. They're also delayed from completing and issuing more customer-specific info to people, because of the volume of inbound customer queries.

And yet someone outside the core LCC team had time to write a very specific email to me, referencing forum activity and refusing to provide information. As James has discovered at Concours today, Lotus will happily give him all the details he wants about his specific order when he's on the Lotus stand with someone from Customer Care. It's easy to feel a bit paranoid in this situation but I'm keeping an open mind, as I know Lotus are more prone to cock-ups than conspiracies. There's evidence suggesting it could be either, or both.

 

[disgruntled]

Please can someone turn the American off now, or put him back in his box - the constant repeating of the same self-centred sanctimonious drivel is boring me now