Any idea which version is lightest weight ?

[kratedisease]

... But a Cayman GTS 4.0 is only 1,405kg. With a V6. A Ferrari F8 with 710bhp turbocharged V8 is 1,435kg. The Emira really is not light, in any way whatsoever.

CAYMAN

Curb weight (Manual)	3,166 lb
Curb weight (PDK (Automatic))	3,234 lb

This is from Porsche web site

You may have DRY weight ( no fluids)

 

[FederGigant]

The KEF thing is a bit of a bummer for me now. The give us speaker grills without any speakers behind them, which is ridiculous in the first place. Then the tweeters are not even close to where they should be. I just hope that KEF did some DSP magic to figure that out, but we should probably not expect too much from the system.

 

[digilotus]

The KEF thing is a bit of a bummer for me now. The give us speaker grills without any speakers behind them, which is ridiculous in the first place. Then the tweeters are not even close to where they should be. I just hope that KEF did some DSP magic to figure that out, but we should probably not expect too much from the system.

I just looked at the configurator interior view and it seems that there are tweeter speaker grills in the A-pillar. So maybe we'll be ok! If that's the case then the japanse spec sheet may be incorrect.

 

[FederGigant]

CAYMAN

Curb weight (Manual)	3,166 lb
Curb weight (PDK (Automatic))	3,234 lb

This is from Porsche web site

You may have DRY weight ( no fluids)

On the German website, they state 1.405kg DIN weight manual and 1.435kg DIN weight PDK, so you either get more standard equipment (we get a steering wheel, two seats and four tires. The rest is extra.), or they are just tweaking our figures. The F8 Tributos weight however is a dry figure, so it is heavier than the Emira (roughly 60-80 kilos) even with the excessive use of carbon fiber. Nonetheless this is not a fair comparison as I already stated.

 

[FederGigant]

I just looked at the configurator interior view and it seems that there are tweeter speaker grills in the A-pillar. So maybe we'll be ok! If that's the case then the japanse spec sheet may be incorrect.

The grills are definitely there. But I could imagine that they are only there to be used with the standard sound system. I know it the other way around. If you buy a standard Crafter for example, you get the a pillar grills with nothing behind it, because it only uses one full range speaker per door. If you get the four-speaker setup for a premium, than you get tweeters. In the Emira, you obviously get a Tweeter delete if speccing the better sound system. Counting one Uni-Q as two speakers is ok with me, because it technically is a tweeter and a mid woofer combined. This means six speakers for left, right, and center, plus two woofers behind the seats, plus two speakers for the fresh-air subwoofer. The website clearly states that the KEF system consists of ten speakers, so there is nothing left for a-pillar tweeters.

Edit: On this pic from the Autocar Review, the a-pillar speaker grill looks perfectly empty for me:

 

[FederGigant]

Please do not panic, everyone.
Carplay can work just fine with bluetooth alone.
I have confirmed that the genuine CarPlay in Japanese Mazda cars is connected only by Bluetooth.

I have a Mazda MX-5/Miata with CarPlay fitted to it and there is nothing working without the Cable. Not even a phone call. You can't get to the CarPlay menu, whilst your phone is not connected via a Cable. If you connect via Bluetooth only, you have to use the Mazda UI.

 

[KJD]

the KEF system consists of ten speakers

Ten channels isn’t it. Frequency channels.

With 3 Uni-Q speakers (so 3x mids combined with 3x tweeters) and a fresh air sub.
Technically 7 speakers.

 

[Wolfram]

Maybe you should read correctly. A V6 first edition is 1447kg. The 1405kg from the GTS 4.0 is without any extras. And as we all might know, everything is an extra in a Porsche. You have to add 20.000€ to get close to the Emira FE spec. Do you think those 20.000€ worth of extras don't add any weight?
The Ferrari is three times the price (at least). Therefore you could use more exotic materials to get it lighter. Silly comparison... The Emira is as light as it could possibly be for it's dimensions, power, features and price point.

What am I supposed to have not read? What exactly do you have to add to a base Cayman GTS to meet Emira V6 spec and that have any weight penalty? You *can* add lots of extras to personalise your car, but the Cayman already has a lot of the things Lotus don't incorporate at least partly due to weight (e.g. adjustable suspension damping). And it is still lighter.

I just went on the Porsche configurator and a Cayman 4.0 GTS specced to Emira V6 equivalent (re: seats, climate control etc.), with metallic paint and two-tone leather interior, without any personalisation extras is £79,516.

 

[FederGigant]

What am I supposed to have not read? What exactly do you have to add to a base Cayman GTS to meet Emira V6 spec and that have any weight penalty? You *can* add lots of extras to personalise your car, but the Cayman already has a lot of the things Lotus don't incorporate at least partly due to weight (e.g. adjustable suspension damping). And it is still lighter.

I just went on the Porsche configurator and a Cayman 4.0 GTS specced to Emira V6 equivalent (re: seats, climate control etc.), with metallic paint and two-tone leather interior, without any personalisation extras is £79,516.

When I spec it to V6 FE spec it's another 20.000€ which leads me to 104.000€. Maybe you get more for your money in the UK. However I was just fair and added the things the Emira has as well, like heated 18 way seats, Burmester, etc. Just apples to apples and not "I don't need this and that, therefore it's lighter". If you want to play that game, simply wait for the base edition and the Emira will magically become lighter as well.
And for the adjustable suspension that the Porsche has, the Emira has heavier double wishbone suspension, way bigger brakes and bigger tires, a heavier mechanical LSD rather than an electronic one and heavier hydraulic steering rather than electric steering. What's supposed to help the handling more?

 

[FederGigant]

Ten channels isn’t it. Frequency channels.

With 3 Uni-Q speakers (so 3x mids combined with 3x tweeters) and a fresh air sub.
Technically 7 speakers.

Nope! You get three Uni-Qs (six channels, als you said), two woofers and two subwoofer chassis combined to the fresh air subwoofer. That makes ten speakers, ten channels, ten digital crossover filters (when counting a bandpass as one filter), ten everything. For the subwoofer chassis they could technically use one channel. If the woofers don't play too high in the frequency range, one channel would be fine for those two as well. Than they would need eight channels and that's what's stated in the Japanese document.

 

[Wolfram]

When I spec it to V6 FE spec it's another 20.000€ which leads me to 104.000€. Maybe you get more for your Money. However I was just fair and added the things the Emira has as well, like heated 18 way seats, Burmester, etc. Just Apples to Apples and not "I don't need this and that, therefore it's lighter. If you want to play that game, simply wait for the base edition and the Emira will magically become lighter as well.

You're not comparing apples to apples. There is absolutely no justification that the Emira's sound system will be in the same league as the £2,769 12-speaker + sub Burmester system from Porsche. I specced the uprated Bose 10-speaker system which is a much closer equivalent. The Emira has 14-way seats, so you can save £400 by speccing them in the Cayman vs the 18-way. And I hope you remembered to remove things like lane change assist and carbon fibre gear shifter which are standard in the GTS spec. Without having enough comparable information on the Emira's climate control or keyless go I left these both in the Cayman spec (£961).

I actually made a mistake; I was configuring a Boxster... The Cayman GTS 4.0 price configured as close as possible to Emira V6 is £76.658. I don't know what else you picked but my cost of extras is £9,958. But nice to actually be able to choose the spec. Here it is: http://www.porsche-code.com/PNFNFND3

 

[FederGigant]

You're not comparing apples to apples. There is absolutely no justification that the Emira's sound system will be in the same league as the £2,769 12-speaker + sub Burmester system from Porsche. I specced the uprated Bose 10-speaker system which is a much closer equivalent. The Emira has 14-way seats, so you can save £400 by speccing them in the Cayman vs the 18-way. And I hope you remembered to remove things like lane change assist and carbon fibre gear shifter which are standard in the GTS spec. Without having enough comparable information on the Emira's climate control or keyless go I left these both in the Cayman spec (£961).

I actually made a mistake; I was configuring a Boxster... The Cayman GTS 4.0 price configured as close as possible to Emira V6 is £76.658. I don't know what else you picked but my cost of extras is £9,958. But nice to actually be able to choose the spec. Here it is: http://www.porsche-code.com/PNFNFND3

You already heard the KEF system? Great, how does it sound? The only thing I heard are a lot of different Bose systems and they were all complete crap. the KEF system is expected to be a £3.000 option.
Obviously both cars have some stuff that the other car doesn't have. Big plus on the driver assistance stuff for the Porsche (for now), which are all not standard in Germany. Here is a short list: rear view camera plus parking sensors front and back + 1535€, speed limit info +333€, lane change +583€, speed limiter +321€, Porsche entry and drive +595€ (just to name a few). Of course I only added the ones which the Lotus V6 FE has optioned as well. We also have to pay 464€ for multi-function on the steering wheel and 416€ for heated seats for a 85.000€ Porsche here. Porsches seem to be way cheaper in the UK than in Germany, if all this stuff is standard there. On the other side big plus for steering, tires, brakes, LSD for the Lotus. Maybe even damping and suspension, as the PASM has to be seen as a gimmick in the Porsche, rather than a useful feature that adds to the drivability in any way, as it is no real active suspension, but rather two compromises that you can shift between. We already had this discussion elsewhere. That's all stuff that adds weight, but obviously makes for a better package on the Emiras side. In the end we have to wait and see if the better parts lead to a better driving experience of course.
All in all with the same spec the Porsche might be 10-20kg lighter. Nobody will ever feel that. On the other hand the Emira is 5cm lower and maybe it's weight is therefore lower to the ground as well. There are so many factors to consider besides the weight, it's kind of silly to even discuss it when they are so close. Saying that the Emira is heavy because the Porsche is a few kilos lighter is just trolling in my eyes.

 

[Wolfram]

You already heard the KEF system? Great, how does it sound? The only thing I heard are a lot of different Bose systems and they were all complete crap.
Obviously both cars have some stuff that the other car doesn't have. Big plus on the driver assistance stuff for the Porsche (for now), big plus for steering, damping, suspension, tires, brakes, LSD for the Lotus. All stuff that adds weight, but obviously makes for a better package. In the end we have to wait and see if the better parts lead to a better driving experience of course.

No I've not heard the KEF system - so I'm speccing the Bose system as it's technically equivalent (10 speakers). With absolutely no information from Lotus I can't see that anyone could justify saying it's equivalent to the Burmester high-end system. I have Bose specced in both my 911 and Macan and they sound just great to me.

Also, the Cayman GTS 4.0 comes with LSD as standard. Jury is still out on steering, damping, suspension etc. - we haven't had a head-to-head review, but I'm sure that will come. Looking forward to it!

 

[FederGigant]

No I've not heard the KEF system - so I'm speccing the Bose system as it's technically equivalent (10 speakers). With absolutely no information from Lotus I can't see that anyone could justify saying it's equivalent to the Burmester high-end system. I have Bose specced in both my 911 and Macan and they sound just great to me.

Also, the Cayman GTS 4.0 comes with LSD as standard. Jury is still out on steering, damping, suspension etc. - we haven't had a head-to-head review, but I'm sure that will come. Looking forward to it!

So you defy the qualities of a HiFi system by the number of speakers? Ok then. I'm quite sure however that this won't be the case. We can't tell yet, but KEF won't use an average Bose system as a reference. Nice that this whole discussion came down to speakers.
I just wanted to point out that a Porsche that is 10 kilos lighter and a 300.000€ Ferrari that is 80kg heavier don't show that the Emira is a heavy car and others did way better than Lotus.

Maybe to sum that all up:

the i4 is roughly 30kg lighter than the V6 with same spec
Base i4 is lightest at 1.405kg
V6 FE manual is 1.447kg
V6 FE automatic is 1.458kg

All weights are expected and not confirmed DIN weights. It is sure however that the mentioned weights definitely were DIN weights. DIN means: 90% fuel, 100% liquids, ready to drive but without the drivers weight.

My guess for dry weight is the above -55kg (fuel alone is 60l(capacity)*0,9(90% filled)*0,749(specific weight of one l of fuel)= 40,5kg

 

[KJD]

Nope! You get three Uni-Qs (six channels, als you said), two woofers and two subwoofer chassis combined to the fresh air subwoofer. That makes ten speakers, ten channels, ten digital crossover filters (when counting a bandpass as one filter), ten everything. For the subwoofer chassis they could technically use one channel. If the woofers don't play too high in the frequency range, one channel would be fine for those two as well. Than they would need eight channels and that's what's stated in the Japanese document.

I think we might have to agree to differ on the difference between a channel and a speaker.

Let’s see who is correct when we get our cars…

 

[FederGigant]

I think we might have to agree to differ on the difference between a channel and a speaker.

Let’s see who is correct when we get our cars…

We don't. The car definitely has 10 speakers, as stated in the Japanese document (three Uni-Qs, two woofers, two subwoofers - that's a given fact now, if we believe in this document). You need a channel for every speaker except (sub-)woofers. Three channels for three tweeters, three channels for three midrange drivers (those six are the three Uni-Qs), one channel for two woofers, one channel for two subwoofers. That's the minimum (except you prefer a mono output rather than stereo). Why do you still think that there are only the Uni-Qs and one Sub? I don't get that?

 

[KJD]

We don't. The car definitely has 10 speakers, as stated in the Japanese document (three Uni-Qs, two woofers, two subwoofers - that's a given fact now, if we believe in this document). You need a channel for every speaker except (sub-)woofers. Three channels for three tweeters, three channels for three midrange drivers (those six are the three Uni-Qs), one channel for two woofers, one channel for two subwoofers. That's the minimum (except you prefer a mono output rather than stereo). Why do you still think that there are only the Uni-Qs and one Sub? I don't get that?

I refer you to my previous answer. Let’s see.

 

[FederGigant]

Can you explain to me why you think that there will be another amount of speakers than the official Lotus document from the Lotus website states? Did you even have a look at it? Here it is again: http://www.lotus-cars.jp/news/wp-co...FIRST-EDITION-PRICE-SPEC-LIST-2021.10.29a.pdf

 

[Davebeats]

I cant read Japanese, but am excited to hear two subwoofers, should have a nice well rounded audio system

 

[Eagle7]

Here's an interesting bit of info. It looks like the standard factory sound system has 7 speakers, and the KEF has 10, and weighs 7.2 lbs more than the base system. This is from Lotus.