Any idea which version is lightest weight ?

[TomAce]

Now that we have real world weights (1486kg with full tank of fuel) thanks to Evo we can compare it to Evora figures.

Sport Auto had an Evora 400 back in 2016 on it‘s scales, 1445kg with full tank of fuel.

Emira has gained roughly 40kg over the Evora, so time to think about lighter battery and coilovers.

 

[kratedisease]

Every car is gaining weight with each new platform due to extra airbags, safety stuff and other government requirements. Even Porsche and Corvette have consistently gained weight with each new platform since the 1990's.

I am wondering what the true actual measured dry or wet weights are between the I4 engine and V6 engine.

 

[kratedisease]

3276 pounds is actually very good weight today.

The C8 weighs 3647 wet/curb..... Porsche 911 weighs 3382 with PDK.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Now that we have real world weights (1486kg with full tank of fuel) thanks to Evo we can compare it to Evora figures.

Sport Auto had an Evora 400 back in 2016 on it‘s scales, 1445kg with full tank of fuel.

Emira has gained roughly 40kg over the Evora, so time to think about lighter battery and coilovers.

I really can't believe people complained about the weight of Evora vs Emira over 40KG!? (still think the detuned V6 is the far worse crime for the Emira!)

Compared to Evora for the extra 40 KG we get;

1. KEF audio
2. Custom Infotainment
3. An interior lined in leather, carpeting, deviated stitch, centre console, cup holders, lined door pockets, multiple USb's
4. Additional - 18 mm in length and 50 MM in width resulting from a wider track
5. Easier ingress/egress
6. More sound deadening material
7. Various other items like, boot lift supports and regular battery vs Lithium etc.

I can easily see the future GT/Cup/S Emira to be below the Evora in terms of weight. Use of carbon, titanium exhaust, no KEF, carbon buckets seats, Lighter wheels, Carbon ceramic brakes, less sound deadening... etc. That too me is impressive. I think the track guys (our good friend Jethro from EVO) looking for something to compete with the GT4 will certainly get it. I think it will be in the later versions of the AMG i4 however. The Final edition V6 manual might be the swan song for the lotus manual, but just like the Evora GT before it, probably won't take down the 718 GT4. The one that everyone seem's to think that might is the AMG i4. After watching Chris Harris talk about that engine entering in the 500HP club (from tuning), and with the items I can see them taking down the weight (i4 lower weight than V6) in the Emira well below the GT4 DIN weight. This, coupled with Lotus tweaking a track bias suspension and.... I think there may be a Lotus that will topple the GT4.

 

[Leonard]

I really can't believe people complained about the weight of Evora vs Emira over 40KG!? (still think the detuned V6 is the far worse crime for the Emira!)

Compared to Evora for the extra 40 KG we get;

1. KEF audio
2. Custom Infotainment
3. An interior lined in leather, carpeting, deviated stitch, centre console, cup holders, lined door pockets, multiple USb's
4. Additional - 18 mm in length and 50 MM in width resulting from a wider track
5. Easier ingress/egress
6. More sound deadening material
7. Various other items like, boot lift supports and regular battery vs Lithium etc.

I can easily see the future GT/Cup/S Emira to be below the Evora in terms of weight. Use of carbon, titanium exhaust, no KEF, carbon buckets seats, Lighter wheels, Carbon ceramic brakes, less sound deadening... etc. That too me is impressive. I think the track guys (our friend good Jethro from EVO) looking for something to compete with the GT4 will certainly get it. I think it will be in the later versions of the AMG i4 however. The Final edition V6 manual might be the swan song for the lotus manual, but just like the Evora GT before it, probably won't take down the 718 GT4. The one that everyone seem's to think that might is the AMG i4. After watching Chris Harris talk about that engine entering in the 500HP club (from tuning), and with the items I can see them taking down the weight (i4 lower weight than V6) in the Emira well below the GT4 DIN weight. This, coupled with Lotus tweaking a track bias suspension and.... I think there may be a Lotus that will topple the GT4.

I agree on the weight. But I think a lot of folk have been comparing to the GT410 which is 130kg lighter.
A remapped (bigger turbo?) i4 with some carbon panels, lightweight seats, battery and wheels will be very potent indeed

 

[Rudolph]

I agree on the weight. But I think a lot of folk have been comparing to the GT410 which is 130kg lighter.
A remapped (bigger turbo?) i4 with some carbon panels, lightweight seats, battery and wheels will be very potent indeed

*****
Indeed the Evora GT 410 Sport IPS has a kerb weight of 139 kg less compared to the Emira V6 (manual?).......
That's almost 2 adults.......

 

[Lotustoronto]

*****
Indeed the Evora GT 410 Sport IPS has a kerb weight of 139 kg less compared to the Emira V6 (manual?).......
That's almost 2 adults.......

OK, so it's got some weight on the GT 410 Sport. However, it is considerably less expensive than the GT410, has almost the exact same 0-60 time and as I outlined above, the refinement, fit and finish and exterior design is worth the weight penalty. Let's not forget the GT410S failed to topple Porches' crown. Which for better or worse is the current measuring stick, and a worthy one at that. Would anyone purchase a GT410S over the Emira for an extra 10-25K because of 140KG? I am fairly certain the future i4 variant that will compete with a GT4 will address that weight. But the V6 manual version we are all currently talking about address' the other short falls of the Evora. Fit and finish being #1.

I only wish that the Emira V6 revved to 7K and had the 410-430 HP. To me that was the only serious mis-step in the car itself. Besides that, I think Lotus did an amazing job on it and achieved it's objective. Oh, and they epicaly failed on rollout communications, badly in fact.

 

[TomAce]

I only wish that the Emira V6 revved to 7K and had the 410-430 HP. To me that was the only serious mis-step in the car itself. Besides that, I think Lotus did an amazing job on it and achieved it's objective. Oh, and they epicaly failed on rollout communications, badly in fact.

I just wanted to show that the Emira is starting with a "weight penalty" of 40kg versus the Evora 400. So every step to a GT/S-version will carry these extra 40kg in comparison to the Evora. But as you stated the Emira has also some dynamic benefits over the Evora platform, like the wider track /wheels to egalize this regarding lap times.

Regarding engine output I'm quite optimistic, here is a dyno chart from Sport Auto (from that Evora 400 in 2016):
Crossing the 400hp mark at 6450rpm, still going strong with peak 417hp(411bhp) near the cutoff at roughly 7000 rpm.

Assuming it's the same tune they are using except with a lower 6800 redline in track mode it should still do a 410-412hp (404-406bhp).

The whole article "Supertest from Sport Auto" you can find here (in german):

Lotus Evora 400 im Supertest: Mittelmotorsportler überraschend schnell am Ring

Bei Lotus ist man sich irgendwie nie ganz sicher: Hat die Marke das Zeitliche gesegnet oder lebt sie noch? Spätestens mit dem Supertest des Evora 400 in der Grünen Hölle bestätigen die Briten Letzteres mehr denn je.

www.auto-motor-und-sport.de

 

[Lotustoronto]

So I looked a little more into the 410 Sport since I did not know its specs very well. It is a full blown track weapon for sure. BUT it's weight savings diet was more extreme than I thought...no radio, no door pockets, and carbon any where they could put it. The buckets seats looked impressive as well. I would not take a 410S over an Emira... not my cup of tea. Too focused. I realized that's why the Emira was made...to get customers that want 90% of the 410S but the looks and comfort of Emira. I am now 100% ok with the extra weight. (well maybe carbon seats and ceramic brakes would help)

 

[MCS]

if we’re honest with ourselves It doesn’t matter that much for a road car. If you have a passenger in the car and luggage in the boot do you stop having fun because you’ve added a load of extra weight? Are you making sure you’re as slim as possible, only putting a 1/4 tank of fuel in, emptying the boot and wearing linen clothes to get the most performance out of the car?

Carbon seats look super cool but would most of us notice the weight difference at any point? Unless you’re racing professionally a few pounds here and there is over thinking

Just adding some context

 

[VL3X]

if we’re honest with ourselves It doesn’t matter that much for a road car. If you have a passenger in the car and luggage in the boot do you stop having fun because you’ve added a load of extra weight? Are you making sure you’re as slim as possible, only putting a 1/4 tank of fuel in, emptying the boot and wearing linen clothes to get the most performance out of the car?

Carbon seats look super cool but would most of us notice the weight difference at any point? Unless you’re racing professionally a few pounds here and there is over thinking

Just adding some context

Agreed 100%. Unsprung weight matters more to me, so things like light weight forged wheels and 2 piece rotors are great to have from the factory on the Emira FE!

RAYS ENGINEERING stated for every 1kg (2.2lbs) of weight eliminated from unsprung weight is basically the same as eliminating 15kg (33lbs) of overall vehicle weight that your suspension has to manage...

So, let's just say forged wheels and 2 piece rotors are are something like ~4kg (8.8lbs) lighter. That's 16kg (35.27lbs) total (4 corners), right? So 16kg x 15kg = 240kg (or 529lbs) of reduced weight off suspension.

 

[Eagle7]

Agreed 100%. Unsprung weight matters more to me, so things like light weight forged wheels and 2 piece rotors are great to have from the factory on the Emira FE!

RAYS ENGINEERING stated for every 1kg (2.2lbs) of weight eliminated from unsprung weight is basically the same as eliminating 15kg (33lbs) of overall vehicle weight that your suspension has to manage...

So, let's just say forged wheels and 2 piece rotors are are something like ~4kg (8.8lbs) lighter. That's 16kg (35.27lbs) total (4 corners), right? So 16kg x 15kg = 240kg (or 529lbs) of reduced weight off suspension.

Because of the variables, there's really no simple number you can apply for something like this. Unsprung weight is simply those parts of the car that are not held up by the springs, which would be the tires, wheels, brakes, wheel hub, suspension members, shocks, etc.. Just reducing body weight can improve the handling and ride somewhat, but not dramatically unless you're removing large amounts of weight or building an all-out race car.

The real benefits are from reducing unsprung rotating weight, such as tires, wheels, brake rotors. The less weight in those components, the less power (torque) it takes to get them spinning, and the less stopping power required to slow them down. It also makes it easier for the suspension to manage the vertical movement, so the response to surface changes are quicker.

The variables are the weight of the components, and where the weight is located. The farther from the rotating center the weight is, the more torque required to get it moving. This is why getting bigger wheels that are heavier than the old ones can make the car feel less responsive. Removing 4 lbs from a brake rotor isn't as dramatic an effect as removing 4 lbs from a tire, because the weight is closer to the rotating center, but it does have an effect. The thing is with wheels though, the weight is spread out across the entire wheel, and that can vary depending on the wheel style and design, so it makes it difficult to come up with a simple black and white number for gain or loss.

I've seen all kinds of numbers thrown around of the benefits. However Al Oppenheiser who was the chief engineer in charge of the Camaro group at GM, said when developing the Z/28 they had to remove 250 lbs of static weight from the car to gain 1 second in lap time. That's static weight; not unsprung rotating weight, so for those people who think spending thousands on carbon fiber body panels is going to make a big difference... not nearly as much as you might think. A lighter body helps in the corners on a road track, but on the street, you're not cornering hard over and over again like you are on the track. Unless you have gobs of money to spend and aren't worried about the cost, those thousands are better spent on removing unsprung rotating weight if the benefits you're looking for are better acceleration.

From my experience with the cars I've modified, if you can remove 10 lbs of unsprung rotating weight out of each wheel corner, that feels like the equivalent of twice the static weight. So that would be 20 lbs per wheel, times 4 wheels equals the effect of removing about 80 lbs of static weight from the car. This is on cars that weigh about 4,000 lbs to begin with (muscle cars). The lighter the car, the more dramatic the effect is going to be. On my Alfa Romeo which is about 400 lbs lighter, removing 10 lbs from each corner made a more noticeable difference than it did on my Camaro. If you have a 4,000 lb car and add an 80 lb child in the passenger seat, it's hard to tell the difference. If you have a 3,000 lb car and add 80 lbs, you'll notice it more. Same with removing weight. If you can remove 10 lbs of unsprung rotating weight out of each corner of a 3,200 lb Emira, you'll notice it.

Basically what you feel when you remove that kind of weight is the car feels lighter in its movement; accelerates easier, responds quicker to acceleration changes when it's moving, and slows down quicker. You notice it when pulling out to pass a slower vehicle, like a big rig on the highway. It doesn't take as long to reach the speed you need to get past the truck. That's an every day benefit you'll feel on the street. There's another side benefit; you use less gas. I gained 1 mpg in my Alfa (around town) after making those changes. Normally that's not that big of a deal, but with gas prices at the moment, that savings can add up.

 

[KJD]

I think we might have to agree to differ on the difference between a channel and a speaker.

Let’s see who is correct when we get our cars…

Just going to resurrect this thread as I now have my car and I’ve had a look.

There are nine speakers in the KEF setup.

3x two way UniQs (2 door, 1 dashboard)
2x shoulder height mid size behind the seats.
1x subwoofer in the lower right behind the seats, shown here:

There is no subwoofer in the lower left.

Where that leaves the speaker v channel debate seems clear to me.

Reading the service notes, the base, 7 speaker, setup would appear to be:
2x door and 1x dashboard mid-range, 2x A-pillar tweeters, 2x shoulder height low-range behind the seats.

 

[Magicman]

Now that we have real world weights (1486kg with full tank of fuel) thanks to Evo we can compare it to Evora figures.

Sport Auto had an Evora 400 back in 2016 on it‘s scales, 1445kg with full tank of fuel.

Emira has gained roughly 40kg over the Evora, so time to think about lighter battery and coilovers.

Anyone that tells me they can feel a 2.8% weight difference between 2 cars I'm going to have to call bullshit I'm afraid

 

[Lotustoronto]

Anyone that tells me they can feel a 2.8% weight difference between 2 cars I'm going to have to call bullshit I'm afraid

In all honesty, a good carbon bucket seat will probably remove the 30KG. I think Lotus did a decent job on the weight for the fully loaded F/E's.

 

[TomAce]

Anyone that tells me they can feel a 2.8% weight difference between 2 cars I'm going to have to call bullshit I'm afraid

True, but everyone is raving about how much weight the Emira gained against it's predecessor. And I just wanted to know how much it actually is. It's more like knowing it and be able to counteract in order to solve this "problem", just for my own mental health.

And I already have the measures to solve it like this:

-17kg LiFePO4 battery
-2kg 3rd cat delete
-12kg Öhlins coilovers
-4kg Jubu forged wheels

In total 35kg less and equal to Evora GT400 weights then. Add a Komo-Tec tune to around 440hp and you are on par with a GT4 porker, finally.

 

[Eagle7]

Unless you have lots of money to throw at the car, and maximum performance all or most of the time is why you bought the car, there's a balance to consider of cost versus benefit.

The lighter battery is not going to make enough of a difference you'll be able to feel.

Deleting the 3rd cat isn't going to make any noticeable difference performance-wise; it would be strictly for sound.

Ohlins coilovers would make a handling difference only because of their superior performance compared to the factory shocks, but the minor amount of weight reduction would have a negligible effect.

The forged wheels would have the most impact on performance because they're unsprung rotating weight, but only 4 kg reduction (which is the total for the entire set, not per wheel) is not very much and would hardly be noticeable.

After spending thousands on all the mods above, you're going to hardly see any difference on the street. You would see a slight difference on the track, so if you're a track rat, it might be worth the cost. The average driver who doesn't go to the track would probably not be able to tell any difference on the street at all, other than the car is louder.

For this particular car, the power to weight ratio is where you want to focus. There are two areas that would give you the biggest bang for the buck. Number one would be adding more power via a tune, most likely the Komotec tune. They don't show a price yet for the Emira tunes, but for the Evora which uses the same engine/trans combo, they're showing an upgrade to 430 hp for under £1,700 or about $2,000 U.S.. That would give you the best value for the money and make the biggest difference in performance you'd be able to feel all the time, on the street or track.

The next area you would be able to feel would be the wheels, but in order to get a much less noticeable effect than the power tune upgrade, it's going to cost you double the cost of the power tune. It's going to be real easy to start racking up thousands in costs for performance mods (which is mod disease) for very little gain, and it becomes very easy to suddenly ruin the daily usability of the car.

My recommendation is to wait until your 3 year warranty has expired, which will give Komotec and others time to work on their upgrades and mod options, then get the power tune upgrade first if you want more performance. That may do it for you and you won't need to throw more thousands at the car for other mods. Throwing thousands at the car to remove 30kg or so of weight isn't going to make enough of a difference to be worth that kind of money. The power tune will be the mod to get.

 

[FederGigant]

For what it's worth I just weighed the car with a 100 percent full fuel tank. Turns out it weighs 1480kg.

 

[Porter]

For what it's worth I just weighed the car with a 100 percent full fuel tank. Turns out it weighs 1480kg. View attachment 23822

This is excellent thank you, and great to see the cross weights.

That is actually exceptional for a stock car, the cross weighting is literally only 1kg difference. Most people can't get a car that close with the use of coilovers, and a professional doing the balancing.

FL + RR = 739.5 kg
FR + RL = 740.5 kg
Difference = 1.0 kg

 

[FederGigant]

This is excellent thank you, and great to see the cross weights.

That is actually exceptional for a stock car, the cross weighting is literally only 1kg difference. Most people can't get a car that close with the use of coilovers, and a professional doing the balancing.

FL + RR = 739.5 kg
FR + RL = 740.5 kg
Difference = 1.0 kg

Yeah, I was quite impressed as well. Really good job done by Lotus.