Canadian Allocations

[Silver Storm]

I think people may be underestimating the luxury car market in Vancouver somewhat. Still, I think that Lotus Vancouver may not be getting as many cars as they have suggested.

Agree, there’s a lot of high end cars here in Vancouver. I almost practically see either a Lamborghini, Ferrari or Mclaren every day lol. And that’s not even mentioning MB, Land Rovers etc which are a dime a dozen..

 

[CanadianEmira]

Agree, there’s a lot of high end cars here in Vancouver. I almost practically see either a Lamborghini, Ferrari or Mclaren every day lol. And that’s not even mentioning MB, Land Rovers etc which are a dime a dozen..

Yeah. I'm in the Point Grey area and I see supercars every day. I don't even look twice anymore. Lamborghini Uruses buzz past en masse every morning on their way to UBC. $100k+ German or English SUVs are very much the norm on the west side.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I think people may be underestimating the luxury car market in Vancouver somewhat. Still, I think that Lotus Vancouver may not be getting as many cars as they have suggested.

I am not underestimating the amount of high end cars sold in Van City. I am sure it is the most per capita in Canada.

To say it will get more allocations than all other Lotus dealerships in Canada combined will receive is just too far fetched. Yes Van sells a lot of cars, but the GTA and Montreal aren't exactly slumming it.

Besides, when comparing sports car sales against the USA and places like LA, Florida, Texas and Nevada unfortunately we are not even close in comparison for market share. Maybe Vancouver would place in the top 10-15 cities for sports car sales on a per capita basis, perhaps even higher. However, for volume it would be impossible. Naples Florida dealer or Galpin LA dealer will sell more Emira's than all of Canada combined. Let's not be silly here, the US has close to the same amount of millionaires as Canada has people. It's not even remotely close.

 

[CanadianEmira]

I am not underestimating the amount of high end cars sold in Van City. I am sure it is the most per capita in Canada.

To say it will get more allocations than all other Lotus dealerships in Canada combined will receive is just too far fetched. Yes Van sells a lot of cars, but the GTA and Montreal aren't exactly slumming it.

Besides, when comparing sports car sales against the USA and places like LA, Florida, Texas and Nevada unfortunately we are not even close in comparison for market share. Maybe Vancouver would place in the top 10-15 cities for sports car sales on a per capita basis, perhaps even higher. However, for volume it would be impossible. Naples Florida dealer or Galpin LA dealer will sell more Emira's than all of Canada combined. Let's not be silly here, the US has close to the same amount of millionaires as Canada has people. It's not even remotely close.

I believe on a per capita basis, Vancouver is #1 for luxury vehicles in North America.

Sources:

Vancouver is the supercar capital of North America | News

Daily Hive

dailyhive.com

If you want to understand the global collector car scene, go to Vancouver - Hagerty Media

You won’t find the supercar capital of North America in South Florida, Beverly Hills, or Silicon Valley. It's much farther north ... in Vancouver, B.C.

www.hagerty.com

Metro Vancouver the luxury car capital of North America - BC | Globalnews.ca

The affluence driving Metro Vancouver real estate prices is well documented, and it appears those buyers are willing to pay big bucks for something suitable to park in their garages.

globalnews.ca

No question there is more wealth in the United States and that the total volume of car sales there will eclipse Canada. But the demographics in Vancouver are such that luxury cars are overrepresented here when compared to its population. There is also an enormous amount of foreign wealth in Vancouver, so statistics about Canadian millionaires aren't particularly useful.

 

[Silver Storm]

I believe on a per capita basis, Vancouver is #1 for luxury vehicles in North America.

Sources:

Vancouver is the supercar capital of North America | News

Daily Hive

dailyhive.com

If you want to understand the global collector car scene, go to Vancouver - Hagerty Media

You won’t find the supercar capital of North America in South Florida, Beverly Hills, or Silicon Valley. It's much farther north ... in Vancouver, B.C.

www.hagerty.com

Metro Vancouver the luxury car capital of North America - BC | Globalnews.ca

The affluence driving Metro Vancouver real estate prices is well documented, and it appears those buyers are willing to pay big bucks for something suitable to park in their garages.

globalnews.ca

No question there is more wealth in the United States and that the total volume of car sales there will eclipse Canada. But the demographics in Vancouver are such that luxury cars are overrepresented here when compared to its population. There is also an enormous amount of foreign wealth in Vancouver, so statistics about Canadian millionaires aren't particularly useful.

Agree. As an example I know for a fact that there was one Lamborghini Reventon in Vancouver. Obtained and sold by SR Auto Group (local exotics car dealer and tuner). That’s 1 of 20. Wikipedia said “Of the original 20 coupes, 10 were delivered to the United States, seven to Europe, one to Canada, and two to Asia.” And Vancouver got the sole Canadian allocation.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I do not disagree that on a per capita basis, for the size of population that Vancouver will surely be right up there, I even said in my original post I am not under estimating how many high end cars are sold over there in comparison. (I said top ten, maybe it's number 1) It is a lot from a per capita basis. But from a volume perspective, which is what we are discussing when saying Lotus of Van is getting over 10% of North American allocations for the Emira is just crazy talk. Will Lotus of Van get more allocations than say Gentry or John Scotti in Montreal, yes they probably will. But 70 +/- V1 F/E was the total allocation amount for Canada. Not possible they received it all.

I don't know about every car brand, but Porsche sells WAY more cars in the Montreal - Windsor corridor than in BC. Which is about 50% of the Canadian population. I am sure it's the same for Aston, Ferrari, Lambo etc.

Porsche Dealerships in BC - 4
Porsche Dealerships in Ontario/Quebec - 12 (soon to be 13)

Lotus Dealerships in BC - 1
Lotus Dealerships in Ontario/Quebec - 3

Ferrari has 4 dealerships in Canada - 3 in Ontario/Quebec and 1 in Van.

You can see the trend can't you..... Lotus of Van did NOT recieve any where near the allocations they said and are mis-leading customers.

 

[eriegz]

I do not disagree that on a per capita basis, for the size of population that Vancouver will surely be right up there, I even said in my original post I am not under estimating how many high end cars are sold over there in comparison. (I said top ten, maybe it's number 1) It is a lot from a per capita basis. But from a volume perspective, which is what we are discussing when saying Lotus of Van is getting over 10% of North American allocations for the Emira is just crazy talk. Will Lotus of Van get more allocations than say Gentry or John Scotti in Montreal, yes they probably will. But 70 +/- V1 F/E was the total allocation amount for Canada. Not possible they received it all.

I don't know about every car brand, but Porsche sells WAY more cars in the Montreal - Windsor corridor than in BC. Which is about 50% of the Canadian population. I am sure it's the same for Aston, Ferrari, Lambo etc.

Porsche Dealerships in BC - 4
Porsche Dealerships in Ontario/Quebec - 12 (soon to be 13)

Lotus Dealerships in BC - 1
Lotus Dealerships in Ontario/Quebec - 3

Ferrari has 4 dealerships in Canada - 3 in Ontario/Quebec and 1 in Van.

You can see the trend can't you..... Lotus of Van did NOT recieve any where near the allocations they said and are mis-leading customers.

I also feel like there's many subtly-different forms of lying these days:

• "It would be great if this were true, therefore it is"
• "I choose to believe that this is true"
• "This is simply what I was told, and so if it's wrong then it's that person's fault"
• "This isn't true right now, but I'm sure it will be very soon"
• "This ought to be true, and it's not my fault if it isn't!"

The dealership / salesman could be doing any one of these, intentionally or otherwise.

 

[Emira2222]

With the lack of communication for Lotus, it appears evident to me that there is a considerable amount of misinformation being provided to (and from) our dealers. Therefore, they are all likely telling us some variation of their own truth.

Based on my discussion with Gentry Lane (Toronto) last weekend and the information outlined in these forums, both Toronto dealers (Gentry and Oakville) currently have over 200 allocations each (400+ total). I believe I read somewhere that Montreal also has around 200. I wouldn't doubt that Vancouver has the most allocations. However, with only 70 FE 1.0 being delivered to Canada, I highly doubt all of them are going to Vancouver.

Unless we actually receive communication directly from Lotus to their customers, I really don't think we will know the "actual" truth. What a shit show! lol

 

[TomE]

The communication direct from Lotus is no more accurate or truthful!

 

[Hell4Leather]

With the lack of communication for Lotus, it appears evident to me that there is a considerable amount of misinformation being provided to (and from) our dealers. Therefore, they are all likely telling us some variation of their own truth.

Based on my discussion with Gentry Lane (Toronto) last weekend and the information outlined in these forums, both Toronto dealers (Gentry and Oakville) currently have over 200 allocations each (400+ total). I believe I read somewhere that Montreal also has around 200. I wouldn't doubt that Vancouver has the most allocations. However, with only 70 FE 1.0 being delivered to Canada, I highly doubt all of them are going to Vancouver.

Unless we actually receive communication directly from Lotus to their customers, I really don't think we will know the "actual" truth. What a shit show! lol

Allocations or deposits? 400 allocations seems like a lot. My dealer only got like 20 or 30 and that’s Dallas Tx. 1 or 2 exotic dealers there as well

 

[Emira2222]

The communication direct from Lotus is no more accurate or truthful!

Good point!

 

[Emira2222]

Allocations or deposits? 400 allocations seems like a lot. My dealer only got like 20 or 30 and that’s Dallas Tx. 1 or 2 exotic dealers there as well

I meant 400 deposits.

 

[CanadianEmira]

However, with only 70 FE 1.0 being delivered to Canada, I highly doubt all of them are going to Vancouver.

Does anyone know where this statistic came from?

 

[Hell4Leather]

Does anyone know where this statistic came from?

Probably the same dartboard Lotus Marketing and Communications uses to determine delivery dates.

 

[CanadianEmira]

I do not disagree that on a per capita basis, for the size of population that Vancouver will surely be right up there, I even said in my original post I am not under estimating how many high end cars are sold over there in comparison. (I said top ten, maybe it's number 1) It is a lot from a per capita basis. But from a volume perspective, which is what we are discussing when saying Lotus of Van is getting over 10% of North American allocations for the Emira is just crazy talk. Will Lotus of Van get more allocations than say Gentry or John Scotti in Montreal, yes they probably will. But 70 +/- V1 F/E was the total allocation amount for Canada. Not possible they received it all.

I don't know about every car brand, but Porsche sells WAY more cars in the Montreal - Windsor corridor than in BC. Which is about 50% of the Canadian population. I am sure it's the same for Aston, Ferrari, Lambo etc.

Porsche Dealerships in BC - 4
Porsche Dealerships in Ontario/Quebec - 12 (soon to be 13)

Lotus Dealerships in BC - 1
Lotus Dealerships in Ontario/Quebec - 3

Ferrari has 4 dealerships in Canada - 3 in Ontario/Quebec and 1 in Van.

You can see the trend can't you..... Lotus of Van did NOT recieve any where near the allocations they said and are mis-leading customers.

No quarrel with any of this. The bulk of Canada's population is located in that relatively small region of Southern Quebec/Ontario. Logic would dictate that the bulk of luxury car sales would follow. I don't know how much the per capita figures in Vancouver translate in absolute terms. The fact that Porsche sells more out East may be a result of the weather out there, with people buying Macans with AWD in large numbers. Those same folks in Vancouver may well be buying Ferraris and Mclerans instead, so again, I'm not sure how representative the Porsche statistics are.

All this is to say is that it wouldn't surprise me if the luxury car purchases between Vancouver and Ontario/Quebec isn't closer to 1:1 in volume. The market in Vancouver really is that silly.

Still, that doesn't explain why the Vancouver dealership is saying they're getting the (entire ?) Canadian allotment. I'd believe them if they said they were getting half.

 

[Lotustoronto]

No quarrel with any of this. The bulk of Canada's population is located in that relatively small region of Southern Quebec/Ontario. Logic would dictate that the bulk of luxury car sales would follow. I don't know how much the per capita figures in Vancouver translate in absolute terms. The fact that Porsche sells more out East may be a result of the weather out there, with people buying Macans with AWD in large numbers. Those same folks in Vancouver may well be buying Ferraris and Mclerans instead, so again, I'm not sure how representative the Porsche statistics are.

All this is to say is that it wouldn't surprise me if the luxury car purchases between Vancouver and Ontario/Quebec isn't closer to 1:1 in volume. The market in Vancouver really is that silly.

Still, that doesn't explain why the Vancouver dealership is saying they're getting the (entire ?) Canadian allotment. I'd believe them if they said they were getting half.

If you start reading form the beginning of this thread and other US allocation threads it is very well documented with many Emira depositors receiving the same information about how many cars were coming into Canada. The 10% was told to me from my dealer and also when I asked Gentry at the Toronto Auto show they confirmed the same. They complained about so few cars coming into Canada and that they were given under 15 V1 F/E allocations at the time.

So yes I find it hard to believe Lotus of Van getting 77 V1 F/E. Of course no one really knows but the over whelming information points to 70 or so V1 F/E and probably 60 V2 F/E for the entire Canadian Market. I know you said it also does not make sense for them to say it and I think they are intentionally mis-leading customers to keep placing deposits. I do believe that dealers with more deposits will receive more allocations and this is the game they are playing. They want you to deposit so they get more allocations.

As a side note comparison - Porsche sold 250 718 Cayman Models in all of Canada in 2021. In fact the have never broken 350 in a year, ever. AND if you compare 718 sales to the US market, guess what?? It's about 10%-13% of what the US sells. I can assure you the people at Lotus look at these stats to figure out their allocation amounts and go after their target demographic. Which is the Porsche 718. If you think they are going to over saturate a market for no reason, believe me they won't. I can sit here and give overwhelming stats that would surely prove my point that Lotus of Van will not recieve 150 Emira's in 2024, but honestly I'm a little tired from golf.

As far as where the larger volume (not per capita) of sports cars / super cars are sold I will say it's still in Ontario/Quebec. People don't cross shop Macan's and Ferrari's. Mclaren has 3 dealers in Canda - 2 in ONT/Que and 1 in Van. Lambo has 3 dealers in Toronto/Montreal and 1 in Van.

Another Data Point on Auto trader there is 22 Mclarens for sale in Vancouver and 79 in Toronto/Montreal

Ferrari in Vancouver for sale 62 and 284 In Toronto/Montreal.

If Van sold more exotic cars than over here they would have shipped these cars over there. But they don't because the larger market is where the overwhelming larger population is.

I can keep giving data points but I don't know if it matters...

 

[CanadianEmira]

People don't cross shop Macan's and Ferrari's.

They do if there's snow involved half the year.

I can keep giving data points but I don't know if it matters...

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to prove at this point, but as I said above, I agree that Vancouver will not be getting anywhere close to 100% of the Canadian allocation.

 

[Lotustoronto]

They do if there's snow involved half the year.



I'm not sure what it is you're trying to prove at this point, but as I said above, I agree that Vancouver will not be getting anywhere close to 100% of the Canadian allocation.

I know... Sorry didn't mean for it to come off as an attacking rant... even tho it was a rant. I just get a little worked up over Dealer BS towards customers. Want to make sure the depositors have the best info to make their own judgements. Nothing against you at all and I apologize if it came off that way.

 

[FlyNavy01]

I spent yesterday and most of today in Vancouver, and while there are a silly amount of young, wealthy people with high end cars, I agree it's barely a fraction of cities like LA, Miami, or presumably Toronto, etc.

Per capita it may very well be number 1 in Canada or even North America, but that means nothing for dealership allocations since those will be based on actual sales numbers.

In related news, I took the opportunity to finally see Nimbus Grey with my own eyes at Cars and Coffee this morning thanks to Lotus Vancouver. I really enjoyed the perfect weather and stunning drive up the Sea to Sky Highway along with some good seat time in the car. Lovely city and surrounding area.

 

[CanadianEmira]

I know... Sorry didn't mean for it to come off as an attacking rant... even tho it was a rant. I just get a little worked up over Dealer BS towards customers. Want to make sure the depositors have the best info to make their own judgements. Nothing against you at all and I apologize if it came off that way.

Not to worry. I'm definitely frustrated with the lack of solid info too. I think we can say reliably that the info we're getting from Lotus Vancouver in terms of numbers is bogus.

I spent yesterday and most of today in Vancouver, and while there are a silly amount of young, wealthy people with high end cars, I agree it's barely a fraction of cities like LA, Miami, or presumably Toronto, etc.

Per capita it may very well be number 1 in Canada or even North America, but that means nothing for dealership allocations since those will be based on actual sales numbers.

The best info I've found is that nearly 1 out of every 4 supercars in Canada , and 1 out of every 3 classic cars (pre-1980 insured by Hagerty) are located in the Vancouver region. Metro Vancouver's population of about 2.6 million means that that roughly 1 out of every 14 Canadians live there. That's 3-4x more luxury vehicles than you would expect for its population, meaning it has about the same number of them as an average city of 7.5-10 million residents. Its per capita rate notwithstanding, that's a very significant volume. Certainly not "barely a fraction" of Toronto, which, incidentally, has a metro population right around the low end of that figure (6.3 million).

I chalk it up to a mixture of the weather and the city's high desirability amongst wealthy foreigners.

Glad you enjoyed the drive up today though. What did you think of Nimbus in person?