Emira alternatives

[Porter]

The C8 is an okay track car, but there are far more cars that are faster around VIR. C8's time = 2:49 which is 37th Here are some of the non-exotics' times
2023 BMW M4 CSL: 2:47.5
2017 Corvette C7 GS: 2:47.1
2018 Camaro ZL1: 2:45.7
2019 Camaro ZL1: 2:45.0
2015 C7 Z06: 2:44.6
2023 Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 RS: 2:40.5
Record holder: 2019 McLaren Senna: 2:34.9

Lotus has never been about speed. Rather, it has historically made lightweight cars that handle amazing well and are connected to the road better that just about every street-legal car, including exotics that cost many times what the Emira cost.

Not only that, if I wanted to set fast lap times I wouldn't be buying a street car, I'd buy a proper race car, or at least a track special like a Radical. If I want arbitrary lap times, trying to chase them in a street car is kind of a waste. They don't even have proper safety gear. And it's literally cheaper to buy an ex-works race car than it is to buy any of these track focused high end Porsches or McLarens.

What I want out of the Emira is engagement and fun on mountain roads in beautiful places. It's for me, for the joy of it, not for the ego.


FYI, here's a friend of mine's Radical. He bought it when he realized his GT3 was simply slow by comparison, and he could get the full experience for $25k-35k used.

 

[Concept24]

That is radical! I tend to do my racing on the street with a Bac Mono. Of course, it's in Forza Horizons 4 in England, I believe.

 

[VL3X]

Not only that, if I wanted to set fast lap times I wouldn't be buying a street car, I'd buy a proper race car, or at least a track special like a Radical. If I want arbitrary lap times, trying to chase them in a street car is kind of a waste. They don't even have proper safety gear. And it's literally cheaper to buy an ex-works race car than it is to buy any of these track focused high end Porsches or McLarens.

What I want out of the Emira is engagement and fun on mountain roads in beautiful places. It's for me, for the joy of it, not for the ego.


FYI, here's a friend of mine's Radical. He bought it when he realized his GT3 was simply slow by comparison, and he could get the full experience for $25k-35k used.

View attachment 23957

Those Radicals are awesome! My Subie tuner, Agile Auto in MD, built and raced a few of those over the years. Always liked checking them out in the shop. They've also got this Raver Motorsports SL-C.

 

[Porter]

Those Radicals are awesome! My Subie tuner, Agile Auto in MD, built and raced a few of those over the years. Always liked checking them out in the shop. They've also got this Raver Motorsports SL-C.

Love the Superlites. They have such a cool Group C style and look about them.

 

[d15b7]

Love the Superlites. They have such a cool Group C style and look about them.

I’ve driven a C8 Stingray Z51 on track and it was fantastic. Super SUPER easy to drive fast and no bad habits (it was totally stock everything except for track alignment done at the dealership). Unbelievably good car on track for ~$90k US. But no manual available, and I already own a Camaro ZL1 1LE, so I’m looking for a slower, more fun more engaging manual car (hence Emira). BUT - given that the C8 Z06 just did a 2:38.6 at this years Lightning Laps (puts it in the top 5 ever, and second and a half from being 2nd behind the Senna) it is an INSANELY good value. UNBELIEVABLE even. (look at the damn price difference in the top five - C8Z is multiples less expensive than the others!!! The C8Z is an LL3 car vs all the others up there are LL5!). The value is undeniable. And if you want a new naturally aspirated road and track weapon that can hold its own with the best of the best of the best for magnitudes less, then it’s the one to have.

 

[Porter]

I hear you, but it's only "insanely good value" if going faster on track in a street car is your objective. It's not mine.

I mean let's put this stuff in perspective. You can murder these lap times in any lightweight race car. Even a relatively cheap one.

 

[d15b7]

I hear you, but it's only "insanely good value" if going faster on track in a street car is your objective. It's not mine.

I mean let's put this stuff in perspective. You can murder these lap times in any lightweight race car. Even a relatively cheap one.

I’d agree 100% with you. But here’s another way of looking at it too - you can hop in your bone stock 100% C8Z (or GT3RS, or 675LT etc), drive to the track (enjoying the ride), run it all day long and be one of the fastest cars there (assuming you have talent) and drive to a nice restaurant, and drive home. Never even getting your hands dirty.

Or you can buy a truck. Buy a trailer. Load the racecar. Drive to the track. Unload and prepare. Do the track day. Reload up everything. Drive home. Unload everything.

The funny thing is - I’m in the truck/trailer/racecar camp 99% of the time. I race with the SCCA and NASA and VRG. often I’m hauling my vintage Super Seven or my Honda Civic (very highly modified 450+ whp EG Honda) all over the east coast racing. It’s a chore doing all that towing and loading / unloading and tons of extra service. I can totally see how if I wasn’t competing anymore, how I’d VERY much enjoy having a totally stock fully warranteed car to just drive and enjoy and out the smack down on pretty much anything else at an Advanced DE day.

Todd

PS after you factor in the cost of a nice truck and enclosed trailer and insurances on both abs the headaches involved - well the $130k C8Z (when they become more common at MSRP here, which they eventually will. They are producing as many as they can pump out) looks pretty attractive to me (and remember I’m the guy who trailers his racecars all over).

 

[Pugwash]

Just buy a Caterham.

 

[Concept24]

Remember that having race rubber on the street is not really practical on a frequently driven street car if you panic when it rains or when you have to foot a hyper-expensive bill to replace the tires, every 5000 miles.
So in the least, if you want a Z06 to be dual purpose, you'll probably still have to haul tires to the track. Can you fit them in the C8Z?

Side note: The C8Z that Car & Driver tested cost $166,205 WITHOUT any dealer markup. We were originally comparing a C8 to an Emira, assuming that they are similar in cost with options. The C8Z is not a good comparison value to an Emira, which has no added dealer markup for most of us.

 

[idleuser]

People coping hard in this thread. The C8Z is better than the Emira in every single way except

1) Looks
2) Manual transmission

The 2.0 FE doesn't even compete on price vs the bone stock C8Z in the US. But I would still rather have the Emira due to the engagement. Anyone else arguing about going fast in a hooptie is grasping for straw.

 

[Evotion]

The C8Z is better than the Emira in every single way except

1) Looks
2) Manual transmission

Even I would agree with this! Well, I don;t know about handling, Hard to believe anything can better an Emira on the road.

 

[Green]

People coping hard in this thread. The C8Z is better than the Emira in every single way except

1) Looks
2) Manual transmission

The 2.0 FE doesn't even compete on price vs the bone stock C8Z in the US. But I would still rather have the Emira due to the engagement. Anyone else arguing about going fast in a hooptie is grasping for straw.

Yep and the manual transmission and looks are deal breakers for me. I to would question driver feedback and fun factor on city roads.

 

[Porter]

Even I would agree with this! Well, I don;t know about handling, Hard to believe anything can better an Emira on the road.

The C8 handles beautifully, but not due to anything inherent about the chassis balance. It absolutely requires the electronic trickery of the active suspension for the thing to handle the way a driver would expect.

Source: I know the guy who helped GM with the active suspension control logic for the C7R and C8R race programs, and subsequently with the final tuning of the C8 road car. The latter came about when GM couldn't get it to handle predictably in panic braking and bad weather without terminal understeer as a side effect everywhere else. This was a big feedback item during pre-release testing with pro drivers and journalists.

The C8 in standard form handles well now obviously, but if you put passive dampers on that car it would be a mess without some really pro suspension tuning work to dial it in. It's not "right" by default the way a great chassis should be.

 

[Silver Storm]

And if this was available and pricing not out of reach, I would seriously consider the LFR over the Emira…

 

[Evotion]

New lightweight Giulia looks good!

 

[Concept24]

People coping hard in this thread. The C8Z is better than the Emira in every single way except

1) Looks
2) Manual transmission

The 2.0 FE doesn't even compete on price vs the bone stock C8Z in the US. But I would still rather have the Emira due to the engagement. Anyone else arguing about going fast in a hooptie is grasping for straw.

So steering feel of the Corvette is better? I would have to say, "not by a long shot!" At least when I compared that of the 2022 C8 and 2021 Evora GT. The Evora's steering feel is superior.

 

[GetawayDriving]

People coping hard in this thread. The C8Z is better than the Emira in every single way except

1) Looks
2) Manual transmission

The 2.0 FE doesn't even compete on price vs the bone stock C8Z in the US. But I would still rather have the Emira due to the engagement. Anyone else arguing about going fast in a hooptie is grasping for straw.

You said it yourself. The engagement. You can’t put that on a spec sheet, and that’s really what it boils down to. The Porsches are near perfect, I don’t want them either.

 

[dgrace]

As has been previously mentioned, the C8Z is in a completely different universe. And given they're trading hands over $200k that makes perfect sense. (yes I know you can get on a 5+year waitlist at MM or Ciocca for MSRP, good luck with that)

 

[hagen111]

I believe steering feel is great in Emira, but than screwed up by:

1. Enormously FAT and square steering wheel...I mean come on, if you are all about steering feel and then fit THIS!????
2. Suspension setup...it didn't feel great in the car I testdrove. It was to soft, and therefore the car could as well do with american steering aid and feel.

 

[Concept24]

I believe steering feel is great in Emira, but than screwed up by:

1. Enormously FAT and square steering wheel...I mean come on, if you are all about steering feel and then fit THIS!????
2. Suspension setup...it didn't feel great in the car I testdrove. It was to soft, and therefore the car could as well do with american steering aid and feel.

On a super tight corners' autocross, lightness rules. An 800 HP car that weighs 3600 lbs can be demolished by a far less powerful 2400 lb Miata.
Yes, the streets and highways CAN be advantageous for the powerful heavyweight of a sportscar, but where I live, a car like the Emira will be much more fun than the C8 Corvette. As I mentioned, I drove one for more than 160 miles. I could "feel" it's weight when rounding tight corners. Certainly, on VIR or the ring, it would beat the Emira or an MX5 Miata, but how many people drive like that on a daily basis?

I'll take the fun car, thank you.