How bad will the Emira depreciation be?

[FederGigant]

I like the Emira but, stating the obvious, apples to apples an Emira is not a GT3; it’s a Cayman

Great that you got the point

 

[Fasttoys]

Truth be told, I think “demand” has severely waned for Lotus. At every turn they are failing the customer, and those lured by the pretty faced Emira are jumping ship after seeing how CS, shitty build quality and issues, lack of communications and DELAYS run rampant with this company. You have the longtermers espousing how that’s “just good ol Lotus“, and the ones still holding out hope here in the states looking to be the first on the block to own one. The second wave of nightmares hasn’t even unfolded yet, as the support infrastructure is non existent

Based on your comments we will assume you’re out and focused on another brand and model. Owned 2011 Evora and my friend raced his 2011. The dealer network was worse and the construction was no were near the Emira. I called it the Frankenstein car, but it was problem free even my buddy who raced his.

 

[Rupes]

Truth be told, I think “demand” has severely waned for Lotus. At every turn they are failing the customer, and those lured by the pretty faced Emira are jumping ship after seeing how CS, shitty build quality and issues, lack of communications and DELAYS run rampant with this company. You have the longtermers espousing how that’s “just good ol Lotus“, and the ones still holding out hope here in the states looking to be the first on the block to own one. The second wave of nightmares hasn’t even unfolded yet, as the support infrastructure is non existent

I dunno, second owners won’t care about PR issues from the launch of the car, nor are the build quality issues you are talking about catastrophic to the car or widespread and unusual for a first year model car.

If anything, I think folks will latch onto the last and best of something from a perceived great brand. As Lotus continues to go “mainstream” the dealer network will improve too.

This is the hope anyway, but I suppose anything is possible.

 

[EyeFour Eemeerah!]

I dunno, second owners won’t care about PR issues from the launch of the car, nor are the build quality issues you are talking about catastrophic to the car or widespread and unusual for a first year model car.

If anything, I think folks will latch onto the last and best of something from a perceived great brand. As Lotus continues to go “mainstream” the dealer network will improve too.

This is the hope anyway, but I suppose anything is possible.

The fact that we’re talking about the used car market, for a car that hasn’t even hit the shores doesn’t bode well. Of course expectation is lower with the purchase of a used car, and one could really give two craps about what the original owner went through, but if a company has aspirations of going “mainstream”, Lotus is following a failing business plan.

 

[Steve24]

Personally I don’t think depreciation will be particularly bad, but if it is I couldn’t care less.
Like everyone else, I’ve lost money on most cars I’ve owned (properly had my pants pulled down on a couple of BMWs), and I’ve gained on a couple of others (Including tripling my money on one).

I find it odd that anyone is spending their time fretting about resale before they’ve even got their car. It’s a sports car, which is an indulgence by definition. It’s not an investment property or a share portfolio.

The Emira, being almost the last old school sports car money can buy, and also being extremely pretty and superb to drive, is IMO likely to suffer less depreciation than your average car.
Over the long term it may even appreciate.

But if I’m totally wrong about that, so what?

 

[Climber]

Personally I don’t think depreciation will be particularly bad, but if it is I couldn’t care less.
Like everyone else, I’ve lost money on most cars I’ve owned (properly had my pants pulled down on a couple of BMWs), and I’ve gained on a couple of others (Including tripling my money on one).

I find it odd that anyone is spending their time fretting about resale before they’ve even got their car. It’s a sports car, which is an indulgence by definition. It’s not an investment property or a share portfolio.

The Emira, being almost the last old school sports car money can buy, and also being extremely pretty and superb to drive, is IMO likely to suffer less depreciation than your average car.
Over the long term it may even appreciate.

But if I’m totally wrong about that, so what?

 

[Climber]

 

[Climber]

Pick your future if your a pessimist look at the first video.
If you and optimist look at the second video.
The lotus is an emotional purchase a supermodel, a drop dead Gorgeous creature the will make you smile, voiceover off I will be profoundly satisfying.
The porsche is the ration choice easy on the eyes easy to live with and very few compromises.
What are your really buying, a tool for a daily drive to the office and store, or something profoundly different. A toy to enjoy and a live childhoods dreams and taking pressure in the little details we forget as adults…
No body needs a toy or do we? It just maybe the healthy choice!! Inbrace your deepest desires…

 

[Newguy1354]

Personally I don’t think depreciation will be particularly bad, but if it is I couldn’t care less.
Like everyone else, I’ve lost money on most cars I’ve owned (properly had my pants pulled down on a couple of BMWs), and I’ve gained on a couple of others (Including tripling my money on one).

I find it odd that anyone is spending their time fretting about resale before they’ve even got their car. It’s a sports car, which is an indulgence by definition. It’s not an investment property or a share portfolio.

The Emira, being almost the last old school sports car money can buy, and also being extremely pretty and superb to drive, is IMO likely to suffer less depreciation than your average car.
Over the long term it may even appreciate.

But if I’m totally wrong about that, so what?

I think this car captivated a lot of people when it first came out. I believe there's quite a few people, like me, that are stretching their budgets to get this car and have been on a roller coaster ride since it's unveiling. That makes for concern when your plan is having to come to fruition 2 years later.

So for me I usually only hold on to cars for about a year, so I can experience various vehicles and their good or bad.
You have a situation now where my car is on a boat heading this way and I'm having to contend with higher interest rates, a slumping car market, and the added bonus of Lotus raising the price 10 grand.

Also, what is everyone's thoughts on all these Emiras getting released roughly at the same time now? Do we think that'll be a negative on price by "flooding" the market? Or a positive as they get shown more and possibly build interest from other people?

 

[Finbarqs]

But second hand… but definitely, I see it as Emiras can be replaced. Elise’s cannot

 

[Fasttoys]

I think this car captivated a lot of people when it first came out. I believe there's quite a few people, like me, that are stretching their budgets to get this car and have been on a roller coaster ride since it's unveiling. That makes for concern when your plan is having to come to fruition 2 years later.

So for me I usually only hold on to cars for about a year, so I can experience various vehicles and their good or bad.
You have a situation now where my car is on a boat heading this way and I'm having to contend with higher interest rates, a slumping car market, and the added bonus of Lotus raising the price 10 grand.

Also, what is everyone's thoughts on all these Emiras getting released roughly at the same time now? Do we think that'll be a negative on price by "flooding" the market? Or a positive as they get shown more and possibly build interest from other people?

I live in North Texas not far from you, I have owned over 60 cars and I am very active in the car market.. Anytime a manufacturer floods the market with a product it’s not good for values even though Lotus is low production car we won’t see significant price decreases. Rates are very high compared to this time last year, that will cause less people that can afford the car. Less people means less demand even if half the market could pay cash. Sports car Market has significantly slowed this year and will continue till Fed starts dropping rates next year. if you are a lucky one who got the lower price LE you have a 10k buffer. Even the Z06 & Porsche market are seeing a drop from the FoMo past. The values for the Evora, 400 & GT have held up nicely in the USA. This is not a good time to be a flipper, only a few will get lucky coming out of the gates but it will be very risky in this market.

 

[seriously]

If you only hold cars for a year I don’t see how you don’t lose money on a new car with very few exceptions like the Porsche GT products which are hard to get. If I only planned on keeping a car for a year I would only be looking at the used market and cars that are the lower end of their depreciation curves.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I think this car captivated a lot of people when it first came out. I believe there's quite a few people, like me, that are stretching their budgets to get this car and have been on a roller coaster ride since it's unveiling. That makes for concern when your plan is having to come to fruition 2 years later.

So for me I usually only hold on to cars for about a year, so I can experience various vehicles and their good or bad.
You have a situation now where my car is on a boat heading this way and I'm having to contend with higher interest rates, a slumping car market, and the added bonus of Lotus raising the price 10 grand.

Also, what is everyone's thoughts on all these Emiras getting released roughly at the same time now? Do we think that'll be a negative on price by "flooding" the market? Or a positive as they get shown more and possibly build interest from other people?

Flipping an Emira in a year from now will almost certainly take a loss. Will it be a huge loss? Probably not. I expect 15-20% to be the average. A lot can change and this will mostly depend on spec and base car pricing.

 

[Steve24]

If you only hold cars for a year I don’t see how you don’t lose money on a new car with very few exceptions like the Porsche GT products which are hard to get. If I only planned on keeping a car for a year I would only be looking at the used market and cars that are the lower end of their depreciation curves.

Exactly what I was going to say.
Anyone who routinely buys a new car and sells after a year is surely going to lose big time most of the time.
The Emira will likely be no different.

I think the enthusiasm for the car on release and the state of the market at the time encouraged a lot of potential flippers who are now feeling aggrieved because the car has been slow to arrive and conditions have radically changed.

However, those who keep their Emira for 5-10 years or more and look after it well I suspect will both enjoy the ownership experience and won’t lose much at all, if anything.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I will add in one more caveat to the depreciation bit - Lotus is clearly held back in terms of production numbers, and the Emira is clearly winning the hearts of enthusiasts and motoring journalists. They won their first GT4 race series in Macao a few weeks ago. But the biggest part is they are selling in larger numbers in markets that traditionally were never big on Lotus, specifically China and now selling Lotus Cars for the first time in India. At a max production of 5K +/- per year, once the i4's are released to ROW it will be interesting to see how much more trickles into North America. Our market is currently being filled at the expense of the UK/EU i4 debacle. Once that gets sorted, it seems the allocations for us will begin to slow right down going from 2024 into 2025. We have a healthy demand for the manual in North America, but a lot of other places want the i4 DCT. So yes the First edition V6 manual has been given an unexptected boost in allocations, but this will probably be short lived and supply will once again get constrained, IMO.

If i4's / Auto V6's weren't delayed into UK/EU, we would not see these extra allocations come in and even myself with a 2021 deposit would still be waiting for a base.

 

[hagen111]

Emira offers great value. It will depreciate over time as production continues and plenty of cars will come to the market. It's very logic. However I believe Emira's prices will stay strong compared to some other sports cars as it is already relatively low priced already compared to eg a 992 Porsche and still produced in lower numbers. My prediction (as in what the weather is going to be next year) is inflation will continue for some more years to come, as the printing/creation of money just continues... so new cars won't become 'cheaper'. I am hearing 992 GT3's and Turbo S are now arriving at dealers and remain unsold at current over list prices, you can expect those to fall. In the end it is a new demand vs stock equilibrium which needs to be found.

I have lost massive amounts of money on cars, especially on Ferrari's - the strongest brand! Why, because when buying you pay the dealers commission, when selling you get trade-in prices and all the BS about having to offer 24 power warranty to the next buyer.... there is always a BIG spread in when you want to get in and out of cars! Hardly ever I have been on the good side not loosing...its on cars bought and kept for 20 years - where you still loose because you should have invested the money in the stock market - and on a Ferrari 458 Spider, where I took the offer to find 6 months later the car had appreciated another 20k...and you still feel you have lost!

So I try to not worry about it too much, and focus on making money, which compensates for the losses ;-)

My few cents...

 

[K_Squared]

Emira offers great value. It will depreciate over time as production continues and plenty of cars will come to the market. It's very logic. However I believe Emira's prices will stay strong compared to some other sports cars as it is already relatively low priced already compared to eg a 992 Porsche and still produced in lower numbers. My prediction (as in what the weather is going to be next year) is inflation will continue for some more years to come, as the printing/creation of money just continues... so new cars won't become 'cheaper'. I am hearing 992 GT3's and Turbo S are now arriving at dealers and remain unsold at current over list prices, you can expect those to fall. In the end it is a new demand vs stock equilibrium which needs to be found.

I have lost massive amounts of money on cars, especially on Ferrari's - the strongest brand! Why, because when buying you pay the dealers commission, when selling you get trade-in prices and all the BS about having to offer 24 power warranty to the next buyer.... there is always a BIG spread in when you want to get in and out of cars! Hardly ever I have been on the good side not loosing...its on cars bought and kept for 20 years - where you still loose because you should have invested the money in the stock market - and on a Ferrari 458 Spider, where I took the offer to find 6 months later the car had appreciated another 20k...and you still feel you have lost!

So I try to not worry about it too much, and focus on making money, which compensates for the losses ;-)

My few cents...

I very much agree with this. I've been very fortunate with my car ownership where I've gained on a few cars but they were much, much cheaper and somewhat rare cars that I was able to sell more for a year or two later. In almost all cases, cars are a depreciating asset (especially new ones). The past 2-3 years has been a historical aberration and hopefully most of us are looking to drive the Emira and enjoy it, not to make money off of it.

Try not to let worry about the Emira's depreciation steal your joy of owning, looking at, and of course, driving it!

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[Hobiedick]

Just got a valuation from We Buy Any Car for my Emira which was registered 30th March, 2800 miles and has never run for very long without problems, the HVAC is not working properly at the moment so it wont demist the windscreen, I have put it in my garage as it is a pain will get it out when the weather is better. £50450

 

[K_Squared]

Just got a valuation from We Buy Any Car for my Emira which was registered 30th March, 2800 miles and has never run for very long without problems, the HVAC is not working properly at the moment so it wont demist the windscreen, I have put it in my garage as it is a pain will get it out when the weather is better. £50450

Those places are almost always a rip-off and I don't consider them an indicator of the second hand market (at least here in the USA). I've been offered numbers like $3-4K for a vehicle that I then proceeded to sell easily in the used market for twice that amount.

At one time I requested a value of my current car (BMW 340i) out of curiosity and they offered me $20K when they were selling for above $35K for many similar examples. This wasn't We Buy Any Cars but it was CarMax and other similar "we buy your car" companies.

 

[Hobiedick]

Those places are almost always a rip-off and I don't consider them an indicator of the second hand market (at least here in the USA). I've been offered numbers like $3-4K for a vehicle that I then proceeded to sell easily in the used market for twice that amount.

At one time I requested a value of my current car (BMW 340i) out of curiosity and they offered me $20K when they were selling for above $35K for many similar examples. This wasn't We Buy Any Cars but it was CarMax and other similar "we buy your car" companies.

Even if it is £10k low that is a massive drop considering it was £82k 9 months ago!!!! especially as it has spent a lot of time not working properly.