How many crossed shopped the GT4?

[MCS]

I was a little underwhelmed when I test drive a 981 GT4 a few years ago. I also found the clutch super heavy and not pleasant to use. It was good but not up to the hype in my view.

As for dealerships I use Porsche Guildford (UK) and they have always been great with me. I’ve always been treated extremely well there, although I certainly wouldn’t get a new GT car allocation either.

 

[PaulP]

Maybe your experience is different, but you will literally be laughed out of the dealership if you expect to pay only 20k over the emira cost for a spyder here. Gonna be 2-3x that if you can get one at all. Same LOLs when people talk about the base price of a GT4.

 

[Pegasi]

You can get a GT4/Spyder @MSRP and it has been noted on this forum by myself and verified by another member or two that it is possible.

EDIT: Not in California probably. Unfortunate for you.

Yes indeed. I have a deposit down on an MSRP GT4. I placed it a couple of weeks ago. It's just about mid-engine manual ICE for me at this point. Everyone has different circumstances though. Some people can rattle off several mid-engine cars they have owned so they may be a little picky. I haven't even driven or ridden in one. So if I want new it's Emira or GT4. And with the long wait by the time I get the car I will get a sleeping bag and spend the night in it.

EDIT: Jeez, I forgot I just tracked an Evora GT a few weeks ago. That was one of the main reasons I went ahead with the GT4.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Maybe your experience is different, but you will literally be laughed out of the dealership if you expect to pay only 20k over the emira cost for a spyder here. Gonna be 2-3x that if you can get one at all. Same LOLs when people talk about the base price of a GT4.

If anyone thinks that the mark-ups dealers have put on cars in the last 12-16 months is going to continue - that is laughable. It's going to drop harder than the S&P 500 did this month. By this fall I suspect you will begin to see a lot more inventory pop up for "lightly" used Spyder's and GT4's (@ MSRP or slightly above) and getting one with very low mileage compared to a new Emira (still 20K more than an Emira tho). I may be wrong, but that is my humble opinion. The first GT4 had a 1 year production run. The 718's has had 4 years already maybe a 5th coming, That's around 12-15K cars for North American market so far with more coming (GT4/Spyder) and the GT4RS/SpyderRS for another 2 year run. These aren't 911 R's or 991 Speedster limited editions, where there is maybe a few hundred of each shipped into NA.

I guess my question is - does Lotus represent a more exotic brand than Porsche? Not just rarer, that is obvious. But exotic in not only looks but in actual driving feel and experience (compared to GT4/Spyder). I find Porsche cars in general to be more livable daily, but at the cost of feeling less "special". Would love to hear from previous Evora owners that may have also owned/driven P cars in the past for there thoughts.

 

[akhbhaat]

I owned a 981 GT4 for about two years. I found it to be an exceptional track car, but underwhelming in most other contexts. Gearing is tall, power curve is wonky: flat spot in the middle and then drops off again over the last 1000-1500 revs, rather than pulling ever harder to the cutoff like it should. Even on track, I had some gripes about the rear suspension in particular: tail wag under hard braking and a tendency to bump steer on less-than-ideal surfaces. On the street, it's actually fairly easy and comfortable to drive, but the trade off is that I found it too soft and not enough of an event (these are general modern Porsche characteristics; that's fine for a Carrera S but I was hoping the GT4 would be more hardcore than it actually is).

The 718 version (have also driven this on track and on the street) isn't substantially different. Much better engine that pulls to redline, but otherwise it's the same chassis, the same brakes, and they also rounded off more of the edges (softer steering and clutch, severely muted exhaust note) so it's even more bland to drive at a casual pace. IMO get the 981 at a 40-50k (USD) discount if you want a GT4. Bit more visceral all-around; tons of them with 10k miles and you can practically self-warranty on the returns from the differential alone.

"Special" depends upon your frame of reference, along with what you like and want. To me, an Exige is special, and a Ferrari 360 is special. A 997 GT3 RS is also special. The GT4 is...a capable modern Porsche that loosely simulates what it's like to drive an older Porsche. Not terribly special. I thought the Evora GT pretty comprehensively bested it from a raw smiles-per-mile standpoint at street legal speeds, but I went with the Porsche anyhow because I had concerns about parts and service given all the track use I was planning.

I'm here because I'm thinking about replacing said GT4 with an Emira, so take that for what it's worth.

 

[switchlanez]

^That's almost selling me to a GT4 again which was my aspirational car in the mid 2010s. I've heard the same about the 981 being the more visceral version. Handsome styling was excellent but never enough to get me emotionally obsessed. For cars in general, a prerequisite to make them worth the purchase is that irrational infatuation with some quirk or characteristic. I experience this all the time for cars that are objectively inferior to others except for that immeasurable "x" or "it" factor. Not saying the Emira is inferior but its characterful Lotus intagibles--ones that lack formal metrics--combined with knockout styling edge it over the GT4. I admired the GT4 when it came out. But that might be because it filled a special void where no other cars existed and had TINA (There Is No Alternative) by default. Enter the Emira with its attractive force so strong it knocks the GT4 out of its void or creates its own new void and TINA. No more admiring the GT4's clinical prowess by default. Objectively, the delta between the two cars is probably small enough that the deciding factor can only be left to purely subjective preference.

I watched this vid this morning. He makes valid points but the whole time I was thinking I'd only do that if I caved in to impatience and would have massive buyer's remorse once the Emira hit the streets:

 

[roundincircles]

I sold my 2 year old GT4 718 last week for a small premium over rsp.

It was a brilliant car in many ways. Analogue with a naturally aspirated engine and manual short-throw box and easy clutch. It engaged you as you kept it in the torque band and it snorted at high revs. Fabulous torque engine full of creamy character. I ordered a GTS to replace it, much softer for touring on crap European roads.

My Emira v6 auto arrives July/August so it will be interesting to compare....the rear damping on the GT4 was firm!

 

[emiraspain]

I sold my 2 year old GT4 718 last week for a small premium over rsp.

It was a brilliant car in many ways. Analogue with a naturally aspirated engine and manual short-throw box and easy clutch. It engaged you as you kept it in the torque band and it snorted at high revs. Fabulous torque engine full of creamy character. I ordered a GTS to replace it, much softer for touring on crap European roads.

My Emira v6 auto arrives July/August so it will be interesting to compare....the rear damping on the GT4 was firm!

try a caterham /westfield for a real short throw . or the english cricketers ...

 

[p.rob]

I was thinking about keeping my 981 GT4 along side the Emira, but with the official announcement of the Manual Supra, I've decided to trade in the GT4 when the Emira arrives and ordered a 2023 Supra with manual transmission.

Hopefully the Emira will be awsome enough that I don't miss the GT4

 

[Climber]

I have never owned a lotus. At the time of the Esprit's and F355's (my favorite two cars from that era) I always wanted a lotus. It had a more exclusive feel to it, and if you owned a lotus you were more of a car guy than owning a ferrari because you appreciated the capabilities over the brand name. Moving forward to the current times, when I am doing well enough for myself to be able to afford these toys, I am very disappointed with porsche. My cousin has 6 911's, my brother has a 991.1 S, my best friend has a 996 gt3 and an '84 911, my other friend has 993 turbo and a 993 targa, who are on display at Porsche of Austin. I love porsches, they are fine cars, but they are not exotics, and the prices that are being asked are ridiculous. A few years ago I could go to the Porsche dealer and pick almost any car off the showroom and leave. I don't know what happened to the world, but it seems that everyone got rich all off a sudden, and everyone is able to buy a porsche, and that created a huge demand. Instead of increasing production to meet the numbers, I feel that porch figured they can make more profit without the cost of more production by creating more of a demand by throttling production.
I went to porsche before I ordered the Emira, and they told me it was a 2 year wait for a run of the mill 911S, and they are not taking orders at the moment, and even if they did, they move previous owners ahead of you even if you order ahead of them. But what irked me the most, was the snobbiness of the sales guy. He could have told me all of this with a humble attitude, and looked a little apologetic for not being able to provide me with a product that they should have. Instead, this guy who is a sales guy on the floor at a car dealer ship, looks down at me with disdain as if I am inferior to him, kinda like "get out of here peasant, we don't serve your kind over here."
That is the attitude that will cost Porsche in the long run. We bought an X5 two years ago, we are trading it in for an X7 now because we need the third row, I put an order for an M8 coupe, and waiting to see what the new 7 Series will be like. I am not trying to show off, I am trying to show that I am a serious car buyer, probably more serious than most porsche owners, but they have lost my business. I used to be a mercedes guy, but Mercedes of Austin has the same attitude as porsche, and I have been buying a new BMW every two years since 2013, because my sales guy is awesome. I told my wife that if Chris moves to Hyundai, we will start driving Hyundai's. That is how important the buying experience is.

I purchased my last Porsche in Houston because of what you just said!!!
Most powerful way to vote, vote with your feet

 

[Magicman]

I owned a 981 GT4 for about two years. I found it to be an exceptional track car, but underwhelming in most other contexts. Gearing is tall, power curve is wonky: flat spot in the middle and then drops off again over the last 1000-1500 revs, rather than pulling ever harder to the cutoff like it should. Even on track, I had some gripes about the rear suspension in particular: tail wag under hard braking and a tendency to bump steer on less-than-ideal surfaces. On the street, it's actually fairly easy and comfortable to drive, but the trade off is that I found it too soft and not enough of an event (these are general modern Porsche characteristics; that's fine for a Carrera S but I was hoping the GT4 would be more hardcore than it actually is).

The 718 version (have also driven this on track and on the street) isn't substantially different. Much better engine that pulls to redline, but otherwise it's the same chassis, the same brakes, and they also rounded off more of the edges (softer steering and clutch, severely muted exhaust note) so it's even more bland to drive at a casual pace. IMO get the 981 at a 40-50k (USD) discount if you want a GT4. Bit more visceral all-around; tons of them with 10k miles and you can practically self-warranty on the returns from the differential alone.

"Special" depends upon your frame of reference, along with what you like and want. To me, an Exige is special, and a Ferrari 360 is special. A 997 GT3 RS is also special. The GT4 is...a capable modern Porsche that loosely simulates what it's like to drive an older Porsche. Not terribly special. I thought the Evora GT pretty comprehensively bested it from a raw smiles-per-mile standpoint at street legal speeds, but I went with the Porsche anyhow because I had concerns about parts and service given all the track use I was planning.

I'm here because I'm thinking about replacing said GT4 with an Emira, so take that for what it's worth.

I think your 981 gt4 must have been broken nothing like my experience of mine, fabulously balanced on road with linear power delivery, does need you to keep on top of the revs but once your brains recalibrated for what gear you'll need just not found it an issue.
It does move around underneath you but manages to do so without ever feeling of balance or out of control.
Just raw enough to feel special without being a pain to live with.
I will sorely miss mine and the Emira needs to be a special thing.

I've only owned 1 lotus, an S1 elise and we did not get on, I'd go so far as to say the most disappointing of the 45 cars I've owned.

Different strokes eh.

 

[Cachaco131]

I think your 981 gt4 must have been broken nothing like my experience of mine, fabulously balanced on road with linear power delivery, does need you to keep on top of the revs but once your brains recalibrated for what gear you'll need just not found it an issue.
It does move around underneath you but manages to do so without ever feeling of balance or out of control.
Just raw enough to feel special without being a pain to live with.
I will sorely miss mine and the Emira needs to be a special thing.

I've only owned 1 lotus, an S1 elise and we did not get on, I'd go so far as to say the most disappointing of the 45 cars I've owned.

Different strokes eh.

So why are you coming back to Lotus?

 

[Magicman]

So why are you coming back to Lotus?

Because the emira is stunning and I'm hopeful the Emira will do what its been designed to do, compete in a new market for lotus. I don't see it as remotely aimed at elise owners.

In fact unfortunately for current lotus customers I'm not sure it's aimed at a large majority of you either and I suspect many of you may find it's lack of rawness a little disappointing. But I'm only guessing here.

 

[Cachaco131]

Because the emira is stunning and I'm hopeful the Emira will do what its been designed to do, compete in a new market for lotus. I don't see it as remotely aimed at elise owners.

In fact unfortunately for current lotus customers I'm not sure it's aimed at a large majority of you either and I suspect many of you may find it's lack of rawness a little disappointing. But I'm only guessing here.

I see. I agree the rawness is not to be expected. I just hope the feel (suspension, steering) and "drama" is there. I was not in love with the GT4 when I drove it. Hopefully the Emira will impress more.

 

[akhbhaat]

I think your 981 gt4 must have been broken nothing like my experience of mine, fabulously balanced on road with linear power delivery, does need you to keep on top of the revs but once your brains recalibrated for what gear you'll need just not found it an issue.
It does move around underneath you but manages to do so without ever feeling of balance or out of control.
Just raw enough to feel special without being a pain to live with.
I will sorely miss mine and the Emira needs to be a special thing.

I've only owned 1 lotus, an S1 elise and we did not get on, I'd go so far as to say the most disappointing of the 45 cars I've owned.

Different strokes eh.

Oh, it definitely is broken now, and that's why I no longer have it.

Regardless, all of the issues I pointed out are well documented, especially the power curve backed by a plethora of dyno curves. It's not terribly apparent in isolation, but if driven back-to-back with the 718 it becomes very obvious. The rear suspension is another notable issue, impossible to miss on track at higher speeds if you're really making use of the brakes. Can be mitigated with toe links and a damper tune, but in the end you still have a strut suspension in the rear. You won't (or shouldn't) ever have issues with it well inside the limits on a public road. For better or worse, the car is super composed there.

I liked it overall but as mentioned, to my taste there were still too many compromises for a dedicated track/weekend car. Storage space, etc, was not important to me, and coming from older Porsches, I wanted to put in more work to drive it. I might have felt differently if I used it frequently as a daily driver or road car where the refinement would be appreciated--I do agree with your point that in general, it was just raw enough to stand out without being a pain. Wouldn't be opposed to getting another at some point, but if the Emira turns out to be as special as I hope, maybe not.

 

[klho001]

Not the GT4, cross shopped the GTS and still am on the fence pending eventual test drive. Am smitten by the flat 6 4L and the overall package; the soon to be discontinued ice cayman platform makes it that much more intriguing. Interestingly the Porsche dealer in SG (land of the high car $$$) doesn’t hv the shitty exp you might think so it really comes down to the car itself. ive said it before if the hardest decision I’m making is GTS vs Emira, I’m a lucky guy

 

[Tonyshepp]

Not the GT4, cross shopped the GTS and still am on the fence pending eventual test drive. Am smitten by the flat 6 4L and the overall package; the soon to be discontinued ice cayman platform makes it that much more intriguing. Interestingly the Porsche dealer in SG (land of the high car $$$) doesn’t hv the shitty exp you might think so it really comes down to the car itself. ive said it before if the hardest decision I’m making is GTS vs Emira, I’m a lucky guy

I'm thinking it's going to be a close call between a win to the Cayman GTS or the Emira. If the Lotus is even a very close second I will be happy.

 

[digilotus]

Emira has better suspension (double wishbones vs coilovers), better steering feel (hydraulic vs electric), better exhaust sound (no PPF vs PPF), better manual gear ratios (just right vs too long) and much better looks. Not sure how a GTS is superior.

 

[emiraspain]

Emira has better suspension (double wishbones vs coilovers), better steering feel (hydraulic vs electric), better exhaust sound (no PPF vs PPF), better manual gear ratios (just right vs too long) and much better looks. Not sure how a GTS is superior.

Tried and tested.... higher red line..faster acceleration.......lighter car (dont trust porsches numbers, they always ere on side of caution and UK companies the opposite) ..proven chassis which the reviewers rate as just about the best... more luggage space (or well more in the convertible at least)... better app..ie it has one, you can see where you car is, helping antitheft issues, a better automatic gear box they have about the best (I prefer manual), more colours, warranty.... ? hoping lotus will do 3 years EU wide, and nice italian coffee and english biscuits at the dealerships.
I am no expert, far from it, but I am SURE this comparison by autocar will be VERY VERY close..... looks wise, the emira wins hands down, however, thats as it is competing with a design thats like 7-8 years old!!! but its wider which on narrow roads is not great. Where I live, costal roads, it will be a waste of time to be honest but could not refuse it....
I expect with the GTS for them to be neck and neck, but with the GT4 I imagine most reviewers would prefer the GT4, we shall see. I dont care to be honest, as again, the GTs/4 718 is looking dated and the interior even more so and I refuse to pay 70/90k for a car thats not been updated in 8 years ish.
I expect the next "718" electric to look stunning, if they are brave enough to step away from the philosophy of integrate, not differentiate, evolve not revolve, get fat not thin, make money on extras not on the base model, encourage flipping, kiss the xxxx of high end customers and screw those new ones.... something along those lines, but "BOTH are great cars", i am 100% sure the review will come back with this.

 

[roundincircles]

I'm thinking it's going to be a close call between a win to the Cayman GTS or the Emira. If the Lotus is even a very close second I will be happy.

Wouldn't surprise me if there are some fence-sitters......we can't upset our relationship with mighty Porsche......but equally some will laud the Emira......because Lotus needs our support!

The key elements for me, - how it handles, how it rides, wots the box like, is the driving position good for lanky buggers and does it have a thrilling sound.